USPSA/SCSA raised membership fees!

[blkrifle]

As a match director can you give us some ideas of what USPSA/SCSA does to benefit clubs that hold local matches?

Have fees to be an affiliate club gone up?

Is there a minimum number of sanctioned matches you have to run?

consistent rule set, licensed targets, trained range officers, classification system

club affiliation fees have not gone up that i know of

yes, you agree to run a minimum number of sanctioned matches but there are waivers to that based on weather, losing the range, etc.

 

[blkrifle]

I have always complained about send USPSA $3 per shooter for each Match when we as a club are doing all the work. I firgure this is Paying everyones salary at USPSA, not the dues so why the dues hike!!!!

would you have a match if it wasn't USPSA or based on USPSA? you are paying for the rule set, licensed targets, trained range officers, classification system

 

[Grelber]

Must be all the money the match winners get?
( life member so doesn’t matter to me, the frontsight rag won’t be missed)

I typically pee and moan about IDPA rules but in this case I think they took the right approach - no prize money.

If I was super shooter I would enjoy the $, but, 75-90% of shooters are not in contention and prizes tend to drive unpleasant behavior (you didn't call a procedural on that guy - this target I got a Delta on was not 100% perfectly positioned when replaced - the r.o. farted during my run so I get a reshoot, etc).

 

[Bosshoss]

I don't know what the problem is here. I know several USPSA or competition shooters that go thru several guns a year trying to find the "magic" gun. Also most have backup guns that sometimes get sold when a new and better mousetrap come out.
I don't know how it is now but years ago when you wrote magazine articles the manufactures would send you a gun to test and when you were done with it you could send it back or purchase it for a reduced price since it was now a used gun. After it was purchased the writer could do whatever they wanted with it including selling it.
Back years ago the request for a test gun required a written request on the magazines letterhead.
I personally have sold several handguns(Some even on here) that I won off the prize table or a random draw at matches.
People that work the matches also can win guns from the staff prizes.

Is any thing shady going on here? I don't know but seems that guilty until proven innocent is the way of the internet.
I suggest that if this seems like a inside deal that the USPSA magazine accepts articles from members in fact they have a column almost every issue on how to summit articles to be published. Summit a few articles and maybe you can get cheap guns also so you can go thru the hassle of selling them and make a few dollars.

 

[Bosshoss]

consistent rule set, licensed targets, trained range officers, classification system

This right here.
Keeping it even for everyone by using same targets and rule sets.
The classification system while not that important to everyone is important to many.
I can't even begin to count the times that shooters shoot the classifier at a match and then they and their friends have their phone out to see how they just scored on the classifier they just shot.

Rules ahhhhhhhhhh this is a good one. When I go to a USPSA match I KNOW what to expect rules wise and how the match will run.
Some clubs still don't IMO enforce the rules like they should but the basic rule set is followed.
I have learned so much about the rules by being a Match Director and RO, CRO and working matches but I still don't know that much.
USPSA changes rules enough that I can't keep up with it all(or maybe I just don't care as much anymore).
I have gotten less tolerant for things that I even used to do myself.
How many have heard at a local match that it is JUST a local match OR nobody is going to win a bass boat so what is the big deal.
When I hear that anymore I ask if it would be ok to shoot a open gun in Carry Optics or load my production mags all the way full for production. I mean it is just a local match and if we don't follow some of the rules but follow others why have rules?
35 years ago I shot a match at a local club, it was a "combat match" and not USPSA in any way. I was the first shooter of the match and the first stage had 5 Pepper Poppers at the end of it. I was shooting a 45 para and major loads. I shot the last popper 2 times and it still didn't fall so I shot 3 times and walked the popper down. After I was done one of the guys running the match started to adjust the popper. I asked if I would get a reshoot and he said no and I said then don't adjust the popper. If I had to shoot it set that heavy then everyone else should also. He said a 9 probably won't knock it over so they had to fix it but no reshoot for you. This is what no rules does for you.
End of the world? No but I still remember that from 35 years ago.
A consistent rule set even if we don't always agree with all of it is the biggest benefit of being part of USPSA.

 

[Bosshoss]

The dues increase should have been more gradual instead of all at once IMO but it seems like many are getting all bent out of shape over a large increase and I'm thinking I got away paying less than I should have for several years.
The organization has a lot of internal problems going on right now(IMO) and hopefully they work thru it and can get back on track.


For discussion only a few questions.

People on other forums and a few here have asked what are we getting for that extra money?
I'm asking for discussion purposes what do you want for that extra money or even the dues you have been paying? What would you like USPSA to include with it's membership that it doesn't now?
Same for match directors you(includes me) have been asking what does USPSA do for us, we send them money and do all the work what do we get out of it?
What do the match directors want USPSA to offer them?

 

[Jaybird1980]

you only have to have so many signatures to form a club. once formed there is no requirement to have so many members to continue to operate

So you only need to have the 10 USPSA members to get the club affiliated, but you don't have to retain a minimum number of USPSA members?

 

[Trapper Jim]

If you’re not getting your dues worth in ANY organization that is member based, that’s on you.

 

[jakemartens]

I will be at ACC tomorrow if anyone has questions that they would like to ask.
Also for reference on what the existing fee structure looks like and has been this way since at least 2003, if not longer.



In order to maintain affiliation, a club must adhere to the following guidelines:

• Hold seven matches per year, with at least four distinct matches that include a minimum of one classifier stage. If a club finds itself unable to meet this requirement, it can request an exemption. As far as I know, since I began my role as Club Coordinator in 2015 at the time, no exemption request has ever been denied.
• Conduct at least three SCSA matches per year, each comprising at least two of the official eight stages.
• Submit match results, along with the activity fee, within 30 days of the match.

For a club to affiliate, it must:

• Signatures from the Section Coordinator or AD and at least ten current members. There is no stipulation for a minimum number of members to retain affiliation.
• An affiliated USPSA club can also affiliate an SCSA club at no additional fee. The total for affiliating with both USPSA and SCSA is $75 for new affiliations and $50 total to reaffiliate both.

Matches conducted must follow the guidelines outlined in Appendix A1 of the rulebook, and naturally, must comply with the rules.

With regards to participation in club matches:

• Membership is not a required to participate in local Level 1/Tier 1 club matches.
• However, to maintain a classification and engage in Level 2/Tier 2 or higher matches, a membership is required.
• Membership is required to be part of the Range Officer program and to maintain one's Range Officer certification.

Affiliated clubs gain numerous benefits:

• Access to USPSA and Steel Challenge branding.
• A ruleset for both USPSA and Steel Challenge.
• An accredited Range Officer certification program.
• Official targets for competitions.
• A classification system complete with vetted stages for use.
• Listing on the website/app as an officially affiliated club with over 4 million hits per year.
• Affiliation with an organization with a 40-year history, as well as an international organization with a 50-year history.
• Connection to a network of over 500 USPSA and 300 SCSA clubs that serve more than 39,000 members across 7,500 matches per year.

That does not include the 22,000 non-members who participate in matches, nor do they account for the "USPSA or Steel" like matches that take place. This affiliation offers an opportunity to be part of a thriving community of shooting enthusiasts. For example IDPA has only 23,000 members total, includes international members. The NRA with 4+ million members holds only a few very distinct style of matches a year. All of the old bowling pin matches like Second Chance, the Soldier Of Fortune Matches and even Bianchi Cup are gone or very few events held. Other organizations have come and gone as well, 3 Gun Nation for example. UML has very few matches or affiliates anymore.

The cost to service a member in 2000 vs 2010 vs 2023 is very different. Just the cost for all of the servers, database systems, phone systems, shipping (magazine, RO class supplies, new member packets etc) has doubled and tripled in some cases just in the last 3 years. So the board raised the membership fee, $2.08 a month = $25/year. It was not rolled out correctly, and the communication that the board did was not very good, no argument there.

 

[blkrifle]

So you only need to have the 10 USPSA members to get the club affiliated, but you don't have to retain a minimum number of USPSA members?

CORRECT

 

[Jaybird1980]

CORRECT

I did not know that. I thought you had to maintain a minimum of 10

 

[longbeard]

It was a steep increase. I am not happy about it.

I am not a "rules nazi" per say, but I hear this SO OFTEN in competitive shooting clubs. "There's no Buick on the line". No, there is not. That means you shouldn't get bent about your performance. It doesn't mean toss the rules out the window because there is nothing at stake. There are definitely times when the procedures in the rulebooks are so arduous as to just let them pass. Calibrating USPSA steel comes to mind. Scoring a complete "cluster f**k" of a stage that is going to be a zero comes to mind. Personally, I do my best to preserve the competition's equity the best that I can. No doubt I have failed many times, but I try.

But, every time you go to an IDPA/USPSA/SCSA match and....

• The stage construction rules are violated
• The RO doesn't know how to score properly
• Someone decides "eh, just take a shot at it and call it good"
• The equipment division rules are not followed.
• The procedure rules are tossed aside.

You are simply throwing money away. This is EXACTLY what you are paying for. You could literally get some dudes and a bay and targets and do whatever you want. I doubt there is a Dad with a kid in athletics reading this who wouldn't be pi**ed off if some ref or umpire just let s**t slide.

It takes money to upkeep the rules, keep the classification system, promote the sport and coordinate some major matches. That is indisputable, but don't waste breath wondering why you would pay. I bet you're paying for your children's athletics for similar reasons.

How much money and how it is spent is the bigger concern of the members and obviously fair game for debate and discussion.

 

[racegunz]

How much money and how it is spent is the bigger concern of the members and obviously fair game for debate and discussion.

Except I think you will find it is not “fair game” for debate or discussion.
Maybe I’m wrong, I quit caring many years ago, perhaps now the balance sheets are published and the members have access. I personally couldn’t care less anymore, just want a fair competition to grow and gauge my skill set, that is worth paying for in my opinion. That is why I am a life member and have been at it (uspsa) for about 30 years.

 

[jakemartens]

The bylaws lay out what should take place and what should be available for the membership.

7.6 Annual Report:
The Managing Director shall cause to be prepared and submitted to the Board of Directors an annual written report, which shall include the audited or reviewed financial statement of the Corporation prepared by an independent firm of certified public accountants selected by the audit committee. This report shall be distributed at the annual meeting and to the membership through the corporate newsletter.
The President may, in coordination with the Managing Director, contribute material for the annual report reflecting the state of the Practical Shooting sports, membership feedback, competition trends, emerging equipment trends, best practices and such other material as he/she deems might reflect the state of the sport.


ARTICLE 10 -- MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS:
10.1 Year:
The fiscal year of the Corporation shall be a calendar year.
10.2 Confidentiality:
All financial information, employee information, membership lists and similar matters of this corporation shall remain confidential. All open session Boardroom discussions shall remain confidential until the minutes of those discussions are approved for dissemination by a majority of the Board except and unless otherwise approved by a three-quarters (3/4) majority of the Board. Executive session discussions shall be confidential. No Officer or Director shall supply copies or disseminate such confidential information to any third party without the written consent or by resolution of the Board of Directors, except as otherwise provided in these Bylaws.
This prohibition shall not apply to disclosure of such confidential information to the professional advisers of the Officers or Directors, as the case may be, although such professional advisers shall then keep it confidential. This prohibition shall not apply to disclosure to any governmental agencies to which information shall be required for the operation of the Corporation.
Members serving as affiliated club contact, corporate officers, employees, Section Coordinators and Area Directors may have their names phone numbers, E-mail address, City and States published at various times and places.

 

[Rio]

In thinking about this some more with an apples to apples approach I realized most of you shoot USPSA and not Steel Challenge. I could see a USPSA shooter feeling like the increase is worthwhile. It seems like there is a National match going on all the time, carry optics nationals, irons nationals and PCC nationals for example. Steel challenge offers 1 national match for all divisions and of course the area matches like USPSA. I guess if I was shooting USPSA matches I wouldn’t see it as a big deal.

 

[jakemartens]

In thinking about this some more with an apples to apples approach I realized most of you shoot USPSA and not Steel Challenge. I could see a USPSA shooter feeling like the increase is worthwhile. It seems like there is a National match going on all the time, carry optics nationals, irons nationals and PCC nationals for example. Steel challenge offers 1 national match for all divisions and of course the area matches like USPSA. I guess if I was shooting USPSA matches I wouldn’t see it as a big deal.

The average activity fee USPSA matches is $2.82
The average activity fee from SCSA matches is $1.09

Total revenue generated from USPSA activities per year is $550k
SCSA is $90k

WSSC even sold out with 700 guns only has 280-300 actual competitors. Sold out doesn't mean all slots are paid for, staff slots and comped sponsored slots drop that number down. SCSA has grown tremendously over the last 5 years, actually doubling the activity based revenue. I understand the "I only shoot Steel Challenge" sentiment. When USPSA first purchased Steel Challenge it was tried being ran as a separate organization, but financially it could not stand on its own. Last year at its peak of activity it generated $92K with about 4000 unique members only shooting SCSA. In total if is was a stand alone organization it would have generated about $160k in revenue gross. WSSC entries generate about $55k and the cost to run just the one match is about $100k. Raising entry fees for WSSC to break even would be about $175/gun. However it is offset by activity and membership dues.

 

[Rio]

So as a steel challenge shooter, if we don’t participate in WSSC we’re not going to see that ROI like those that do. I am good with that, we’re not at the level to shoot the WSSC so that’s on us. It is what it is, as a lowly level 1 match organizer I will pay it and stick close to home. The fees to most of the lvl 2 matches have gotten prohibitive for a family of 4

 

[marvin02]

However it is offset by activity and membership dues.

4,000 members who shoot SC, only 300 shoot the WSSC, the match runs 45K in the red, so the other 3,700 members support them? Let them pay their own way. If it costs $175 per gun to run the natch then charge them that.

The fees to most of the lvl 2 matches have gotten prohibitive for a family of 4

Fortunately many local matches do not charge for junior shooters or charge a reduced fee. Level 2 matches are very expensive. I spent over $450 to shoot the Area 5 match. That was 2 nights in a hotel and shooting 6 guns over 3 days. That does not count ammo costs. I can shoot 11 or 12 local matches for the same amount.

 

[jakemartens]

So as a steel challenge shooter, if we don’t participate in WSSC we’re not going to see that ROI like those that do. I am good with that, we’re not at the level to shoot the WSSC so that’s on us. It is what it is, as a lowly level 1 match organizer I will pay it and stick close to home. The fees to most of the lvl 2 matches have gotten prohibitive for a family of 4

4,000 members who shoot SC, only 300 shoot the WSSC, the match runs 45K in the red, so the other 3,700 members support them? Let them pay their own way. If it costs $175 per gun to run the natch then charge them that.

Fortunately many local matches do not charge for junior shooters or charge a reduced fee. Level 2 matches are very expensive. I spent over $450 to shoot the Area 5 match. That was 2 nights in a hotel and shooting 6 guns over 3 days. That does not count ammo costs. I can shoot 11 or 12 local matches for the same amount.

Sorry I am not suggesting that those that only participate in SCSA are footing the bill for WSSC. It comes from all revenue generated by USPSA and SCSA activities and membership, not separately.
I was explaining why there isn't separated out by divisions more WSSC like USPSA Nats and that as a stand alone organization SCSA doesn't yet generate the same revenue as USPSA.
The Steel Challenge event was a singular match, once a year, it was now grown into its own sport and continues to grow which is great. I would like to see some attention focused on SCSA by the board and what can be done to help to see it continue to build more clubs. I do not want to see them do anything that would hinder its growth, change fee structures or anything like that.
There has been some discussions of just rimfire events, or adding additional stages. I have suggested creating Centerfire Master award to help promote the handgun from a holster divisions more. I think seeing it grow internationally would be a huge hit as well.
Level 2 - Level 3 shouldn't feel like going to shot a club match either

 

[racegunz]

Centerfire Master…. I like it!