USPSA President Election

[rvb]

Meh. Not voting for Valentine.

Foley has done a good job getting the organization straightened out. However, I believe a consistent rule set is USPSA's most important deliverable to it's members. In that regard, I think Foley and DNROI have done a poor job. There are a few things I disagree with but the biggest fault I see is the rulebook has no reliable document control. I have no issues with an all electronic copy but it's imperative changes are appropriately documented and easily accessible. Multiple times I've opened the app and seen a "A newer version is available!" message, only to download and open the rulebook to see the same January 2019 date and Digital Version 1. Did something change? The membership has no way to know. It's disappointing. The rulebook got a big refresh for 2019 but I question investing the time to review it when I don't trust that it will be the same the next time I open it.

Agree with this completely. It's a huge frustration for me. How hard would It be to only allow changes once per year and publish a track-changes version so you can see exactly what changed. BTW, this last rev I made a redline version, and I bet the published changes show <50% of the actual changes.........

I'm somewhat disappointed in the website update, too...

Voted for Valentine.

No issues with Foley personally but would rather feel like I belonged to a club than an oligarchy. Want to make major changes that effect every match (PCC, Welfare optics, no rule books, etc) , that is fine - get on the computer and let the members vote on what they want and do not want. Obviously we know how to let people vote on important things.

Other thing that makes me crazy is r.o. training. There are still a lot of matches where you can't have fun because there are only 2 or 3 folks on the squad who know how to r.o. and score keep. Why this club has not taken advantage of You-tube & etc for explaining stuff, like the rest of the 12 years and older semi civilized world, is beyond me, not saying that you certify anybody without a class but you can do a great deal to educate the masses with a very modest expenditure and a very short time.

Not sure the other guy will help with what bugs me but figure a slim chance beats zero chance.

I don't want membership to vote on every issue. that would be madness. What does PCC or CO do to hurt the rest of the competitors? Don't like it, don't shoot it. Letting other people enjoy their preferred division IS a better "club" mentality, why a desire to vote against it? Do pro sports allow the competitors to vote on rule changes?

As far as RO'ing, I'm sure I've pissed off a couple of people when they gave me the excuse of "I would but I'm not a certified RO" and I say " that's ok you don't have to be, best way to learn is to do" and hand them the timer or tablet....

I RO'd for YEARS before becoming certified (including majors). Most just aren't willing to step up and try. they are more than happy to let you do the work and it doesn't bother them if you don't have as much fun and work harder. Now a youtube vid could certainly help show proper range commands, what safety issues to watch for, etc, but there's nothing like running a few shooters w/ an experienced RO watching over you to get you started.

I think part of the problem w/ people stepping up to help RO at the club level is so many clubs give free entry to ROs. People are less likely to help if they don't get the same discount. But the RO wants to shoot and have time to reload mags and catch their breath, too, so someone has to do it for "free." For level 1s, I view RO'ing and scoring and pasting all the same... everyone should be willing to step in and do their fair share of it (no RO discount at my club). Now at a major, yes, I expect only staff to be RO'ing, after all they get the free entry/hotel/special raffles/etc. Can't have it both ways, IMO (give free RO entry AND expect others to help).

-rvb (not as 'plugged in' as previous years and still don't know who to vote for....)

 

[Grelber]

I don't want membership to vote on every issue....)

I do not know anybody that does. Major changes that effect every match was what I was referring to.

Should be extremely easy to add a polling capability to USPSA, if I was supposed to lead I would be very interested in what the people wanted. Come to think of it though, I would probably even expand it to some pretty small stuff, why not find out what people want when polling on a web site is crazy easy and there is even a chance it could suprise you?

 

[rvb]

polls are ok. way different than direct voting. Of course, we have to remember there is a board, too. Blaming Pres USPSA for new rules is kinda/sorta like blaming POTUS for new laws (though Pres USPSA does get a board vote). It's more the execution that bothers me, the stuff Pres USPSA is responsible for.... eg the website, rulebook role outs, etc. I have no issue w/ CO or PCC so his suggestions for the divisions (that the board approved) don't bother me. Their addition hasn't affected matches that I can tell...

-rvb

 

[Fuzz]

Honestly most people (members) do not have any idea what the issues are. They do not want to get involved in the politics. Just like the Good Ol USA elections. Less than 50% vote and less than 10% know what or anything about who they are voting for.

About 10% to 20% know and care, these are the ones that are effecting the vote or the issues at hand.

Even myself, I know a little about Mike Foley and some of the things he has done have helped a lot. I know nothing of the other Mike than he wants a printed rule book.( yeah I heard that from a MEME. ) Honestly this is the same for most membership. Since the other 80 to 90% don't have time or effort to learn the issue and stances then it's nothing more than a marketing campaign that solely based on popularity

 

[Coach]

I don't mind taking a timer for a few shooters per stage to give the RO a break even if they got a discount.

I can count on my hands the number of club matches I have shot in ten years that have not RO or helped significantly with the timer.

There are a lot more people who could step up and help than do. There are a few that should stop "helping" or learn the rules.

I think Foley has done a pretty good job fixing a number of things with the organization. I hope that trend continues. I think he is the first full time president we have had since I have been a member. Long over due. I have not agreed with everything he has done or changed but I am happier than 4 years ago.

I like to ***** about pcc as much than the next guy but I think it has turned out to be a good thing overall. There were 3 pc shooters on my squad at the Battle for the North Coast last week. One of them was an idiot and was everything I was afraid pc would be. But overall pc has not been much of a problem. Some cavalier gun handling but that can,be fixed with enforcing the rules.

 

[romack991]

Voted for Valentine.

No issues with Foley personally but would rather feel like I belonged to a club than an oligarchy. Want to make major changes that effect every match (PCC, Welfare optics, no rule books, etc) , that is fine - get on the computer and let the members vote on what they want and do not want. Obviously we know how to let people vote on important things.

Other thing that makes me crazy is r.o. training. There are still a lot of matches where you can't have fun because there are only 2 or 3 folks on the squad who know how to r.o. and score keep. Why this club has not taken advantage of You-tube & etc for explaining stuff, like the rest of the 12 years and older semi civilized world, is beyond me, not saying that you certify anybody without a class but you can do a great deal to educate the masses with a very modest expenditure and a very short time.

Not sure the other guy will help with what bugs me but figure a slim chance beats zero chance.

To be fair, several of your RO training suggestions are planned for 2019 per Foley's 2019 BOD presentation. Slide 47.
https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20190215 1 MIKE FOLEY.pdf

I'm not voting for Valentine as it does not appear he has put any serious thought / reasoning into how to improve USPSA. It's basically a couple short comments on what most people like to complain about. When asked for more detail usually the responses appear short sighted and inconsistent. It's hard to implement change without a solid vision. It's also hard to believe he'll improve the NROI when he hasn't even bothered to become a certified RO. Foley has some faults but I've never questioned if the guy came to work. At the end of the day, that gets my vote between the two. Hopefully our board will get more involved to fill in some gaps.

 

[Tanfodude]

I don't have much say on the previous pres but Foley got the ball rolling on some (the uspsa app, new divisions, updated rules) and dropped the ball in relations department (The Ben Stoeger and Ben Berry case).

 

[Coach]

I don't have much say on the previous pres but Foley got the ball rolling on some (the uspsa app, new divisions, updated rules) and dropped the ball in relations department (The Ben Stoeger and Ben Berry case).

PR has been a weak link several times. Hoping he has that under control.

 

[S8MS-01904]

Voting complete, I voted for Mike.

 

[Grelber]

To be fair, several of your RO training suggestions are planned for 2019 per Foley's 2019 BOD presentation. Slide 47.
https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20190215 1 MIKE FOLEY.pdf

That stuff does look sexy, would love to see some follow through.

Agree with other comments, Valentine is a bit too seat of the pants at this stage of the game.

 

[Grelber]

What does PCC or CO do to hurt the rest of the competitors? Don't like it, don't shoot it. Letting other people enjoy their preferred division IS a better "club" mentality, why a desire to vote against it? Do pro sports allow the competitors to vote on rule changes?

Sounds like if your opinion was worth enough to the club to get you a vote then you would have been in the plus column .

For the record, all I wrote was that I'd like to see members get to vote (or poll) on big issues with broad effect.

For example, want 15 rounds in production so USPSA can be like IPSC () ? I would really hate it but if that is what the majority of USPSA production shooters want then that is likely the way it ought to be. Instead of *****ing for the next 10 years I'd have to live with majority rule.

 

[Tanfodude]

15rnd production is being lazy. Those who wanted it are bad at mag changes

 

[praff]

Voted for foley....

while i don’t agree with every decision being made, overall, the membership and exposure to this hobby has grown massively over the past few years. Whether you like pcc/carry optics or not, the fact is that both divisions have brought people out to matches. Both divisions have given a lot of people the opportunity to shoot a match and be exposed to uspsa or steel challenge. A lot of these people may have never come out in the past.

What I would like to see changed is the classification system in regards to pcc/pistols for uspsa. Just because you can make m or gm in rifle classifiers doesn’t mean you are an A or M level pistol shooter. There is some flawed logic in applying that rule to crossover between rifles and pistols. They shiuld be totally separate classification systems.

 

[jakemartens]

Sounds like if your opinion was worth enough to the club to get you a vote then you would have been in the plus column .

For the record, all I wrote was that I'd like to see members get to vote (or poll) on big issues with broad effect. For example, want 15 rounds in production so USPSA can be like IPSC () ? I would really hate it but if that is what the majority of USPSA production shooters want then that is likely the way it ought to be. Instead of *****ing for the next 10 years I'd have to live with majority rule.

That is what your Area Director is for, he represents you in voting on issues.
If there are things that you have issues with or would like to see implemented, you take it to your Area Director who presents it to the board.
As a group they decide if it goes on the agenda for discussion and then vote on it.

When there was discussion about changes to Carry Optics in the Board meeting in Feb, I sent all my opinions to my Area Director, even though I was in the meeting.
If you want polls then you would want to have your Area Director set it up, polling the entire membership on things leaves the Board out of the equation when representing their area.
The day to day operations, and certain policies are the responsibility of the President and staff, voting on bylaws and rules are the responsibility of the Board, the President is only one vote.
President sets the agenda for meetings, leads them, however any board member can ahead of any meeting ask to have items added to the agenda.

As for the app showing rule updates, no rule can be changed without going to the board for approval and then being listed in the minutes ahead of time.
Updates have been grammar and changing the Official Match Ammo program to the Certified Match Ammo Program.
There is a process for this. DNROI answering questions etc was explained in a recent posting to the nroi.org and sent in the Downrange Newsletter etc. (https://nroi.org/miscellaneous/questions-answers-and-rulings/ )
It will also be in the next issue of the magazine.

Not everyone is going to be happy about everything, there are several things that I am not big fan of.
Yeah I am an employee, but I also think of myself as shooter first and member. I ask myself, kind of everyday, is this better than it was 4 years ago.
I have a little bit of an advantage in that I starting working for USPSA in 2014, so I can answer that question maybe a little bit better knowing what I do.
I do not always agree, I don't always like everything and I don't always get my way when I whine, pout and cuss, but I can tell you that because there are 10 people that
go to work for the Org everyday things are a hell of a lot better than they were or could have been under different leadership.

 

[Grelber]

That is what your Area Director is for, he represents you in voting on issues.
If there are things that you have issues with or would like to see implemented, you take it to your Area Director who presents it to the board.
As a group they decide if it goes on the agenda for discussion and then vote on it.

I think it was kind of you to take the time to explain, but that is exactly status quo that made me interested in voting for somebody that was interested in doing things differently.

Right now its is:
Speak with local tribal leader
Hope local tribe leader brings concern to next pow wow rather than forgetting, getting confused, just tabling it because he feels otherwise, or being unavailable at pow wow.
Hope Wampum chiefs share and understand the concern.
Wonder if anything ever really happened.
Wonder why something did or didn't happen.

Not a hill to die on, but I think polling the voting membership on big issues just makes whole lot more sense. As I understand it USPSA now has a full time IT person to support such things.

 

[jakemartens]

I think it was kind of you to take the time to explain, but that is exactly status quo that made me interested in voting for somebody that was interested in doing things differently.

Right now its is:
Speak with local tribal leader
Hope local tribe leader brings concern to next pow wow rather than forgetting, getting confused, just tabling it because he feels otherwise, or being unavailable at pow wow.
Hope Wampum chiefs share and understand the concern.
Wonder if anything ever really happened.
Wonder why something did or didn't happen.

Not a hill to die on, but I think polling the voting membership on big issues just makes whole lot more sense. As I understand it USPSA now has a full time IT person to support such things.

You are correct, and setting up a poll isn't hard at all, even setting it up by area so the AD can see how the members in that area are responding.
It wouldn't hurt anything to do, but it would have to be a board decision to do it. Have you sent this to your AD or to Mike?

 

[Trapper Jim]

[

Not everyone is going to be happy about everything, there are several things that I am not big fan of.
Yeah I am an employee, but I also think of myself as shooter first and member. I ask myself, kind of everyday, is this better than it was 4 years ago.
I have a little bit of an advantage in that I starting working for USPSA in 2014, so I can answer that question maybe a little bit better knowing what I do.
I do not always agree, I don't always like everything and I don't always get my way when I whine, pout and cuss, but I can tell you that because there are 10 people that
go to work for the Org everyday things are a hell of a lot better than they were or could have been under different leadership.[/QUOTE]


Foley got my vote for I have seen more progressive changes in recent years than ever. As a life member and one who remembers the day when that if you shot out of your area you got no credit and the journey to where we are today. I know personally who has helped and hurt on this journey. Just because room has been made for divisions other than what I care to shoot I understand the economics of keeping the boat afloat. As a weirdo, I like low round count, not much thinking and major caliber courses without electronic sights. To me, they are well ...more Practical. However, The organization can not live on just a few like me so I support USPSA and the hardworking souls who work hard at it even if I choose not to shoot in a few divisions.. Furthermore we are blessed to have so many LOCAL top notch people providing this gateway to USPSA.

L1762

 

[rhino]

I don't have much say on the previous pres but Foley got the ball rolling on some (the uspsa app, new divisions, updated rules) and dropped the ball in relations department (The Ben Stoeger and Ben Berry case).

Aw, man! I had no idea what you were talking about, so I made the mistake of some doing some web searching. What a cluster f of failure from everyone involved. UGH.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Aw, man! I had no idea what you were talking about, so I made the mistake of some doing some web searching. What a cluster f of failure from everyone involved. UGH.

Poor judgement and actions by human beings however who is perfect? This and other errors are not worth throwing the baby out with the bath water. Besides Social Media can be a Social Disease.

 

[rhino]

Poor judgement and actions by human beings however who is perfect? This and other errors are not worth throwing the baby out with the bath water. Besides Social Media can be a Social Disease.

I don't understand what you're asking/saying.

I will summarize my thoughts: the actual conflict among the persons named was silly, but I really don't care about it. It was failure all around, but one party involved is someone who does not interact with other people well and has a long history of that. All of that was failure. The bigger failure was the self-righteous whining from perpetual victims whose objections were based on use of words that offended them in a forum that was based on purposely being offensive. I don't care much about how the conflict itself was resolved because one party (Mike Foley) is my friend, one seemed to bury the hatchet, and one is someone I do not respect and probably never will. What irritates me is the whining that ensued over the words used.