Unsafe carry? What do you think

[ditcherman]

I'm just thinking it would be difficult to get a good grip on the gun when drawing in that position.
Probably never practices drawing the unloaded pistol at home.

Unloaded? Wait what?

 

[Max Volume]

Unloaded? Wait what?

Don't you practice dry firing at home with an unloaded pistol?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I get that. I actually want everyone to carry.
You gotta admit that .45 size hole pointing right at you knowing most likely there's a round in tha chamber and not knowing his personal gun handling skills is unacceptable.
If I go into a LGS and look at a known unloaded pistol and muzzle the clerk or other customers im sure I would be told thats unsafe. And nice to see you back around seems you've been away.

Thanks, glad to be back. Lifes been busy, havent posted much cause i didnt wanna post and not respond if it was replied to and people think i ignored them.

And I agree, for the most part. Any time a barrel is pointing at me it gives me pause. But, if its holstered I generally feel safe (unless its a hi point… yep… im starting that!! Lol).

I enjoy the 2A community holding each other to high standards. But you gotta admit, its a double edged sword. If some liberal goon reads thru and sees the division of us pointing this out, they are gonna see that we are divided on it and start using that for their benefit. Every time a firearm is in a holster like that they are gonna post it and use it as an example of irresponsible carry, and our own team will be fighting amongst ourselves about it instead of uniting against them. As long as we are divided about this stuff, they will continue to erode our right and hobby little by little.

Look at the bump stock ban. Even here there were arguments about it. “Why do you need it” “i have never had a need for it so i dont care” etc., so we allowed that to be taken.

I will not give an inch to these wackos anymore, and even if he has it duct taped to his left ass cheek with spare mags taped on his right, ill still start a conversation and tell him im glad hes carrying… and i hope some lefty goon is close enough in line to hear me do it.

 

[bwframe]

A properly holstered pistol is safe.

The problem lies in whether your method of carry forces you to point your pistol at yourself and others every time holstering and drawing?

If you are not conscious of this, what other firearms safety rules are you intentionally overlooking? If one of the four rules don't matter to you, why would any really matter that much or at all?

What's the likelihood that someone who knowingly points their pistol at themselves every day has concern for pointing at others? Has proper trigger finger discipline? Are sure of their target and beyond?

 

[ECS686]

If stuff goes down and I’m drawing I guarantee you I’m sweeping people. It’s why we practice to not shoot what doesn’t need shot. Well, some of us do apparently.

Respectfully,That’s why the wrong people get shot. Might want to train with Darryl Bolke, Bryan Easteidge Dave Spaulding, John Hearne and Rangemaster.

They know a thing or 2 on how to keep folks out of jail that way!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And I agree, for the most part. Any time a barrel is pointing at me it gives me pause. But, if its holstered I generally feel safe (unless its a Sig… yep… im starting that!! Lol).

FTFY

 

[indyblue]

If it was the eighties, maybe?

The reason we got away from those, is that they are impossible to be modern day safe. No way to not point the gun at yourself and who knows how many others? Every time you draw or holster.

No competitive shooting sport will let you on the line with that holster. I cannot imagine any firearm training class will let you on their line either, even the crazy ones

Ahh, the Bren Ten. Memories of that show. I have a season or two on DVD, one of my favorites being the episode with Glenn Frey & Smugglers Blues music.

From Wiki:

Due to Don Johnson's dissatisfaction with the Lifeline rig, the Jackass Leather Company (later renamed Galco International) Original Jackass Rig shoulder holster rig was personally fitted for him by Rick Gallagher, President of Galco.[4] Finally the Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster was designed and used.[4] The Bren Ten, manufactured by Dornaus & Dixon, was a stainless steel handgun notable as the first ever chambered in the powerful 10mm Auto caliber.

 

[ditcherman]

A properly holstered pistol is safe.

Thank you.

The problem lies in whether your method of carry forces you to point your pistol at yourself and others every time holstering and drawing?

In real life for most practical people it’s just gonna happen. Hopefully just a little, but it’s gonna happen, for all practical purposes.

If you are not conscious of this, what other firearms safety rules are you intentionally overlooking? If one of the four rules don't matter to you, why would any really matter that much or at all?

When we get to heaven and find out there’s only three I’m gonna laugh.

What's the likelihood that someone who knowingly points their pistol at themselves every day has concern for pointing at others?

In your imagination I feel like the likelihood is low. In reality, it varies, but among trained people I’d bet it’s more than your imagination allows for.

Has proper trigger finger discipline? Are sure of their target and beyond?

 

[tcecil88]

Was there a movie or show that heavily featured a crossdraw holster that I am not aware of?

Al Pacino's character in Heat carried crossdraw. One of the main characters in Seal Team carries his pistol crossdraw when inside the wire. That's the only 2 I can think of off the top of my head other than old westerns.
I used to carry a J Frame BUG crossdraw. I still think a crossdraw BUG is a good way to carry as you can get to a holstered handgun quickly seated in a car faster than you can get it off your hip.

 

[bwframe]

...In real life for most practical people it’s just gonna happen. Hopefully just a little, but it’s gonna happen, for all practical purposes...
...In your imagination I feel like the likelihood is low. In reality, it varies, but among trained people I’d bet it’s more than your imagination allows for.

Like this man said...

Respectfully,That’s why the wrong people get shot. Might want to train with Darryl Bolke, Bryan Easteidge Dave Spaulding, John Hearne and Rangemaster.

They know a thing or 2 on how to keep folks out of jail that way!

You don't have to point your gun at yourself or others. It's a matter of training yourself to NOT do it.

You have to have the will to consciously be safe. Making excuses won't get you there, my friend.

 

[ECS686]

Like this man said...



You don't have to point your gun at yourself or others. It's a matter of training yourself to NOT do it.

You have to have the will to consciously be safe. Making excuses won't get you there, my friend.

As someone with 38 years of LE and trainjng with several professionals I find it not advisable to recommend or “acceptable” to type in public that they plan and think it’s OK to sweep the innocent folks and then justify it by saying that’s why you train. Training doesn’t justify anyone muzzle sweeping a non threat.

To this I would ask with what training I have had (Rangemaster. FLETC Nuke Security) would you be OK with me pointing a loaded gun at your loved ones head? It should be “NO”

Even tier one forces don’t muzzle sweep friendlies so us mere mortals probably shouldn’t.

It has been proven from decades of Police Shootings and training That is how Police shoot the wrong person!

 

[ditcherman]

As someone with 38 years of LE and trainjng with several professionals I find it not advisable to recommend or “acceptable” to type in public that they plan and think it’s OK to sweep the innocent folks and then justify it by saying that’s why you train. Training doesn’t justify anyone muzzle sweeping a non threat.

To this I would ask with what training I have had (Rangemaster. FLETC Nuke Security) would you be ON with me pointing a loaded gun at your loved ones head? It should be “NO”

Even tier one forces don’t muzzle sweep friendlies so us mere mortals probably shouldn’t.

It has been proven from decades of Polic Shootings and training That is how Police shoot the wrong person!

I respect your opinion and your experience. Maybe I have taken my argument too far, as I have no combat or duty experience, so I have to respect those that do. That being said, I see a lot of scenarios unfolding where someone’s going to be in the way or what many here would say is too close for comfort.

I am honestly surprised that tier one forces or any tier for that matter don’t sweep each other when it comes down to it. But like I said, I’ve never been there. I have trained with a few and thought they indicated otherwise.

 

[ditcherman]

Don't you practice dry firing at home with an unloaded pistol?

I’ve been advised to stop typing.

 

[BugI02]

Don't hate, appreciate!

Bren 10 !!!

 

[BugI02]

One thing about the 2A community, we sure are quick to tell someone they arent exercising their right how we want them to exercise it. Hard to fight opposition when we fight amongst ourselves at every turn.


If someone decided to start shooting in that store, being behind him in line is right where i would want to be, regardless of his carry method.

Almost every shoulder holster flags the person behind them. I dont see a difference, other than it being about 15 inches lower.

I should think the difference is someone under stress having to whip his drawn weapon through a 90+ degree arc, one handed, while trying to intercept it somewhere with a support hand and maintain trigger discipline might be a bit much to ask. Not only don't I want to be behind him but not anywheres at his 7:00 to 12:30 either

I would guess AIWB would be most of a second or more faster as well

 

[red_zr24x4]

.....and not knowing his personal gun handling skills is unacceptable.

How many people think this about you?

Holstered gun, not being coon fingered, no problem

 

[BugI02]

Al Pacino's character in Heat carried crossdraw. One of the main characters in Seal Team carries his pistol crossdraw when inside the wire. That's the only 2 I can think of off the top of my head other than old westerns.
I used to carry a J Frame BUG crossdraw. I still think a crossdraw BUG is a good way to carry as you can get to a holstered handgun quickly seated in a car faster than you can get it off your hip.

I think Doc Holiday carried cross draw sometimes in Tombstone

 

[BigMoose]

They do exist...

I am split here. Yes as long as its a properly designed holster, people should be able to carry how they want.
Even if it is a belt crossdraw holster...

But should you have to stare at an gun muzzle pointed at you in line? No..
This guy needs to make sure his jacket at least is covering the gun fully if he chooses to use a holster like that.

I realize that a jacket, or a holster that covers the muzzle wont stop a thing. But out of sight, out of mind.

What if it had not been a ingo guy behind him, but perhaps some that would have made a loud fuss, whatever...
There is value in discreetness and discretion.

 

[ECS686]

I respect your opinion and your experience. Maybe I have taken my argument too far, as I have no combat or duty experience, so I have to respect those that do. That being said, I see a lot of scenarios unfolding where someone’s going to be in the way or what many here would say is too close for comfort.

I am honestly surprised that tier one forces or any tier for that matter don’t sweep each other when it comes down to it. But like I said, I’ve never been there. I have trained with a few and thought they indicated otherwise.

As many agency schools and incidents I have done I really leaned a lot more going to national level vetted instructors like Spaulding. Bolke,Eastridge,Hearn Lee Weems Rangemaster and

I recommend everyone attend at least one of those types. There are others I. The same quality block as well. They bring several decades of experience and how to better do things and great examples on not what to do. We find out what not to do by cases that go south.

We use to never wear seat belts but through injuries over the years we sort of learned they do minimize injuries. Using handguns are the same way and vetted instructors teaching from experience and actual cases not just talking theory is the only way to really improve!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I am honestly surprised that tier one forces or any tier for that matter don’t sweep each other when it comes down to it. But like I said, I’ve never been there. I have trained with a few and thought they indicated otherwise.

Sometimes it happens. So does crossfire. Sometimes bad things happen as a result. Sometimes they don't. We shouldn't confuse lucky outcomes with good tactics, though, and we should strive for best practices while recognizing reality is messier.

The biggest issue is, until you've been there, it's tough to recognize how much cognitive load you have and how that affects how you process visual input. Shrugging flagging off and expecting to be perfect in both visual processing and decision making is something of a gamble, IMO.