US Marine Corps nearing the final decision the new .45

[01deuce]

Opinionated just a little are we?

My Sig P220 has gone well into 1k close to 2k rnds without a single foul up. Regardless of ammo.

And it didnt cost $2000.00 like an HK.

I bet you drive a BMW too dont you.

That being said, They should go with the CZ 97BD and truly get the best there is.

It's funny how people that don't know any better like to add $ to what a HK costs.

And even more so when people like to assume things about someone that they don't have a clue about!

 

[ghitch75]

My information comes from many sources. Observation is a big one. History the other main influence.

Guys Like Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance and LAV make too much money teaching people how to fix and maintain the 1911 for me to believe that they just have some ax to grind when they spell out honestly their opinions on a fighting pistol. I have a good friend that has taken a LAV 1911 pistol smithing course, the students of that class were given his opinion on the 1911, an honest evaluation of pros and cons as well as a some advice. It went along the lines of the following: if you aren't willing to spend the time and money to learn to maintain your 1911, buy a sig, a glock or something more modern. The 1911 is an enthusiasts gun, and it takes a strong dedication to the platform to maintain it, to learn it, and to use it well. Both Hilton Yam and LAv have fixed an carried more 1911's than most people have seen pictures of, I feel confident and heading their advice on the subject.

I have talked to numerous gunsmiths on my short time on the earth who make more money fixing 1911's than any other pistol, this tells me something, either the other pistols and used less, can be fixed with little skill, or don't break as often.

I have numerous friends that die hard 1911 fans, they have always been honest with the amount of work they put into maintenance, the hours they have sunk into research, and the issues they have had to deal with by adhering to the 1911 platform for training and play.

Talk honestly to men that have carried, trained with, instructed around, or competed with the 1911 platform, few have the enthusiastic fanboyism that so populates the internet. Many top shooters in the world compete with Glock, Cz, Sig, the reason isn't simply sponsorship. Look at the number of police agencies that have switched from the 1911. While many factors contribute to that decision reliability and ease of maintenance have been a leading factor, ( isn't the glock armorers course completed in 8 hours?)

124 grain 9mm has the same if not slightly more potential energy than a 230 grain .45 does. capacity also favors the 9mm as does recoil management.

Flame on if you wish, the for fighting guns .45 and the 1911 offer no benefit but a marginally larger permanent wound cavity, by diameter.

more internet look ups without any personal experience with the weapon....i have over 30 years with the 1911 and in the 100 year history of the 1911 why did it take over 80 years for the military to change?....recoil was the main reason and NATO.......if you would look the 1911 platform is still the most used in shootin' and race match's......

 

[superjoe76]

Springfield, Glock, H&K, S&W...one thing is for sure:

"This is my pistol, this is my gun" will still have the same meaning!

 

[Caleb]

I'm glad they are going with 45 acp...secures this ammo platform a while longer. HK's and 1911's are both fine weapons, can't go wrong with either.

 

[kawtech87]

It's funny how people that don't know any better like to add $ to what a HK costs.

And even more so when people like to assume things about someone that they don't have a clue about!

My post was supposed to satire, a failed attempt at humor maybe it was.

I exaggerated the cost of the pistol just to get a rise out of the HK fans.

Still the MSRP of the HK USP 45 is $900-$1100 depending on the type of trigger prefered. My Sig P-220 was $689. I happen to like HKs LEM trigger. I just do not like the placement of the mag release as it tends to pinch my fingers. Do not assume I do not know what im talking about just bc you dont agree with what Im saying.

No offense was intended, but if your gonna get so butthurt over it then maybe my statments hit just a little too close to home for you.

 

[kawtech87]

The 97 is a good gun, but it would make a better club.

The CZ 97 is an exellent weapon. But is its HEAVY I will agree.

Honestly They should take the pistol that does the best in trials and not be concerened with the costs. Afterall Its not THIER money that they are spending. Its YOURS and MINE.

So if they think the HK is worth my money then thats what they should get.

Personally I dont think an HK is worth my money or I would own one.

 

[01deuce]

Well for one its not made in the USA.

Not assuming! you don't know!

My post was supposed to satire, a failed attempt at humor maybe it was.

I exaggerated the cost of the pistol just to get a rise out of the HK fans.

Still the MSRP of the HK USP 45 is $900-$1100 depending on the type of trigger prefered. My Sig P-220 was $689. I happen to like HKs LEM trigger. I just do not like the placement of the mag release as it tends to pinch my fingers. Do not assume I do not know what im talking about just bc you dont agree with what Im saying.



No offense was intended, but if your gonna get so butthurt over it then maybe my statments hit just a little to close to home for you.

I have very thick skin and was not ''butthurt'' . You said nothing for me to agree or disagree about! (except for your incorrect statements)

 

[kawtech87]

True, I was unaware that HK had been making pistols stateside. Also Im NOT a fan of HK so I tend to ignore them, and could care less where they are made.

As far as I can tell I only misstated once. The rest was either a misinterpreted joke or opinion.

 

[01deuce]

True, I was unaware that HK had been making pistols stateside. Also Im NOT a fan of HK so I tend to ignore them, and could care less where they are made.

As far as I can tell I only misstated once. The rest was either a misinterpreted joke or opinion.

Fair enough for me.

 

[kawtech87]

Also If Im not mistaken isnt it stated somewhere that the weapons that are used by our armed forces are REQUIRED to be made in the USA? Isnt that why Beretta buildt a huge facillity here in the US and moved alot of there production to that plant?

Please correct me if Im wrong.

 

[01deuce]

Also If Im not mistaken isnt it stated somewhere that the weapons that are used by our armed forces are REQUIRED to be made in the USA? Isnt that why Beretta buildt a huge facillity here in the US and moved alot of there production to that plant?

Please correct me if Im wrong.

I seem to remember that being the case with the M9 (could be wrong) but I don't think the M249 SAW was ever made here. The HK MK23 was never made here and the HK416 is not made here. There might be other examples, but I am not sure. Maybe the SIG M11 also. Those are all small amounts compared to the M9 though.

 

[CulpeperMM]

The M249 version of the Minimi was adopted by the US military in 1982; since 1984, production for the US military is carried out entirely in the US by a local subsidiary, FN Manufacturing LLC in South Carolina.

FN Minimi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kawtech87]

The M9 was going to become the issued sidearm for all standard armed forces. The M249 Im pretty sure they only issue 1 to each squad. Im not sure as Ive never been in the service. Ill ask my friends (god willing) when they come home. The same with the MK23 and HK416 and Sig M11. even though they are issued they mostly go to special forces that get to choose thier gear. So I dont think the same rules apply.

I own a Sig P-228 I bought new, that Im pretty sure was an M11 refugee. As its the only one Ive seen that came factory with a rail. On the frame and the slide both it says MADE IN GERMANY. So atleast I will assume the M11 is not made in the USA.

 

[01deuce]

FN Minimi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I carried one and never noticed where it was made.Unless it was pre 1984 I guess.

 

[Jeremiah]

more internet look ups without any personal experience with the weapon....i have over 30 years with the 1911 and in the 100 year history of the 1911 why did it take over 80 years for the military to change?....recoil was the main reason and NATO.......if you would look the 1911 platform is still the most used in shootin' and race match's......

wow, just wow, did you read what I wrote?

 

[fountainjl]

Interesting article. Surprised that after all these years the .45 is still the go-to caliber.

 

[Jeremiah]

more internet look ups without any personal experience with the weapon....i have over 30 years with the 1911 and in the 100 year history of the 1911 why did it take over 80 years for the military to change?....recoil was the main reason and NATO.......if you would look the 1911 platform is still the most used in shootin' and race match's......

Seriously look at the trials, Nato compliance, capcity, ease of maintainence, and cost were all factors.

At the time the cost of a new 1911 was significantly higher than the contract price that a berta was obtained for. it was also a simpler system to operate.

 

[bobzilla]

I'm still trying to figure out how my 1911 is more maintenance than the Beretta? Friend and I own one of each, have shot about as much and they both get cleaned as often. I think he's had more issues than I have... and I shot a .40 out of it (not intentionally)

 

[HICKMAN]

SF buddy of mine here at work wouldn't be surprised that a version of the Para SF-45 is in the running. He loves his.

 

[Sylvain]

Hi Point baby!
Made in the USA, very cheap,[STRIKE]very ugly[/STRIKE] and solid like a tank.
They can probably get 3 or 4 Hi Points for the price of a Beretta M9.