Vendors charging way too much for Primers

[bwframe]

Are the "bad guy" gun shop vendors we are talking about getting their primers from the manufacturer at the same price and volume as before the gundemic?

 

[Fixer]

But the reverse point could be made as well: those most vocal about retailers raising prices are often the "classified flippers," because that's where they get their inventory.

During the last ammo run, some of the people complaining loudest about "gouging" were in fact the "flippers," who needed cheap inventory from retailers so they could turn around and re-sell at a profit. When stores raised their prices, it cut into their profit margin for resale, and they were pissed. They got on here and started posts exactly like the OP's, urging people to make calls, write letters, and generally ostracize and boycott specific retailers. They badgered places like WalMart to keep prices low...then sat outside the store waiting for their allocation to come in, and snapped it all up, resulting in no ammo on the shelves.

When challenged on their methods, some defended themselves by saying "I'm on a fixed income, the only way I can afford a day at the range is with the profits I make selling stuff."

I have no way of knowing if the OP was one of these people, so I'll leave it at that and take his statement at face value.

But keep in mind the old adage, "the smeller is the feller," and those quickest to criticize the sharks, are often times other sharks.

This could be true as well. I can only speak for myself.

And I know that if I don't like the price I don't have to buy whatever they are selling. Either way I can still have an opinion about whether I think it's right or wrong to do it.

 

[Fixer]

A lot to unpack here.

You are free to support those you choose, however to suggest that businesses that are trying to survive turbulent times are immoral is just unfair and may result in far fewer choices for all of us.

Ah, I just cannot get onboard with mega global corporate companies deciding what free people can sell...

Then let those trying to sell sit on it until they have it proven to them they are out of the market. So you think it is immoral to buy low and sell high and the powers should stop it?

I do think it's immoral to knowingly take advantage of a situation for profit. I would like to see less of it happening on a regular basis with the justification of "if you don't like it don't buy it".

Call me old fashioned, but I don't believe it's right to screw my fellow man just because I can, or because everyone else is doing it.

 

[shibumiseeker]

400% profit margin isn't basic economics.

It’s easy to tear down a strawman, but it’s a poor argument tactic. I never said anything about 300-400% profit and you know it. If you just want to avoid my argument so you can feel “right” then go ahead, but I’m not going to play.

 

[Fixer]

It’s easy to tear down a strawman, but it’s a poor argument tactic. I never said anything about 300-400% profit and you know it. If you just want to avoid my argument so you can feel “right” then go ahead, but I’m not going to play.

I never advocated anyone loosing money to sell something at the price it was when they bought it. People are buying at $30 and selling at $100 inside of a couple months. I'm not avoiding any argument. Not actually trying to argue the point at all. Just stating my opinion on the subject. You don't have to like it or agree.

 

[Ingomike]

I do think it's immoral to knowingly take advantage of a situation for profit. I would like to see less of it happening on a regular basis with the justification of "if you don't like it don't buy it".

Call me old fashioned, but I don't believe it's right to screw my fellow man just because I can, or because everyone else is doing it.

We are drifting from the original point. A business that once made a small profit selling on high volume is gouging if they have to change their pricing model to survive selling low volume in times of low availability? They still must generate the same income selling a small percentage of their former volume. You make it sound like they are just rolling in profit without accounting for changing volumes.

You can believe what you want, but if everyone is doing it there likely is a sound business reason.

I have long believed that what drives the secondary market is often retailers selling below market value. The resellers sit at WM on the day ammo comes in at WM. Then when a regular Joe goes to get some ammo, there is none. WM sells .22 at $10 a hundred to the resellers who get $20 on the secondary market. We would all be better off if WM sold it at $16 or $17 taking the profit out of the secondary market.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Some here should own a run a business for a few years and see if working for wages or working for wages and a good profit margin is a better option...

 

[johny5]

I have long believed that what drives the secondary market is often retailers selling below market value. The resellers sit at WM on the day ammo comes in at WM. Then when a regular Joe goes to get some ammo, there is none. WM sells .22 at $10 a hundred to the resellers who get $20 on the secondary market. We would all be better off if WM sold it at $16 or $17 taking the profit out of the secondary market.

Bingo.

Raise the price in the primary market. This closes the gap between primary and secondary market, eliminates the arbitrage opportunity. It also reduces the impulse to stockpile.

This brings inventory back, which ends the shortage.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I never advocated anyone loosing money to sell something at the price it was when they bought it. People are buying at $30 and selling at $100 inside of a couple months. I'm not avoiding any argument. Not actually trying to argue the point at all. Just stating my opinion on the subject. You don't have to like it or agree.

So is a retailer who buys something at wholesale and turns around that day and sells at a 10-100% markup (typical retail markup) also immoral? What’s the difference? If you want to argue that cornering the market just so you can charge whatever you want is unfair then I’ll agree with you. But if I buy something at a time that everyone could have bought because supply was plentiful and want to sell some at a time of tight supply and took the risk of having my money not liquid during that time then that’s not gouging, or even profiteering. You can not like it all you want, but it’s how the free market works, again econ101. Communism and socialism are hallmarked by taking away what is freely earned and distributing to those perceived to “need.”

Please stop saying “this is just my opinion.” Of course it is, and if you state your opinion and someone points out that either they disagree, or that there is a logical flaw in your thinking then that’s the price of stating your opinion.

 

[Fixer]

We are drifting from the original point. A business that once made a small profit selling on high volume is gouging if they have to change their pricing model to survive selling low volume in times of low availability? They still must generate the same income selling a small percentage of their former volume. You make it sound like they are just rolling in profit without accounting for changing volumes.

You can believe what you want, but if everyone is doing it there likely is a sound business reason.

I have long believed that what drives the secondary market is often retailers selling below market value. The resellers sit at WM on the day ammo comes in at WM. Then when a regular Joe goes to get some ammo, there is none. WM sells .22 at $10 a hundred to the resellers who get $20 on the secondary market. We would all be better off if WM sold it at $16 or $17 taking the profit out of the secondary market.

I don't think that is the norm for most small businesses. I support my local gun shops. I recently about a month ago or so purchases some LP primers at $39 a brick. It was a little high but not excessive. I went into another shop that had primers and they were $100 only a week later. I'm not against making a profit or keeping the doors open but someone is taking advantage of the situation when there is a $60 difference in pricing. Those businesses that regularly do this will not stay in business long.

I don't believe everyone is doing it. I understand WM makes it hard for companies to compete and that's a whole different animal. I routinely pay a little more to support local businesses as I know they can't compete with that. Luckily WM is working on taking themselves out of the firearms and ammunition business. I don't buy any ammo there.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Some here should own a run a business for a few years and see if working for wages or working for wages and a good profit margin is a better option...

Ha! I did run my own manufacturing business for 13 years. I sold it and semi-retired and now I work for a wage doing something I enjoy which means I’m not really working.

Some of these arguments I’m seeing reminds me of the attitudes I saw working disaster response as a volunteer. Rather than gratitude that help was available, there was often a “you owe me” attitude, and political leaning had little to do with it.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I have been selling primers online for about a month now, i paid 19.00 -23.00 a brick of 1,000 delivered about 7-8 years ago.
They are selling at auction for 160.00 - 180.00 plus shipping per brick the past two weeks. I must be the boogie man for investing my money years ago with products that I knew would eventually make a huge profit?
Just wait until GI M16 get stupid again... Supply and Demand...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Ha! I did run my own manufacturing business for 13 years. I sold it and semi-retired and now I work for a wage doing something I enjoy which means I’m not really working.

Some of these arguments I’m seeing reminds me of the attitudes I saw working disaster response as a volunteer. Rather than gratitude that help was available, there was often a “you owe me” attitude, and political leaning had little to do with it.

Im at that point since this past August myself, im seriously thinking of the same thing...

Some of it is pretty funny to read.... Friends, Family are a separate subject.
And I dont sell here... I buy here...
I dont have a conscious when selling to those that are unprepared. Business is Business. Its the American way....

 

[asevans]

I think anybody who is paying stupid high prices for ammo or reloading supplies is stupid. Find something else to do for a while.
AA

 

[Fixer]

Im at that point since this past August myself, im seriously thinking of the same thing...

Some of it is pretty funny to read.... Friends, Family are a separate subject.
And I dont sell here... I buy here...
I dont have a conscious when selling to those that are unprepared. Business is Business. Its the American way....

Buying them 7-8 years ago isn't contributing to the shortage at the moment. There are some businesses that are selling them at that price and they are getting them from the vendors at the same price they were months ago. They are just taking advantage of the current situation. I don't think it's a sound business model. Time will tell.

Right or wrong is not for me to decide. I have my opinion based on my own beliefs and situation. Same as everyone else. I'm not attacking someone because I don't like how they view the situation.

 

[johny5]

I think anybody who is paying stupid high prices for ammo or reloading supplies is stupid. Find something else to do for a while.
AA

This is the other aspect of this that some people are not comfortable with. The truth is that what one person considers 'stupid high' prices might be comfortably within another person's budget.

I'll admit that there are plenty of things that I would enjoy owning that are out of my budget. But I do not begrudge others who have them.

Not saying you do, asevans. But it is clear that some think that way.

I'll be glad if/when we get back to 'normal' prices. In the meantime, let's all remember that we're in it together.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I don't think that is the norm for most small businesses. I support my local gun shops. I recently about a month ago or so purchases some LP primers at $39 a brick. It was a little high but not excessive. I went into another shop that had primers and they were $100 only a week later. I'm not against making a profit or keeping the doors open but someone is taking advantage of the situation when there is a $60 difference in pricing. Those businesses that regularly do this will not stay in business long.
.

Yep, you should take a few hundred thousand of your hard earned money and open and run a business.
You would be the gunstore owner that will do a 20 dollar transfer on a gun you can order yourself and make a 15-40 percent profit margin on... But settled on a 20 dollar service charge that might take an hour to fulfill with a slow nics and paperwork time....

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Buying them 7-8 years ago isn't contributing to the shortage at the moment. There are some businesses that are selling them at that price and they are getting them from the vendors at the same price they were months ago. They are just taking advantage of the current situation. I don't think it's a sound business model. Time will tell.

Right or wrong is not for me to decide. I have my opinion based on my own beliefs and situation. Same as everyone else. I'm not attacking someone because I don't like how they view the situation.

Its filling a hole that the overbuying has created... It certainly helps with the shortage. If this continues until next year I will be selling products I have bought this year.

 

[Fixer]

Yep, you should take a few hundred thousand of your hard earned money and open and run a business.
You would be the gunstore owner that will do a 20 dollar transfer on a gun you can order yourself and make a 15-40 percent profit margin on... But settled on a 20 dollar service charge that might take an hour to fulfill with a slow nics and paperwork time....

Most that charge $20 transfer fee don't carry inventory that I have run across. I don't have a problem paying the 15-40% on if I can find it local. I have done both and the guy I run transfers thru charges $15.

 

[Dirtebiker]

This is way oversimplified but still makes a fair point. But to use the example, the retailer still has all the fixed costs of the business while selling 10% of the product they usually sell. Just how do they keep,the lights on? Heck, the store is out of guns and ammo to sell, just how do they make any money to pay their bills, much less profit? Doubt they made a fortune selling dirt cheap ammo and overun guns after the last election.

Before criticizing these 2A suppliers take a few online business courses and see what items like to run a business budget in uncertain times...

If they’re “out of guns and ammo”, that means they sold all they had, right? If they sold all their stock in a very short time, I would assume they could cover their costs for a few months.