Vaccines

[JeepHammer]

That's GOT to be some kind of record here!
It took an entire 12 minutes for a medical thread to go conspiracy theory.
Broke an axle on launch, made a hard right turn and smacked the guardrail of confusion head on!

 

[gregkl]

Vaccines take a long time to develop and even then long term effects aren’t known. Hard pass on being a guinea pig for that. I’ll take my chances with a very small mortality rate. Quarantining is about the least helpful thing you could do for yourself. Keep your immune system healthy, stop eating crap, exercise, get outside and get ample vitamin d.

Bingo!

 

[NKBJ]

Don't forget the silver water.

 

[gregkl]

Don't forget the silver water.

What is that?

 

[NKBJ]

That's GOT to be some kind of record here!
It took an entire 12 minutes for a medical thread to go conspiracy theory.
Broke an axle on launch, made a hard right turn and smacked the guardrail of confusion head on!

Just a passing side swipe of a thought but how could an honest discussion of a matter steeped in conspiracies not at least touch upon such?

 

[NKBJ]

What is that?

A fruit jar with a round piece of styrofoam from a meat package under the seal ring, an old transformer with alligator clips added, filled with distilled water and two pieces of pure silver extending into the water. It's my early 1990's kitchen counter version of one of those high dollar colloidal silver generators. Makes the solution that won't settle out as well as the germ killing powder for salves and poultices.

 

[gregkl]

A fruit jar with a round piece of styrofoam from a meat package under the seal ring, an old transformer with alligator clips added, filled with distilled water and two pieces of pure silver extending into the water. It's my early 1990's kitchen counter version of one of those high dollar colloidal silver generators. Makes the solution that won't settle out as well as the germ killing powder for salves and poultices.

Interesting. My wife takes colloidal silver.

 

[WWalker]

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-mandatory-covid-vaccinations-states-employers.html

 

[Jaybird1980]

Vaccines take a long time to develop and even then long term effects aren’t known. Hard pass on being a guinea pig for that. I’ll take my chances with a very small mortality rate. Quarantining is about the least helpful thing you could do for yourself. Keep your immune system healthy, stop eating crap, exercise, get outside and get ample vitamin d.

This advice is all well and good, but some of us have no choice in whether our immune system is healthy or not.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Gotta die from something, sure not gonna be some mandatory vaccine. Screw em.

 

[Brimaster]

For me personally, I have a problem with injecting any kind of dead/weak virus into my body like the flu shot and this vaccine is no different. Just like the flu shot no guarantee you will not get sick as only would cover a few specific strains and not any mutations.

Plus, it normally takes a significant amount of time and testing to get any vaccine approved with all the regulations and requirements hurtles and this one is being pushed through so what is being glossed over or given an exception?

There are just way too many variables and unknowns at this point, to even consider getting it to me.

Soon though however, I’ll have to make a decision as my company makes the flu shot mandatory to be employed so I can see them doing the same thing with this vaccine. The flu shot is one thing but this vaccine is totally different animal to me.

 

[HoughMade]

A lot of people talk tough about not getting the COVID-19 vaccine when there is no COVID-19 vaccine.

We'll see.

 

[JettaKnight]

For me personally, I have a problem with injecting any kind of dead/weak virus into my body like the flu shot and this vaccine is no different. Just like the flu shot no guarantee you will not get sick as only would cover a few specific strains and not any mutations.

Plus, it normally takes a significant amount of time and testing to get any vaccine approved with all the regulations and requirements hurtles and this one is being pushed through so what is being glossed over or given an exception?

There are just way too many variables and unknowns at this point, to even consider getting it to me.

Soon though however, I’ll have to make a decision as my company makes the flu shot mandatory to be employed so I can see them doing the same thing with this vaccine. The flu shot is one thing but this vaccine is totally different animal to me.

As I understand it (i.e. listening to Fauci interviewed on Radiolab), a coronavirus isn't as capable of (as much) mutation like influenza viruses are due to the the reduced DNA features.

ANTHONY FAUCI[/B]]Yeah, you know, it is conceivable but unpredictable and not inevitable. So COVID-19 is a brand new virus. It doesn't have the reassortment capabilities that the flu has. It doesn't have gene segments that would allow for what we call easy reassortment.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dispatches-1918

 

[gregkl]

What do you see happening Hough?

I predict that if it doesn't become mandatory either by government or an employer, there will be an uptick in those that typically don't get a flu shot that will go ahead and get this one.

But there will still be those that won't get it.

 

[HoughMade]

What do you see happening Hough?

I predict that if it doesn't become mandatory either by government or an employer, there will be an uptick in those that typically don't get a flu shot that will go ahead and get this one.

But there will still be those that won't get it.

Right now, it is being reported that polls indicate that a third of people will refuse to get vaccinated. If it is: 1) Available and 2) voluntary, I suspect that the number will be much lower. As time goes on, say over 2 years, assuming an acceptable level of complications and efficacy are demonstrated, I suspect the refusal rate to be in the low single digits.

If it becomes mandatory (right now vaccines are only mandatory under narrow circumstances), obviously more people will get it than if it were purely voluntary.

I don't care about 100% vaccination. I suspect the public health officials don't either as that is not necessary to reduce the virus below pandemic and epidemic levels.

Personally, I am interested in seeing whether the same people who claim they will not get it will be complaining when (and if) it is rolled out, but they are not high on the priority list to get it. I think it's pretty clear that if there is an effective vaccine, there will not be enough for 7+ billion people and not even 330 Million Americans for a while. it will have to go to the most vulnerable and then the healthcare workers first and others who have greater exposure before it trickles down to the society in general, and that both makes sense and is fine with me. Once the most vulnerable and the most exposed get it, I think life can fully return to "normal" (if it hasn't already) while more and more people get vaccinated.

 

[BugI02]

The calculation of percentage of the population needing to have some form of immunity to achieve herd immunity is

(1 - 1/Rzero)

If current numbers are correct and Rzero is 2.4 to 2.8 for WuVid, then 58 to 64% gets it done

The highest estimate I ever saw for WuVid was 4.8, so taking that as a worst case 79% gets it done. Why should everyone have to get vaccinated for this?

One factor that damps the enthusiasm for the flu shot is its self-admitted low effectivity. I think you're doing pretty good when ~45% of the people still get a shot when it is 30% effective against the illness

 

[Robert Richardson]

A lot of people talk tough about not getting the COVID-19 vaccine when there is no COVID-19 vaccine.

We'll see.

Yeah, we will see won't we. I will repeat just for you. I will not take it.

 

[gregkl]

The calculation of percentage of the population needing to have some form of immunity to achieve herd immunity is

(1 - 1/Rzero)

If current numbers are correct and Rzero is 2.4 to 2.8 for WuVid, then 58 to 64% gets it done

The highest estimate I ever saw for WuVid was 4.8, so taking that as a worst case 79% gets it done. Why should everyone have to get vaccinated for this?

One factor that damps the enthusiasm for the flu shot is its self-admitted low effectivity. I think you're doing pretty good when ~45% of the people still get a shot when it is 30% effective against the illness

I heard a doc today saying 60% would get it done. So he lines up with what you are saying.

 

[HoughMade]

Yeah, we will see won't we. I will repeat just for you. I will not take it.

It is your right and I hope it remains your right.

Assuming it eventually exists, I don't even expect you to thank the people who get and thereby protect the rest.

If somewhere in the 60% range turns out to be accurate, we'll be fine without a mandate....most places.

 

[NKBJ]

If the point of the vaccines (yes, plural) was to save us from the bank bug then maybe people would be willing to take it without coercion.
But it's not the point and coercion will be employed.