Vapers - Any Worries Now?

[1775usmarine]

 

[Kurr]

Oh, I agree with you on the corporate angle 100%. Just like with marijuana, its bad bad bad with nothing in it having any medicinal uses keep it schedule 1, but we have a special patented synthetic named marinol that we want to all the doctors to prescribe instead.

Generally a vape juice is made of 3 things, nicotine either freebase or salts, with salts being what occurs naturally in the plant and freebase being a bit harsher and harder for the body to absorb, propylene glycol which is used in breathing treatments and excipient in inhalable medicines and therapies but in this instance acts as a "flavor carrier" because it does cary the flavor to the user well but doesn't produce as much or as dense of a "vapor" and glycerin which doesn't carry flavor well, but produces the denser larger amounts of vapor for people doing "the clouds". Then they add flavor and whatever other crap their putting in on top of that, but those 3 things are the base of all non thc juices.

I'm with the guy above too, I will never say its "safe" but I would say for harm reduction, using just nicotine an glycerin I'm at least 98% lower than I was when smoking and probably less than sitting in traffic with my window down. Every person has to decide for themselves though and people should do their own research.

 

[ws6guy]

I'll add my thoughts since I've been vaping for a few years. For the 1st few years things were great, I could breathe easier and didn't smell like smoke. I was using devices that didn't produce tons of clouds. Around February this I changed to a device that produces at least 3-4 times more vapor thus caused me to go through a lot more juice. Since switching to this device I can get terrible wheezing and coughing if I vape too much which is very easy to do. It seems that the vape industry keeps putting out new equipment that produce bigger and bigger clouds. Back when I started a 15ml bottle of juice could easily last 3-4 days but with the new equipment it is very easy to blow 15ml or more in one day. They vaping industry is ever evolving, new equipment is constantly coming out to achieve a better experience. However just maybe our lungs can only take so much vapor before they start to fight back.

The crazy thing is that once you use devices that give you big hits it is hard to go back to a smaller device, it's like going from a Marlboro red to an ultra light. I'm in process of quitting vaping, my current nicotine level is ultra low so now it's basically just the habit.

 

[eldirector]

Surprise! Dumping a bunch of chemicals in your body that aren't supposed to be there is unhealthy. Who could have known?

 

[churchmouse]

OK. Let me just say that none of this crap and I mean none of it has a single positive to offer your overall health. If it is time to stop something then just freaking stop.
Get pissy with me if you wish but seriously, it aint that freaking hard to do. Personal experiences. Observed many who just put down a lot of serious habits and walked. Better off for it.

The Vap industry does not want you to stop. You are a dedicated and "HOOKED" costumer. See the light. Find a hobby. Live longer. Please.

Flame suit is on. I am ready but I have heard it all so

 

[ws6guy]

OK. Let me just say that none of this crap and I mean none of it has a single positive to offer your overall health. If it is time to stop something then just freaking stop.
Get pissy with me if you wish but seriously, it aint that freaking hard to do. Personal experiences. Observed many who just put down a lot of serious habits and walked. Better off for it.

The Vap industry does not want you to stop. You are a dedicated and "HOOKED" costumer. See the light. Find a hobby. Live longer. Please.

Flame suit is on. I am ready but I have heard it all so

Nothing but truth here. Even though I have struggled with smoking for about 22 years, I just cannot seem to quit for long term. I have quit drinking (except for an occasional beer) and I have quit caffeine. Dammit can I not have just have one bad habit

 

[churchmouse]

Nothing but truth here. Even though I have struggled with smoking for about 22 years, I just cannot seem to quit for long term. I have quit drinking (except for an occasional beer) and I have quit caffeine. Dammit can I not have just have one bad habit

Oh you can have as many as you can stand my friend. I have ran the course in my life just never ever picked up a Cigarette. Saw no joy in such a nasty habit. I did smoke a lot of that other stuff but the age of Aquarius and all that. Decided one day it was not for me anymore and walked. Same with drinking and brother I could and did drink. It became hurtful so nope, no more. Just water now and the occasional sprite with some really good home made

I see myself as a rechargeable battery. Take in food etc. Make stored energy with it and dump the waste. Adding crap to that mix just slows me down. And believe me I have added my share and yours of crap to that mix.

Not trying to preach. Just sharing what I have done and seen. The spouse (CKW) smoked for years. One day she said "Honey, you might be rght on this".........

She just stopped smoking. Done. That was 10 years ago. She is far the better for it.

You all do as you need. That is up to you.

 

[JHB]

I smoked 2 1/2 to 3 packs a day for 40 years. Quitting is easy when you can't breath. When i quit I couldn't walk across the street to the mail box with out running out of breath Fifteen years later I can make it to the end of the block.
The choice is this do you want to live or die. Vaping is no different than cigarettes just how long it takes to kill you.

There is always the way my old neighbor played the game. He knew what the problem was ( his wife was a nurse ) He out off quitting until he was bad enough the doctor could put him on disability. He has cut down on his smoking now it is only weed.

Your life your decision don't make others pay for your poor choices.

 

[Ziggidy]

Switching from cigarettes to vaping is just switching from one addiction to another.

Those that believe the chemicals in vaping are "ok" because of its use in medications (i.e. inhalers and such) are just blowing smoke to substantiate their addiction. Taking 1 - 2 puffs from an inhaler 4 times per day is not anywhere near the level of vape that others do. I also know individuals who cannot use inhalers because of the alleged inert chemicals and must use a nebulizer instead.

Vaping is not good, period. It was sold as a way out of one addiction as being safe......y'all have been lied to again.

 

[Mongo59]

Time for an intervention boys!

If you stop smoking or vaping... YOU WILL HAVE MORE MONEY FOR GUNS AND AMMO!

Start the only addiction that really counts...

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK. Let me just say that none of this crap and I mean none of it has a single positive to offer your overall health. If it is time to stop something then just freaking stop.
Get pissy with me if you wish but seriously, it aint that freaking hard to do. Personal experiences. Observed many who just put down a lot of serious habits and walked. Better off for it.

The Vap industry does not want you to stop. You are a dedicated and "HOOKED" costumer. See the light. Find a hobby. Live longer. Please.

Flame suit is on. I am ready but I have heard it all so

Ya big meanie!

 

[chocktaw2]

Oh you can have as many as you can stand my friend. I have ran the course in my life just never ever picked up a Cigarette. Saw no joy in such a nasty habit. I did smoke a lot of that other stuff but the age of Aquarius and all that. Decided one day it was not for me anymore and walked. Same with drinking and brother I could and did drink. It became hurtful so nope, no more. Just water now and the occasional sprite with some really good home made

I see myself as a rechargeable battery. Take in food etc. Make stored energy with it and dump the waste. Adding crap to that mix just slows me down. And believe me I have added my share and yours of crap to that mix.

Not trying to preach. Just sharing what I have done and seen. The spouse (CKW) smoked for years. One day she said "Honey, you might be rght on this".........

She just stopped smoking. Done. That was 10 years ago. She is far the better for it.

You all do as you need. That is up to you.

I'm glad I gave it up. 44 yrs is enough.

 

[SmileDocHill]

There are a lot of politics and corp. money to be made around the subject of vaping complicated by it being new so any science that is out there is by definition not based on long term studies. Politicians see a big revenue source to regulate (see big money - sell the need for regulation - now big money needs to support you so regulation goes your way, Gov. 101. No different than anything else) All that to say people are getting messages from healthcare providers, Gov., companies, and even organizations like WHO and they all have their motivations to skew the message. It does't help that the media is.. well, the media so hearing anything from them doesn't help you critically evaluate the information because who knows where they heard it and how they messed up the actual information before putting their spin on it.

The "safer" sales angle was based on the concept that tobacco has to be heated/burned to produce the carcinogens. A vape mechanism doesn't heat it nearly as much as burning the tobacco like a cig. On that front it IS safer than smoking. That is also why chewing tobacco/snuff/chew has zero connection to oral cancer*.

We don't anticipate seeing any of the same cancers that we see with smoking and if we see any it will likely (like it is with smoking) take years for results. So on the cancer front, it's like the early years of smoking... you'll have several years of large populations vaping before you'll be able to attribute any particular types of cancer with vaping.
Cancer is only one aspect of risk/damage/safety though!

With vaping the issue is going to be the particle size and possibly what the particle is. What you inhale is technically an aerosol. They are seeing chronic irritations to lung tissue from vaping. The current thought is that instead of finding out years later vaping causes lung cancer (like the history of smoking) we are probably going to see problems like COPD and other lung issues. This is NOT good. There are lung issues that used to be classified as COPD that we now know are their own separate condition and once discovered you are going to die from it. It will take 1-10 years but there is no treatment for it.

Example of motivation causing the message to veer from simple facts: WHO (world health organization) is on a campaign against nicotine addiction. Details matter, they call it that because it includes smoking, chewing, and vaping. Their information discusses all the risks as if they are the same. They are NOT. It is a little disingenuous in my opinion. If you group these all together you can come up with a nice list of health issues but not all of the issues come with all the delivery systems.


*Yes I'm a dentist and I'm telling you chewing tobacco does not increase your chances of oral cancer... destroys teeth and gums... but not a cancer risk.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

There are a lot of politics and corp. money to be made around the subject of vaping complicated by it being new so any science that is out there is by definition not based on long term studies. Politicians see a big revenue source to regulate (see big money - sell the need for regulation - now big money needs to support you so regulation goes your way, Gov. 101. No different than anything else) All that to say people are getting messages from healthcare providers, Gov., companies, and even organizations like WHO and they all have their motivations to skew the message. It does't help that the media is.. well, the media so hearing anything from them doesn't help you critically evaluate the information because who knows where they heard it and how they messed up the actual information before putting their spin on it.

The "safer" sales angle was based on the concept that tobacco has to be heated/burned to produce the carcinogens. A vape mechanism doesn't heat it nearly as much as burning the tobacco like a cig. On that front it IS safer than smoking. That is also why chewing tobacco/snuff/chew has zero connection to oral cancer*.

We don't anticipate seeing any of the same cancers that we see with smoking and if we see any it will likely (like it is with smoking) take years for results. So on the cancer front, it's like the early years of smoking... you'll have several years of large populations vaping before you'll be able to attribute any particular types of cancer with vaping.
Cancer is only one aspect of risk/damage/safety though!

With vaping the issue is going to be the particle size and possibly what the particle is. What you inhale is technically an aerosol. They are seeing chronic irritations to lung tissue from vaping. The current thought is that instead of finding out years later vaping causes lung cancer (like the history of smoking) we are probably going to see problems like COPD and other lung issues. This is NOT good. There are lung issues that used to be classified as COPD that we now know are their own separate condition and once discovered you are going to die from it. It will take 1-10 years but there is no treatment for it.

Example of motivation causing the message to veer from simple facts: WHO (world health organization) is on a campaign against nicotine addiction. Details matter, they call it that because it includes smoking, chewing, and vaping. Their information discusses all the risks as if they are the same. They are NOT. It is a little disingenuous in my opinion. If you group these all together you can come up with a nice list of health issues but not all of the issues come with all the delivery systems.


*Yes I'm a dentist and I'm telling you chewing tobacco does not increase your chances of oral cancer... destroys teeth and gums... but not a cancer risk.

Interesting! Even the tobacco industry says it does increase your oral cancer risk... Or is your contention that they're forced to say so as a CYA measure?

 

[SmileDocHill]

Interesting! Even the tobacco industry says it does increase your oral cancer risk... Or is your contention that they're forced to say so as a CYA measure?

Very slight uptick in pancreatic cancer, slight as in hard to say if it's directly connected.

 

[Thor]

Vaping, an industry where the general population is the willing subject size of the experiment. Let's just sit back and see how it turns out.

Do what makes you happy as long as I don't have to end up paying for it. If you let your children do this you are a bad parent and should be slapped hard...continuously...until you stop.

 

[Ziggidy]

That is also why chewing tobacco/snuff/chew has zero connection to oral cancer*.

*Yes I'm a dentist and I'm telling you chewing tobacco does not increase your chances of oral cancer... destroys teeth and gums... but not a cancer risk.

With all due respect, I know doctors that would disagree.

 

[churchmouse]

With all due respect, I know doctors that would disagree.

I am a cancer survivor. My son was taken by cancer. In this I have had so many deep conversations with the people that deal with this daily. Opinions vary as they should.

Some of us are more susceptible than others by genetics and where we put ourselves. My son was working in Northern Indiana at a facility that produced solvents for paint and cleaning. The things he described that made him leave that place were hair raising but he needed a job to support his daughter and work was thin up there. The place was closed down for safety violations. We are sure that is what took him.
But many who worked there had no ill effects past the daily headaches etc.

I worked around a lot of the same materials and others early in my life in doing the work I chose. Serious stuff that has since been taken away. Welding/brazing materials. Solvents and some rally deadly refrigerants. R-11 and R-123 come to mind. Both are now known Carcinogens.
Some of the equipment rooms we worked in had barrels of God knows what in them. The in house people used some of that stuff to clean parts. It would take the paint right off of anything. My Dr's said that people in my profession are seeing a lot of work related illness from those exposures. I lived. They are still not sure why but I did. My son did not make it.

Will smoking/vaping kill you...???
Will excessive drinking kill you...???
Will drug abuse kill you....??
Can you be killed by a drunk driver....????
The list goes on and on.

But in this why. Why even pick up such a nasty habit.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Vaping is stupid and harmful.

it’s not that difficult. Need nicotine? Chew gum.

Want to look cool? Grow a beard

 

[NKBJ]

Did smoking tobacco of centuries past produce cancer to the extent it happens now?
I've wondered about the fertilizers used. Wondered if the concentration of isotopes through industrial processing in the manufacture of fertilizers has resulted in more cancer. Years ago there was a study that went public with the anti-smoking campaign that showed the concentrations of gamma emitting isotopes at the major branches within the lunges of smokers with the source for the isotopes being the fertilizers used by tobacco farmers. So OK, of course that's where they came from. But, does that mean the fertilizers actually being used caused more cancer? Beats me.