Vendors charging way too much for Primers

[Clay Pigeon]

Anyone who holds the that view mature adults, in a free society, publicly debating different ideas on economics, commerce, liberty, emergency preparedness, religion, etc. are somehow wasting their time - spare me your condescension.

This sort of exchange is exactly the kind of thing that people who live in oppressive societies yearn for - the ability to freely express dissenting views without fear of reprisal. The problem for many in the US is that we've had this freedom for so long that we do not realize how precious it is.

Yes, there are times that some of us allow our emotions to get the better of us, but these are ideas that affect every area of our lives. What sort of people would we be if we were not passionate about these things??

Anyone who does not find these activities to be the best use of their time - good on ya. Do what you find best.

But nobody should feel compelled to explain themselves or justify the time they spend here.

I stopped reading at "Mature Adults".......

 

[johny5]

I stopped reading at "Mature Adults".......

 

[ditcherman]

The cure for high prices is high prices.

Doesn't matter if it's corn, gold or brass/lead.

It is also very clear to me that many people could learn a lot by opening their own business, but that doesn't mean they should.

I'm just getting into reloading and paying a little too much for some things, but my economy allows it and it's what I want to do. Doesn't make me stupid.

It takes two to make a deal, and if I want to overpay according to your standards I can, thanks.

 

[ditcherman]

Many dealers thought it was great when the ammo and reloading supplies started flying off the shelves, until they realized that some of those items would cost more to replace than what they just sold them for (it's happened to me several times in the last few months). When the panic started, I held my prices down since I had a significant stockpile (I always buy extra before an election year). Boy was that a mistake. I was selling a 50 round box of 9mm for $10.29 plus tax during the initial rush. When I replaced it, I was paying over $12 per box. Started selling that for $14.02 plus tax, paid $16 to replace it (are you seeing a trend here?). In all honesty, I usually base my prices on replacement cost. Wholesale prices were just changing so fast and we were so busy that I simply couldn't keep up. Things have somewhat stabilized since then.

Many people think that the reason I have such a wide variety of hard to find calibers in stock during a shortage is because my prices are high. The reality is the opposite, my prices are high because I have a wide variety of hard to find calibers. To be able to maintain inventory that is in high demand during an unprecedented shortage requires me to go outside my normal distributors (who are telling me that it could be early 2022 before I start to see primers again). Using secondary suppliers means paying more. I'm not talking about a little more, I'm talking about A LOT more. I was paying over $1 per round for .380 a month ago, and it's even more difficult to find now. For those of you out there saying "I've seen it for less than $1 per round, you don't have to pay that much", I'm sure you have seen it for less. The fact of the matter is, I can't be everywhere and get all of the best deals all of the time. Almost all of my suppliers are placing limits on purchases. 6 months ago I could order a pallets of 9mm if I could find it, now I'm lucky if they let me order more than 2 cases. Most of the ammunition I have coming in from normal sources I ordered in MARCH, it's been on back order for over 7 months and it's just trickling in. My distributor refuses to even place any more primers on backorder.

Do I still get ammunition at the "old prices" from distributors? Yes, occasionally I do, in very small quantities. Why don't I sell these small quantities cheaper? For the same reason I wouldn't sell an ounce of gold for $500 if someone sold it to me for $400, it would cost me more to replace it. Ammunition, firearms, reloading components, etc., are a commodity. If I get lucky and get a case of 9mm for $200 and sell it for $240 and then pay $700 to replace it, that doesn't make good business sense, it would just be plain stupid.

I've been doing this long enough to remember the last few panic buying frenzies. When the music stops, I always get burned on the last products I purchased since I payed so much for them. It averages out when I figure in the few lucky deals I get during the shortage. It all goes back to replacement cost. If I buy a box of ammo for $50 and the price drops dramatically before it sells, I'll sell it below cost without looking back. If the $50 box of ammo can be replaced for $25 a month later, I'll sell it for $28.04 plus tax.

Dealing with large quantities of product at prices that are significantly higher than normal during a shortage in an unstable market entails significant risk. I prefer stability and normal prices to all of the uncertainty. I tell my customers if they have a decent supply they probably shouldn't buy more right now. I'm not trying to rip anyone off, I'm just trying to make sure that the products I sell are available to those who need them.

I could go into a much more in depth rant about this and similar subjects (like increased manufacturing and shipping costs) but I think this gets some of the main points I'm trying to make across.

Like many others have said, "If you don't like the price, don't buy it".

Well said and appreciate the insight.
You should raise your prices. Let em moan.
I felt bad buying 300 sm pistol primers, your limit, for your price. I justified it by saying to myself "well I guess its only three boxes I hope he's not hurt too bad".
You've sold case after case for that, and probably hurt yourself.
Whether the people that moan about high prices know it or not, they want you there. You do what it takes to stay. There is a lot to be said for staying power.

 

[Brian's Surplus]

Well said and appreciate the insight.
You should raise your prices. Let em moan.
I felt bad buying 300 sm pistol primers, your limit, for your price. I justified it by saying to myself "well I guess its only three boxes I hope he's not hurt too bad".
You've sold case after case for that, and probably hurt yourself.
Whether the people that moan about high prices know it or not, they want you there. You do what it takes to stay. There is a lot to be said for staying power.

I try to take care of my local customers first, and I figured putting a limit that low would prevent people from flipping and people that were desperate could at least get a few. I can't always sell that cheap, but I really don't like putting super high prices on anything. I wish I had bought more when I could, but I think everyone is in the same boat. If I had 50 million primers it wouldn't be enough.
If I had a few hundred million dollars I would buy a massive climate controlled warehouse and fill it to the rafters during the next slump in sales. Then I could sell at normal prices with a limit of 1 case per customer during the next panic, and everyone could get some at a good price. I really enjoy what I do, especially being able to provide high-demand items when very few places can.
That being said, I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for the people that have been coming in the store for the last few years and only buying a couple boxes when prices were at a 12 year low. I told countless customers to stock up. Some took my advice but many did not. I really could not believe how cheap ammo got around 2017-2019. I stockpiled what I could, but that was only enough to last about 40 days during the initial panic.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I try to take care of my local customers first, and I figured putting a limit that low would prevent people from flipping and people that were desperate could at least get a few. I can't always sell that cheap, but I really don't like putting super high prices on anything. I wish I had bought more when I could, but I think everyone is in the same boat. If I had 50 million primers it wouldn't be enough.
If I had a few hundred million dollars I would buy a massive climate controlled warehouse and fill it to the rafters during the next slump in sales. Then I could sell at normal prices with a limit of 1 case per customer during the next panic, and everyone could get some at a good price. I really enjoy what I do, especially being able to provide high-demand items when very few places can.
That being said, I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for the people that have been coming in the store for the last few years and only buying a couple boxes when prices were at a 12 year low. I told countless customers to stock up. Some took my advice but many did not. I really could not believe how cheap ammo got around 2017-2019. I stockpiled what I could, but that was only enough to last about 40 days during the initial panic.

I bought at least 30-40 thou primers from your shop a few weeks before the stupid started. Mostly Remington benchrest and those whitebox milspec and Fiocchi primers. Your dad said they were from the last buy out...
Oh, and my younger kid wants another tee shirt...

 

[johny5]

The disconnect here is both funny and sad. Two ideas, expressed by the same people, at the same time - wholly incompatible:

1. I had did not have the means/opportunity to stockpile. I did not have enough room/money/time to. I had no idea this would happen? How can I be expected to anticipate things like this?
2. Why didn't the gun shops and vendors stockpile? Why didn't they build warehouses and invest untold time and money laying aside all the things I did not know until now that I needed? Why didn't they anticipate this and prepare for it?

I have already admitted that I did not do enough to prepare. I have nobody to blame but myself for that. Heaping scorn on shops for doing what they must to survive in these difficult times doesn't play with me, nor should it for any other fair-minded person.

Apologies for all of the soap-boxing today, but I am up to my gills reading comments that attack good people running great businesses. Nearly everyone is suffering right now, in one way or another. We gotta hang together.

 

[Ingomike]

I try to take care of my local customers first, and I figured putting a limit that low would prevent people from flipping and people that were desperate could at least get a few. I can't always sell that cheap, but I really don't like putting super high prices on anything. I wish I had bought more when I could, but I think everyone is in the same boat. If I had 50 million primers it wouldn't be enough.
If I had a few hundred million dollars I would buy a massive climate controlled warehouse and fill it to the rafters during the next slump in sales. Then I could sell at normal prices with a limit of 1 case per customer during the next panic, and everyone could get some at a good price. I really enjoy what I do, especially being able to provide high-demand items when very few places can.
That being said, I don't have an enormous amount of sympathy for the people that have been coming in the store for the last few years and only buying a couple boxes when prices were at a 12 year low. I told countless customers to stock up. Some took my advice but many did not. I really could not believe how cheap ammo got around 2017-2019. I stockpiled what I could, but that was only enough to last about 40 days during the initial panic.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Ingomike]

The disconnect here is both funny and sad. Two ideas, expressed by the same people, at the same time - wholly incompatible:

1. I had did not have the means/opportunity to stockpile. I did not have enough room/money/time to. I had no idea this would happen? How can I be expected to anticipate things like this?
2. Why didn't the gun shops and vendors stockpile? Why didn't they build warehouses and invest untold time and money laying aside all the things I did not know until now that I needed? Why didn't they anticipate this and prepare for it?

I have already admitted that I did not do enough to prepare. I have nobody to blame but myself for that. Heaping scorn on shops for doing what they must to survive in these difficult times doesn't play with me, nor should it for any other fair-minded person.

Apologies for all of the soap-boxing today, but I am up to my gills reading comments that attack good people running great businesses. Nearly everyone is suffering right now, in one way or another. We gotta hang together.

Well put.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

I don't have a problem with them raising the prices as costs for the items go up. Product availability is down for almost everything gun related. To make me as a reloader or new shooter front the cost of sales being lower than normal is not a good way to stay in business. I would not continue to support businesses that did this no matter what they are selling.

They didn't allow people to sell TP for double or triple the price when you couldn't find it at the grocery. Amazon and Ebay actively blocked them from doing it. I have seen gun shops selling guns as fast as they get them in. I don't doubt the supply problems are slowing shops down, but I have seen some selling a lot more guns than they usually do.

I was still buying 1000 primers for $30-$40 when people were selling them here for $75-$100. I think price gouging for the sake of profit is wrong. Just my personal opinion.

But the prices have gone up, the entire way through the entire supply chain. This is literally what every business in every industry does to keep in the market. So your "just personal opinion" is irrelevant to the matter. Feel free to open a store and give things away for free, or at cost, or at a 2c markup.

Do you really want the government interfering in the ammo market? Think very carefully about that.

As far as the TP example--one auction house sold off a warehouse of TP to the highest bidder, and the government seized it as "gouging," even though as an auction, THE BUYER OFFERED THAT PRICE. So while the TP is in seizure, NO ONE HAD IT. Somehow this was "moral." Except, of course, for the people who needed.

Don't like the price? Don't buy the product. Don't want to wear a face panty? Don't go where they're mandated (I have yet to wear a mask for any reason whatsoever). It's still sort of a free country and you're supposed to be a free man. Act like one.

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Has anyone else noticed we have this exact same discussion LITERALLY EVERY TIME there's a social shift that causes people to buy ammo? It's almost as if one could budget ahead and stock up on a regular basis when the market is favorable.

 

[Bobshell1968]

I don't really give a damn. As a Reloader I need those primers and all the other stuff to reload. I've got 2 Dillon presses settin idle cause of all this bull****. It will pass like always and I will be more prepared the next time. Let's just hope there isn't and concentrate on electing trump again. Soon as biden disappears it will get better. But i did see the prices at the 1500 ( which should be renamed the indy750 ) and I wasn't paying that. So I bought a hellcat instead

 

[mstrmstr]

Strange.. I walked into BassPro and walked out with a brick of FED Premium Gold Medal Match for 44.99 and tax.. TODAY.. and they were in stock...but not at the normal area- I had to ask.

 

[Warsaw214]

Interesting Read, many perspectives... I just paid $350 for Dillon Carbide .223/5.56 Dies. I justified it as I know they are back-ordered 10+ months. So, I sold some primers sitting on my shelf that more than likely would sit there beyond 10 months. Its adapting to consumer market like gas prices, toilet paper, lumber, etc. Everyone adapts, puts off whats less important.

Summary of Perspectives gathered from this post, each one can easily talk past one another:

1) Casual Re-loader
2) Competitive Re-loader
3) Commercial Reloader
4) Commercial Retailer
5) Family Insurance Re-Loader - This one needs some accompanying definition... Everyone here invests in some form of Insurance (Home, Flood, Car, Motorcycle, Boat, Health, Side by Side, Snowmobile, etc,) This perspective pays for firearms , equipment, components, etc. primarily investing/seeking insurance for their family. That is, investing in a means of keeping ones family safe, and like other insurance... besides a piece of mind through this form of risk mitigation each year, the majority of our lives there is no return. However, with one major difference, at the end of the year... We do collect and possess a very nice Tangible inventory of Firearms, Equipment, and Components. At least, that's what I tell my wife

 

[ditcherman]

Has anyone else noticed we have this exact same discussion LITERALLY EVERY TIME there's a social shift that causes people to buy ammo? It's almost as if one could budget ahead and stock up on a regular basis when the market is favorable.

IT SURE WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE IF SOMEONE WOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT BEFORE NOW!!! I'VE ONLY BEEN THROUGH 2 OF THESE CYCLES, HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW?!?!

 

[Pepi]

I quit my shooting hobby and started using a Slingshot. Actually pretty fun with a good made one

 

[Squander]

How do you ship primers? I thought that they required special some kind of Hazmat training and could only be shipped by a "business" with a contract with UPS or FedEx.

I have been selling primers online for about a month now, i paid 19.00 -23.00 a brick of 1,000 delivered about 7-8 years ago.
They are selling at auction for 160.00 - 180.00 plus shipping per brick the past two weeks. I must be the boogie man for investing my money years ago with products that I knew would eventually make a huge profit?
Just wait until GI M16 get stupid again... Supply and Demand...

 

[judgecrater]

IT SURE WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE IF SOMEONE WOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT BEFORE NOW!!! I'VE ONLY BEEN THROUGH 2 OF THESE CYCLES, HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW?!?!

You are exactly right. Unless someone is 18 years old and just getting started, we have seen this happen time and time again. A year ago sellers could not give away guns and ammo. Who would have thought it might have been a good time to buy??
Also I have been buying shares of stock hoping to sell for a higher price; shame on me for taking advantage of future buyers.

 

[ditcherman]

You are exactly right. Unless someone is 18 years old and just getting started, we have seen this happen time and time again. A year ago sellers could not give away guns and ammo. Who would have thought it might have been a good time to buy??
Also I have been buying shares of stock hoping to sell for a higher price; shame on me for taking advantage of future buyers.

Yes, shame on you! Oh the horror and judgement you will face for making money in a market based transaction!

 

[AtTheMurph]

Every post complaining about the high price always contains the same phrase "taking advantage of".

No one is taking advantage of you. You are free to not pay what someone else is asking. So the only way you are taken advantage of, is if you are forced to buy something at a price you don't like, such as my health insurance premiums after Obama Care went into effect and I had to buy insurance or face a penalty. That is being taken advantage of.

I don't see anyone complaining about being 'taken advantage of' because the price of a Ferrari is $450,000 or the price of gold is $2000/oz. Free association means that you are not taken advantage of unless you choose to be taken advantage of.