Union Decides To Kill Jobs

[tnek]

The last person pointed out what everyone else has missed. International is trying to force the wage cuts and local is refusing to bend. I think a lot of it has to do with what they've seen in the past few years. New castle, Indianapolis foundry, Delphi, just to name a few. Local unions are getting fed up with the greed of the international union and they are taking a stand.

Another thing. Everyone wants to blame Chrysler for their problems, but they forget that Daimler bought Chrysler, raped and pillaged them, and then tossed them out. Is it the worker's fault? We've made numerous concessions and we will make a lot more before it's over.

As a former 685 guy I took my own future in my hands, took the first round of buyouts and got OUT of the worthless union. I get sick of who ass raped who. What about Bob Eaton?? What about the local and all the underhanded poo they have done. What about toads like R fatacre and his kind of fat hogs at the trough? What about having to have meetings in Vegas where there isnt one car plant but plenty of slots, sluts and sun?
I wont stand up for Diamler but they did bring a new plant to the white trash capital of Indiana and were trying to build another a few miles down the road. But they did raid the piggy bank.
Bottem line is we are responsible for our own self. If it takes a communist organization like a union count me out. Been there done that.

 

[Rookie]

There are no excuses for any of them. Like my dad says, "it's company's greed that formed unions and it's going to be the union's greed that drives them out." I work for a union, I am far from pro union, but I get tired of hearing people who don't have the first clue bashing on union members. Most people I know go to work and do their job to the best of their ability. It's the lazy scum that give us a bad name. I would love to see them gone, but people don't realize that the union HAS to (by law) fight for their job.

The international union is nothing more than a corrupt political party whose only interest is their wallet. They get paid more if we make more - that's why we took concessions everywhere but our pay.

Someone is bound to make some smart comment about quitting - I will be more than happy to quit if they are willing to match what I'm making. BTW - does anyone honestly believe that prices would drop if every union member took a 50% pay cut when you consider our wages are only a small fraction (10%) of the cost?

Union says labor is only 10 percent of car costs - Democratic Underground

 

[localone]

There are no excuses for any of them. Like my dad says, "it's company's greed that formed unions and it's going to be the union's greed that drives them out." I work for a union, I am far from pro union, but I get tired of hearing people who don't have the first clue bashing on union members. Most people I know go to work and do their job to the best of their ability. It's the lazy scum that give us a bad name. I would love to see them gone, but people don't realize that the union HAS to (by law) fight for their job.

The international union is nothing more than a corrupt political party whose only interest is their wallet. They get paid more if we make more - that's why we took concessions everywhere but our pay.

Someone is bound to make some smart comment about quitting - I will be more than happy to quit if they are willing to match what I'm making. BTW - does anyone honestly believe that prices would drop if every union member took a 50% pay cut when you consider our wages are only a small fraction (10%) of the cost?

Union says labor is only 10 percent of car costs - Democratic Underground

I have buddies working for Ford assembly plant who took the 100k buyouts...The were told by the union heads dont do it...AND THEY DID...AND WERE THE FIRST TO COMPLAIN WHEN THE RECIEVED THERE BUYOUT CHECKS FOR 63K (all the taxes taken out)..Now after 2 years the moneys gone and they have no back up plan....there jobs were replaced by lower paid employees and guess what the prices of the vehicles went up..It doesnt matter what the employee makes the comsumer will not reap the benifits.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If things were slow and you were keeping up with demand working 7 on 7 off why would they want you to work more days.



Show me the Links.

I expect because if we were working 5/2 the company could have accepted more work (weekends were pretty quiet, as I recall). Attrition from dis-satisfied employees going elsewhere might have winnowed the numbers a bit as well.


As to my comment about teachers and State Police getting screwed by the GM bankruptcy, our Indiana government sued (or is suing) because the Teachers and State Police pension funds were invested in secured stock, which the bankruptcy judge, disregarding all bankruptcy laws (as I understand it) disregarded in approving the bankruptcy. Secured creditors are the first ones to be dealt with in a bankruptcy; they were frozen out and the union was given a big share of the company instead.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

For various reasons, buying a new car has become unaffordable, at least for me. The last new vehicle I purchased was in 1984 and I doubt I'll ever purchase a new one again. Who can afford to pay 25% of their paycheck to buy a car? Part of the reason new cars are so expensive is the government safety and environmental standards which have been mandated; part of the increases are costs of materials; but I've always been told that HR costs (pay & benefits) are about 60% of the price of doing business. Another poster mentioned that costs to hire union workers instead of nonunion workers were about doubled. It's hard to be able to compete with that sort of disadvantage.

I was talking to my wife about this subject last night. Her grandfather was an Irish emmigre who brought his family to Chicago and fought for a union for the Steelworkers. As soon as they were successful, he got a visit from a local Mob boss wanting a cut. When he refused, the Mob beat him almost to death. Union bosses and organized crime have been interlinked for a long time.

I've no doubt that many union workers are hard-working and just want to do the job they're being paid for, but outsiders quickly get a bellyful of the work rules unions set up to protect their jobs. I know I did and so did my wife, when she briefly worked for a union.

You union champions are welcome to make the choices you think are best, but your leadership and your culture are quickly pricing you out of the market and your numbers will continue to shrink until you change that leadership and culture.

 

[Hotdoger]

What law says you can only work one job?

.

Federal DOT laws restrict one from work hours from other jobs. That is why UPS and Fedex drivers are not allowed to have other jobs.
I think there are also same restrictions on airline pilots.

 

[Hotdoger]

There are no excuses for any of them. Like my dad says, "it's company's greed that formed unions and it's going to be the union's greed that drives them out." I work for a union, I am far from pro union, but I get tired of hearing people who don't have the first clue bashing on union members. Most people I know go to work and do their job to the best of their ability. It's the lazy scum that give us a bad name. I would love to see them gone, but people don't realize that the union HAS to (by law) fight for their job.

The international union is nothing more than a corrupt political party whose only interest is their wallet. They get paid more if we make more - that's why we took concessions everywhere but our pay.

Someone is bound to make some smart comment about quitting - I will be more than happy to quit if they are willing to match what I'm making. BTW - does anyone honestly believe that prices would drop if every union member took a 50% pay cut when you consider our wages are only a small fraction (10%) of the cost?

Union says labor is only 10 percent of car costs - Democratic Underground

10% is BS . The Big3s older work force costs more.
They gave away the store on legecy benifts. Ford did better with spin offs.
That is why foreign companies are still in kicking the big 3 butts and GM is now Obamamotors and taxpayers got the shaft.

 

[tnek]

Using the democratic underground is like trusting HCI for acurate facts in the gun control debate.

 

[Rookie]

10% is BS . The Big3s older work force costs more.
They gave away the store on legecy benifts. Ford did better with spin offs.
That is why foreign companies are still in kicking the big 3 butts and GM is now Obamamotors and taxpayers got the shaft.

I showed you a source that backed up my statement. Feel free to post something showing it's more or less than 10%

 

[Rookie]

Using the democratic underground is like trusting HCI for acurate facts in the gun control debate.

CBS News Mobile: Story

 

[tnek]

CBS News Mobile: Story

CBS,, Deomocratic Underground, all the same. Did Dan Blather do the story? I wont even open a link for the Communist Broadcasting System.

Both orgainizations are blatantly Anti-American and Anti-Gun

 

[BloodEclipse]

GM meets Toyota on pay costs | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

 

[Rookie]

CBS,, Deomocratic Underground, all the same. Did Dan Blather do the story? I wont even open a link for the Communist Broadcasting System.

Both orgainizations are blatantly Anti-American and Anti-Gun

UAW strikes Chrysler after marathon talks fail - Oct. 10, 2007

 

[Bosshoss]

Did they actually have a need for the extra labor or did they have 2 guys turning the same screw driver instead of one? .

The marion plant hired temp help this year because they were shorthanded. Skilled trades are borrowed to drive fork trucks and work the line when needed. The unions have changed a lot in the last few years at least at the local level(I won't comment about the top level because I don't have any knowledge about what happens at that level). The marion plant is getting a lot of work and that is because of the work ethics of its people and the union and management relationship. Unions are not perfect but neither is management, or you or I. I hate a lot of the things unions let happen, but I have seen lazy people and drunks and trouble makers at non union jobs also. 98% of the people there are there to work, not sleep play cards or surf the internet on their iphone

As to my comment about teachers and State Police getting screwed by the GM bankruptcy, our Indiana government sued (or is suing) because the Teachers and State Police pension funds were invested in secured stock, which the bankruptcy judge, disregarding all bankruptcy laws (as I understand it) disregarded in approving the bankruptcy. Secured creditors are the first ones to be dealt with in a bankruptcy; they were frozen out and the union was given a big share of the company instead.

Lots of people lost money when the stock market crashed. The stock market is a gambel and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Funny how nobody complains when the make money on stocks but let them lose some and look out. They should have pulled out. It is not GM's or the unions fault they weren't smart enough to get out.

 

[dross]

Lots of people lost money when the stock market crashed. The stock market is a gambel and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Funny how nobody complains when the make money on stocks but let them lose some and look out. They should have pulled out. It is not GM's or the unions fault they weren't smart enough to get out.

You're missing the point. These people didn't lose because the market crashed. They lost because the government stepped in and changed the rules. They invested under certain rules which are that secured creditors are the first in line. The government stepped in and put the unions ahead of the secured creditors.

You take a calculated risk when you invest. Your calculations are based on the rules under which you invest. You shouldn't have to risk that the government would change the rules under which you made your decision AFTER the the fact.

That's not a "risk", that's stealing from a group of people to give to another group that supported you in the election.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

(Snipped for relevance)

Lots of people lost money when the stock market crashed. The stock market is a gambel and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Funny how nobody complains when the make money on stocks but let them lose some and look out. They should have pulled out. It is not GM's or the unions fault they weren't smart enough to get out.

Did you not understand that the law says secured creditors get paid first?

Obama's administration strong-armed the creditors and the bankruptcy judge let them do it. I heard some of you pro-union folks talking about "an agreement is an agreement". Buying secured stocks is an agreement with the company backed up by the law. In this case the judge disregarded the laws. Indiana and other states who had pension funds invested in these corporations are sueing for the rights of the secured investors, which were violated by the bankruptcy judgment.

 

[Ogre]

The way I understood this, They could vote for the wage cuts at which time they may have a job for an indefinate amount of time, they would also lose their contract with GM. OR they could decline the offer and under their current contract be first in line for any openings at other GM plants. Who's to say many of these folks wouldn't be willing to risk a few months of income for the real possibility of transfering to another plant at their current wage and benefit. Take the nasty "U" word (union) out of the story and I think many people would likely opt for the same course of action.
I don't like unions any more than many of you on this board, but it's far to easy to go on the minimal headline version of this story and immediately bash these workers and the union. If it were me, I would hold out, try to get on at another plant, and get a temp. job in the meantime.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The way I understood this, They could vote for the wage cuts at which time they may have a job for an indefinate amount of time, they would also lose their contract with GM. OR they could decline the offer and under their current contract be first in line for any openings at other GM plants. Who's to say many of these folks wouldn't be willing to risk a few months of income for the real possibility of transfering to another plant at their current wage and benefit. Take the nasty "U" word (union) out of the story and I think many people would likely opt for the same course of action.
I don't like unions any more than many of you on this board, but it's far to easy to go on the minimal headline version of this story and immediately bash these workers and the union. If it were me, I would hold out, try to get on at another plant, and get a temp. job in the meantime.

I don't disagree with what you've said here, but this economy hasn't been friendly for various types of jobs since 2008. My best friend is a CPA with a Masters Degree in Business. He was the CFO at the Mitsubishi plant in Franklin until they closed down. He couldn't find a comparable job for over two years. The next job he had, working for a salvage operation, lasted only 9 months. He was out of work for another two years. He finally got a job that he thinks will last him until he can retire. What's he doing? Working for the federal government.

My daughter-in-law was working in IT at a bank in 2008. She got laid off and it took her about 15 months to find another job.

My point is this: people can make their own decisions, but the market for skilled factory workers (of the automobile persuasion) is down right now. It may get better, but it will probably get worse, mainly because the feds have stuck their noses into the soup. In this climate, and after past experiences of my own, I'd have taken the pay cut to keep my job.

If you hear me bash unions (and you will) it's mainly because their leadership is too stupid to accurately gauge the fine line between corporate profit and corporate greed. If they worked with their corporate bosses to maximize productivity, profits, and pay and benefits; if they understood that in order for their standard of living to keep increasing, the corporation has to continue to make a profit, they wouldn't have as much pay and benefits as they do today - but they would still have jobs.

 

[malern28us]

They only have a job because of the US taxpayer. They are indirectly on the dole. I classify them as I do a Colts player: If it weren't for taxpayers, they either wouldn't have a job, or the benefits would be a lot less if they wanted to keep their job.



This same excuse is used by every single labor group out there:
-Cops
-Firefighters
-EMTs
-Nurses
-Teachers

Hell, I am now seeing it used by millionaire VPs, CEOs, CFOs, etc.. They claim the job is 80 hours a week and you are always on call. You have to be responsible for thousands to hundreds of thousands of employees. You have to be able to move around, because you only may last at one company five to ten years.

What makes all these people above somehow so special as to work a job that others won't do? Are union folks clairvoyant, do they have absolute proof of this? If you fired every person at that plant tomorrow, and posted their jobs at $15.50/hour, there would be no one showing up to apply? Only those humans beings currently employed at that plant are willing to work those jobs?



I make $19.75 an hour. A new person makes about $17.50/hour. It is a quasi-government job. Our healthcare is going up $100/month unless you are in shape (they will be doing testing) then you get it back. Welcome to the real world. Welcome to taxpayer subsidized jobs. The UAW did a lot of good safety wise. They did it too good, they got laws passed. Now that there are laws, the UAW focuses on riches, money, benefits, etc.. Well, they pushed their wages sky high, so everyone else in America followed suit. Now we have nurses, those who work in hospitals, making almost UAW wages. So that means doctors have to make even more. Healthcare costs skyrocketed, and that put GM, Ford, and everyone else into a bind. My company never paid UAW wages, and they were able to handle the massive upswing in healthcare cost. If folks want healthcare, they are going to have to pay for it.

The only thing I side with this UAW Local on is the language about their retirement and being a UAW employee. However, if you want that, you will have to move. Those employees who discuss moving to other plants I have more respect for. No one is guaranteed a job that pays $30/hour, plus over-time, plus holiday pay, etc.. So the least a person could do is understand that if they want such a job, moving every five or so years might be required.



Once you suck from the government Kool-Aid, it becomes everyone's business. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. Where I work we got no raise last year, likely won't get one this year. Health insurance going up, etc.. It may get to a point where I have to cut cable, cell phones, vacations to places, etc.. So?



At which point it then becomes my business, and everyone else who pays any sort of mandatory taxes that go to the entity.



So you aren't owned private property rights? You aren't owed rights at all? Should it be survival of the fittest? Don't like the guy in front of you that cut you off, you are OK to kill him? Not owed a right to life? Where do you draw the line? For me, it is the right to not be victimized, to have food, water, and shelter. I am OK with paying a few pennies on the dollar for that. I know a lot of folks will say "I shouldn't be paying for someone's Section 8!" and I get where they are coming from. But then I could argue I shouldn't have had to pay for rural electrification, roads, military stuff, police, fire service, ambulance service, etc.. If one argues taxes are OK for police, fire, ambulance, and/or roads, then they have no leg to stand on to say "no one is owned anything." True individual freedom can never exist. Someone will always have something they want denied, by law or whatever. I am not very big on Constitutional rights, as the way they are set-up in this country, they are only what nine people say they are, nothing more. If you want a no holds barred country, look at Somalia, because that is exactly what you will get. So while no one is really owed food, water, safety, and shelter, if those aren't provided, you might get really tired constantly having to fight off starving, thirsty people.

Do me a favor and dont include groups that you obviously know nothing about. I am a nurse and make more an hour than you do...whoopee..who cares. If you are bummed get a job where you cant be easily replaced.
Better yet get a new graduate nurse to care for you when you have just had open heart surgery. I will personally get your HRC paperwork out (basically you are a dead man). I dont complain when I pay my doctor cause I have seen what they go through on a daily basis.
I do know some people that work at the Fort Wayne GM plant that make more than me. Is it fair?
I can save your life....they can build you a car...hmmmm.
Until I stop seeing idiots that cant spell their own names making more money for carrying a football or throwing a ball through a hoop in one year than I will make in my lifetime......

 

[malern28us]

I am so upset I cant even finish coherant thoughts....lol