Vendors charging way too much for Primers

[Ingomike]

If they’re “out of guns and ammo”, that means they sold all they had, right? If they sold all their stock in a very short time, I would assume they could cover their costs for a few months.

Nope! The mistake is thinking that have huge inventory. Most of today's retail is just in time. As they sold it, nothing came in behind it. They have no need to sell what little they do get now at any discount and many will add premium to it.

 

[Ingomike]

I think part of the disconnect for some of you here is the mistaken thinking that the prices during the glut were "normal", they were not. They were actually deflated! Now we have a shortage and prices that are inflated seem out of control...

 

[Dirtebiker]

I’m not really in this argument.
I’m just saying that a small shop that carries , let’s use easy numbers, $100,000 in inventory and sells on average $20,000 per month, all of a sudden sells $90,000 in one month, can surely cover a month or two in expenses even if they sold nothing.

 

[Ingomike]

I’m not really in this argument.
I’m just saying that a small shop that carries , let’s use easy numbers, $100,000 in inventory and sells on average $20,000 per month, all of a sudden sells $90,000 in one month, can surely cover a month or two in expenses even if they sold nothing.

It just doesn't work that way. Most retailers would usually have on hand what they need for the JIT schedule they are on. If they are on a every other week schedule and sell 3 Glock 19 per week they usually get 6 more per cycle. They did not have 30 of them to sell in a back room. Now occasionally if the distribution gets backed up they may offer an incentive to take more.

Also that inventory you mention includes stuff not in short supply that is still available but due to the lack of traffic for the hotter items, Glock 19, there is less demand for Glock 19 accessories...

 

[Dirtebiker]

It just doesn't work that way. Most retailers would usually have on hand what they need for the JIT schedule they are on. If they are on a every other week schedule and sell 3 Glock 19 per week they usually get 6 more per cycle. They did not have 30 of them to sell in a back room. Now occasionally if the distribution gets backed up they may offer an incentive to take more.

Also that inventory you mention includes stuff not in short supply that is still available but due to the lack of traffic for the hotter items, Glock 19, there is less demand for Glock 19 accessories...

Understood, but there’s also the other random guns he’s had hanging on the wall and sitting in the cases for months that all of a sudden sell and ALL the excess ammo he’s had sitting around... along with everything extra (if he saw it coming) he ordered expecting the rush.
And yes, some shops DO have 30 G-19’s (and 17’s, 26’s, 27’s, 43’s, etc.) on a shelf ready to sell (that they get to sell all at once when people freak out over electing an extremist liberal president or we get hit with a pandemic).

 

[patience0830]

Can y'all get together and do something about a real problem. Wasting a lot of precious time here accomplishing nothing. Go cut some wood or read to a child. Or cook lunch for a friend or family member tomorrow. Do something real that does some real good.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

Many dealers thought it was great when the ammo and reloading supplies started flying off the shelves, until they realized that some of those items would cost more to replace than what they just sold them for (it's happened to me several times in the last few months). When the panic started, I held my prices down since I had a significant stockpile (I always buy extra before an election year). Boy was that a mistake. I was selling a 50 round box of 9mm for $10.29 plus tax during the initial rush. When I replaced it, I was paying over $12 per box. Started selling that for $14.02 plus tax, paid $16 to replace it (are you seeing a trend here?). In all honesty, I usually base my prices on replacement cost. Wholesale prices were just changing so fast and we were so busy that I simply couldn't keep up. Things have somewhat stabilized since then.

Many people think that the reason I have such a wide variety of hard to find calibers in stock during a shortage is because my prices are high. The reality is the opposite, my prices are high because I have a wide variety of hard to find calibers. To be able to maintain inventory that is in high demand during an unprecedented shortage requires me to go outside my normal distributors (who are telling me that it could be early 2022 before I start to see primers again). Using secondary suppliers means paying more. I'm not talking about a little more, I'm talking about A LOT more. I was paying over $1 per round for .380 a month ago, and it's even more difficult to find now. For those of you out there saying "I've seen it for less than $1 per round, you don't have to pay that much", I'm sure you have seen it for less. The fact of the matter is, I can't be everywhere and get all of the best deals all of the time. Almost all of my suppliers are placing limits on purchases. 6 months ago I could order a pallets of 9mm if I could find it, now I'm lucky if they let me order more than 2 cases. Most of the ammunition I have coming in from normal sources I ordered in MARCH, it's been on back order for over 7 months and it's just trickling in. My distributor refuses to even place any more primers on backorder.

Do I still get ammunition at the "old prices" from distributors? Yes, occasionally I do, in very small quantities. Why don't I sell these small quantities cheaper? For the same reason I wouldn't sell an ounce of gold for $500 if someone sold it to me for $400, it would cost me more to replace it. Ammunition, firearms, reloading components, etc., are a commodity. If I get lucky and get a case of 9mm for $200 and sell it for $240 and then pay $700 to replace it, that doesn't make good business sense, it would just be plain stupid.

I've been doing this long enough to remember the last few panic buying frenzies. When the music stops, I always get burned on the last products I purchased since I payed so much for them. It averages out when I figure in the few lucky deals I get during the shortage. It all goes back to replacement cost. If I buy a box of ammo for $50 and the price drops dramatically before it sells, I'll sell it below cost without looking back. If the $50 box of ammo can be replaced for $25 a month later, I'll sell it for $28.04 plus tax.

Dealing with large quantities of product at prices that are significantly higher than normal during a shortage in an unstable market entails significant risk. I prefer stability and normal prices to all of the uncertainty. I tell my customers if they have a decent supply they probably shouldn't buy more right now. I'm not trying to rip anyone off, I'm just trying to make sure that the products I sell are available to those who need them.

I could go into a much more in depth rant about this and similar subjects (like increased manufacturing and shipping costs) but I think this gets some of the main points I'm trying to make across.

Like many others have said, "If you don't like the price, don't buy it".

 

[shibumiseeker]

Can y'all get together and do something about a real problem. Wasting a lot of precious time here accomplishing nothing. Go cut some wood or read to a child. Or cook lunch for a friend or family member tomorrow. Do something real that does some real good.

I’m usually on the can when I am posting, though sometimes I am taking a break between cutting wood (no, really!), so my biggest accomplishment here is a comfortable bowel movement.

Wasting time to yell at people for wasting time is amusingly ironic, and as old as the net itself.

 

[churchmouse]

I’m usually on the can when I am posting, though sometimes I am take a break between cutting wood (no, really!), so my biggest accomplishment here is a comfortable bowel movement.

Wasting time to yell at people for wasting time is amusingly ironic, and as old as the net itself.

But I do see his point. There is NADA we can do to control any market.
What is helpful would be to pay attention to what's what outside your sphere of influence. Political and social strife at these levels mixed with an election of this importance and the guns and accessory's are flying off the shelves.

Stock up. When its cheap stock up. Don't buy just enough ammo for 1 range trip. Stock up. I know some folks are struggling right now and budgets are tight but we just went through a big time price lull so really, do what you can to stock up and don't shoot up everything you have and wonder what just happened.

A good friend owns Badger Creek Firearms in Mooresville. He was wiped out of everything in short order when the run started. Just recently he has managed to put some pieces back in the cases and a small amount of ammo on the shelves. People see the ammo and want to buy it all. He only sells it with a gun purchase. It is sort of amusing to watch and hear them pout about that.

 

[patience0830]

I’m usually on the can when I am posting, though sometimes I am take a break between cutting wood (no, really!), so my biggest accomplishment here is a comfortable bowel movement.

Wasting time to yell at people for wasting time is amusingly ironic, and as old as the net itself.

Glad somebody got the irony. Can posting myself.

Real question is, if you have primers, why aren't they built into ammo. Time is coming we may need it.
Personally, I need to get busy using some components.

 

[johny5]

Stock up. When its cheap stock up. Don't buy just enough ammo for 1 range trip. Stock up.

Saving this as a reminder for myself when shelves are full, again. Not sure how many times I need to go through this cycle before I learn...

 

[churchmouse]

Saving this as a reminder for myself when shelves are full, again. Not sure how many times I need to go through this cycle before I learn...

I have been able to increase what I haver on hand over the years ad I was shooting more and racing less.
Sandy hook really slapped me in the face as I had never seen anything like that.
I had just replenished everything in the ammo locker just as the news was sounding off about that terrible tragedy.
Ever since we stay focused on these things. And we have limited the calibers we have to stock.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Glad somebody got the irony. Can posting myself.

Real question is, if you have primers, why aren't they built into ammo. Time is coming we may need it.
Personally, I need to get busy using some components.

In my house some components and accessories are bought just for future resale, its not like this is the first time in the past 40 years... It has no impact at all with the components and loaded ammunition in the conex for family use...

 

[shibumiseeker]

Glad somebody got the irony. Can posting myself.

Real question is, if you have primers, why aren't they built into ammo. Time is coming we may need it.
Personally, I need to get busy using some components.

If I had brass and bullets for all of the primers and powder I have, and I had a Dillon 1050, I’d be doing nothing but loading for the next year. Besides, I have to have something to gouge people with.

Really though, reloading is as much of a hobby for me as shooting. I have way more loaded ammo than I will ever need in my life (all bought in times of cheap and plenty) and I will often spend a few hours loading a single round, shooting it, loading, shooting, repeat until the brass fails. Then because I am a cheap SOB, the next couple hours will be spent reclaiming lead out of my bullet trap then casting new ones.

My stock, like all of my preps, are a hedge against shortage, to help out friends occasionally (real friends, the kind who help me out occasionally), and to fleece the unprepared who, in times of plenty, mock anyone who stocks up (plenty of those people crying right now). Oh, and right now I am in line for a flu shot...

 

[shibumiseeker]

Saving this as a reminder for myself when shelves are full, again. Not sure how many times I need to go through this cycle before I learn...

I started getting serious about shooting just as ‘86 happened and I kick myself for not ordering the $600 Uzis you would see in SOF magazine. Taught me at an early age so when ‘94 happened I had been sitting in a pile of AR mags. Since then my gun hobby has been largely self-sustaining.

 

[VERT]

Are the "bad guy" gun shop vendors we are talking about getting their primers from the manufacturer at the same price and volume as before the gundemic?

No, at least the local shop that I work with is not. He can not order primers or reloading Bullets currently. Any ammo he can get is limited and wholesale prices way way up. Regardless of his current inventory he needs to adjust retail prices to reflect the current replacement cost.

My Dad retired and works at Cabelas. They are still getting very limited inventory of ammo and primers at pre panic prices. Our assumption is that inventory was ordered and locked months ago. Dad watches it it the floor with a per customer limit. Then a family of 6-8 people come in and wipe it out in the first 10 minutes. Hey, where do you think the gun show inventory comes from???

 

[Clay Pigeon]

...

 

[Clay Pigeon]

If I had brass and bullets for all of the primers and powder I have, and I had a Dillon 1050, I’d be doing nothing but loading for the next year. Besides, I have to have something to gouge people with.

Really though, reloading is as much of a hobby for me as shooting. I have way more loaded ammo than I will ever need in my life (all bought in times of cheap and plenty) and I will often spend a few hours loading a single round, shooting it, loading, shooting, repeat until the brass fails. Then because I am a cheap SOB, the next couple hours will be spent reclaiming lead out of my bullet trap then casting new ones.

My stock, like all of my preps, are a hedge against shortage, to help out friends occasionally (real friends, the kind who help me out occasionally), and to fleece the unprepared who, in times of plenty, mock anyone who stocks up (plenty of those people crying right now). Oh, and right now I am in line for a flu shot...

Jesus, was your mom around Va Beach, Little Creek in the middle 50's or after and talk about a sailor with a 55 Chevy?
You could be the third brother from another mother....

 

[johny5]

Anyone who holds the that view mature adults, in a free society, publicly debating different ideas on economics, commerce, liberty, emergency preparedness, religion, etc. are somehow wasting their time - spare me your condescension.

This sort of exchange is exactly the kind of thing that people who live in oppressive societies yearn for - the ability to freely express dissenting views without fear of reprisal. The problem for many in the US is that we've had this freedom for so long that we do not realize how precious it is.

Yes, there are times that some of us allow our emotions to get the better of us, but these are ideas that affect every area of our lives. What sort of people would we be if we were not passionate about these things??

Anyone who does not find these activities to be the best use of their time - good on ya. Do what you find best.

But nobody should feel compelled to explain themselves or justify the time they spend here.

 

[Ingomike]

Anyone who holds the that view mature adults, in a free society, publicly debating different ideas on economics, commerce, liberty, emergency preparedness, religion, etc. are somehow wasting their time - spare me your condescension.

This sort of exchange is exactly the kind of thing that people who live in oppressive societies yearn for - the ability to freely express dissenting views without fear of reprisal. The problem for many in the US is that we've had this freedom for so long that we do not realize how precious it is.

Yes, there are times that some of us allow our emotions to get the better of us, but these are ideas that affect every area of our lives. What sort of people would we be if we were not passionate about these things??

Anyone who does not find these activities to be the best use of their time - good on ya. Do what you find best.

But nobody should feel compelled to explain themselves or justify the time they spend here.

Max rep sent...