Wanna stop a future AWB? Then get your butt in here now!

[USMC_0311]

I just registered on the new forum and I agree with you, there are too many different areas...I am confussed at to which thread I should post ...I see too many areas that will drift us into never never land.

It doesn't look like they plan on narrowing it down...what a shame.

I know, I think I will just get my orders form you guys. I don't feel like filtering through that mess.

 

[KevinH]

I wrote George an email offering some help. I agree, it's way to techie for me. I'll just stay in my little corner of Indiana and see what can be done from here. Wish I had one of those bomb shelters that were so popular when I was 7 years old. I'd like one supplied like the one Sarah Conner opened up in Terminator. Now that's gun control!

 

[SavageEagle]

I know, I think I will just get my order form you guys. I don't feel like filtering through that mess.

It is pretty confusing. I started an idea about a nationwide march on our capitols and Reps offices. I think some of them are just there to make a fuss. I said it'd be good to carry and I got blasted on it. I think these guys have some issues, but some of them are pretty smart. We'll see what develops.

 

[ATF Consumer]

It is pretty confusing. I started an idea about a nationwide march on our capitols and Reps offices. I think some of them are just there to make a fuss. I said it'd be good to carry and I got blasted on it. I think these guys have some issues, but some of them are pretty smart. We'll see what develops.

I think some may actually be trolls...
I just don't understand why some want to tread lightly to show and voice their stance on a right that we can't afford to be treaded on at all. We currently have a right, we need to exercise it.

Why do the women get a "only" section, but the men do not...neither need their own section...it is too many areas to place your thoughts and they will get lost into oblivion.

And the upgraded areas??? you would think that all should see what everyone is thinking.

The general discussion area is a waste of time, as that is what everyones base forums are for. Too many members will hang out there and lose focus on the issue.

I hope they reform the site and remove some of the frivolous forums...they are not helping the cause.

 

[SavageEagle]

You make a great point. I was looking through some of the threads and they are all saying the same damn things just in different words. Some aren't even reading the whole thread and just commenting solely on the OP. This was seemingly built by 1 guy trying to please everyone's whims. This needs to be more simple and straight forward.

I could understand the upgraded be a structure of some kind. board members of certain types only allowed to post, but everyone can see.... But not like what he's got going. I understand needing to fund the site, but donations, sponsors, that will come.

I think maybe after everyone settles down and makes some serious discussion plausible, maybe it'll change. I'm going to troll around but stay with the thread I started and see what comes of it. I still have high hopes for getting something off the ground here.

 

[ATF Consumer]

You make a great point. I was looking through some of the threads and they are all saying the same damn things just in different words. Some aren't even reading the whole thread and just commenting solely on the OP. This was seemingly built by 1 guy trying to please everyone's whims. This needs to be more simple and straight forward.

I could understand the upgraded be a structure of some kind. board members of certain types only allowed to post, but everyone can see.... But not like what he's got going. I understand needing to fund the site, but donations, sponsors, that will come.

I think maybe after everyone settles down and makes some serious discussion plausible, maybe it'll change. I'm going to troll around but stay with the thread I started and see what comes of it. I still have high hopes for getting something off the ground here.

Yes, your thread is the main one everyone should focus on, as that is what will make us seen and heard. Now people just need to get involved and make it happen.

 

[OneBadV8]

The Site is brand new and they are open to suggestions. They won't tailor to everyone's needs but if you have a suggestion on the site let them know. I imagine the site will change quite a bit in the next few months. The really just wanted to get something up as soon as they could. I don't think the current format is set in stone.

I would encourage you to voice your opinion on the forum or the chat room directly.

 

[4sarge]

The Site is brand new and they are open to suggestions. They won't tailor to everyone's needs but if you have a suggestion on the site let them know. I imagine the site will change quite a bit in the next few months. The really just wanted to get something up as soon as they could. I don't think the current format is set in stone.

I would encourage you to voice your opinion on the forum or the chat room directly.

So far, I'm not impressed and I compare it to a cluster f***k. I know that one must learn to crawl before one can walk but time is of the essence. We have multiple web sights and organizations with similar goals but different methods of achieving them. Except, most want our money and promise us gun salvation. We have underestimated "Our" Enemy and they are "Our" Enemy.


Obama - Charismatic (sic) leader to lead the sheeple and drink the Liberal Elitist Anti Gun Kool Aid.

We need (gun owners) a spokesman who commands respect and can motivate, organize and LEAD. Until then, we are spiraling down the drain. Study the UK and Australian Gun Grab. Believe me, it will happen here and under Obama.

The law abiding will become the criminal - People, it will happen here.

Gun makers, Ammunition Manufacturers, dealers and gun owners should be in this fight together.

It can and will happen here unless we stop it before it becomes law

AWB
Ammunition Tax
Gun Registration
Obama's Civilian Brown Shirt "well armed" National Force
Gun Turn-In
Gun Confiscation or Prison for those who do not comply.

It will happen with nary a shot fired and I will shed a tear for the end of Freedom in America

I hope that I am wrong

PS This was not meant as a criticism of th new site or OneBadV8. We can all cry in our beer, bitch about it in private or the Internet but it will not stop our impending fate. Immediate Action is our only hope for salvation

 

[USMC_0311]

So far, I'm not impressed and I compare it to a cluster f***k. I know that one must learn to crawl before one can walk but time is of the essence. We have multiple web sights and organizations with similar goals but different methods of achieving them. Except, most want our money and promise us gun salvation. We have underestimated "Our" Enemy and they are "Our" Enemy.


Obama - Charismatic (sic) leader to lead the sheeple and drink the Liberal Elitist Anti Gun Kool Aid.

We need (gun owners) a spokesman who commands respect and can motivate, organize and LEAD. Until then, we are spiraling down the drain. Study the UK and Australian Gun Grab. Believe me, it will happen here and under Obama.

The law abiding will become the criminal - People, it will happen here.

Gun makers, Ammunition Manufacturers, dealers and gun owners should be in this fight together.

It can and will happen here unless we stop it before it becomes law

AWB
Ammunition Tax
Gun Registration
Obama's Civilian Brown Shirt "well armed" National Force
Gun Turn-In
Gun Confiscation or Prison for those who do not comply.

It will happen with nary a shot fired and I will shed a tear for the end of Freedom in America

I hope that I am wrong

PS This was not meant as a criticism of th new site or OneBadV8. We can all cry in our beer, bitch about it in private or the Internet but it will not stop our impending fate. Immediate Action is our only hope for salvation

I am with sarge on this. Lets start our campain now here in Indiana. Lets find a congress critter and march next week. Prometheus mentioned a couple up north, can you find out when they will be in their office. Lets do something soon, its a start.

 

[SavageEagle]

Exactly as my thread I started states...

I'm here to organize in my own state. Regardless if I can get a Nationwide march going, we will have one in Indiana. Statewide. I'm talking every single major city, everyone who can find a Represenitive's office, get out and let them know we as Free Americans will not allow anyone to trample on, infringe on, or take away our rights.

I live a hop skin and jump from Downtown Indy. We need to get a list going of people who are willing to organize in their areas first. Second get a flyer to copy, download, print and distribute to everyone in their area. If that means mailbox to mailbox and handing out copies at ranges, shops, grocery stores, we have to get word out. We can use newspapers, the internet, whatever, but the word of mouth is nothing short of THE BEST WAY to get a cause known. Not just known, but known in the way it's MEANT to be known, not how the media wants you to know it.

The march should be soon, but we need to give everyone enough times notice to be able to work around schedules and have enough advance notice not to schedule things. That way if it's an all day thing, people who work at night can attend in the morning, and morning people in the evening. A stead flow of people however big or small, will show more solidarity than the elections when "Supposedly" larger numbers than ever before showed up.

Obviously one man can't do this alone. Either on a statewide scale or even a local scale. Everyone needs support on this.

So how many are willing to organize in their area? This means a lot of footwork in these areas.

Also if you would like, a list to make up so we can show everyone organizing who else is doing so and in what areas would be good.

Again, I'd like to see this happen on a nationwide scale but with the craziness of this other site it's going to be hard to get anything accomplished. I know we have the MSGs to deal with but I would like to think this takes precident. Not that MSGs are any less important but I do believe this is going to help our cause if it's done right.

The big issue they are whining about over at 2AM is about armed or not armed. IMHO armed is the only real choice to make it really impact the public and our reps. They say we'll look like an armed "Revolt" and get shot at like Kent State. LOL Obviously someone is there to undermine the effort somewhere, but I can't be sure. We have a lot of work to do. Who's with me?

 

[USMC_0311]

We don't necessarily have to have one big state wide one at first. We could just pick one area and just go and do it. Thats a start we can build on. It does not matter to me if people want to come armed or not, let them make that choice as long as its with in the law. Even empty holsters or wooden parade guns. We could do one pretty fast (within a week or 2) if only 10-20 show thats a start, we just do another somewhere else right away. We can build up to state wide march.

 

[SavageEagle]

I hope this posts. It's giving me an error.

SavageEagle wrote:
Now I can understand not being able to POST in restricted forums, but to not be able to READ them is a bit over the top. I personally will not contribute until a lot of changes are made and I'm sure that this will be something useful, but the restricted forums are a big no no on my list.

At least allow all members to READ them.

SavageEagle,

The whole point of keeping the forums private is to prevent the general public from being able to read them. Those sections will be a place for members to blow off steam and will have little to do with the actual effort. As such, it would be better for our image to keep that sort of stuff out of public view.

I'm sorry you dislike the brass, silver and gold forums so much. But we have thought this over very carefully and we believe them to be a necessary part of the forums. If evidence suggests otherwise on down the road, then we will make changes. But for now, we think they will work because we have seen them work on a number of other forums. We have a model and a plan and we can't just start making wholesale changes until we have time to see how things work out. We have put a great deal of thought and work into this over the past week and think this is simply the best means to achieve our goals at this point.

As for the "Top Brass" section, that place is reserved for the group liaisons. It isn't a pay forum. It is just for the liaisons. The group liaisons are probably the most important aspect of this whole project, as they will be the ones who carry news and instructions back to all of the other online forums and other gun related groups. We have to keep that forum off limits to everyone but the liaisons, so it doesn't become a cluttered mess.

This effort is still very much a work in progress. And this forum here is not the crown jewel of the effort. The main website will be the real draw when we get it finished. These forums are just a very small part of the overall picture and are simply here to give people a chance to discuss things and get to know each other. But as we grow and as we experiment with things, we will find what direction we need to take in the future with the board here and will do so. But for now, we can't just start making major changes every time someone has a complaint. If we did that, there would be anarchy here. So I hope you can understand that and realize the effort is far too important to let a few minor disagreements about forum arrangement derail the effort. Please just be patient and give this thing a chance to develop. We are very much in our infancy as a group. But we have come a long way in just a little over a week. What you see now may be entirely different six months down the road. Again, it is a work in progress. Just have a little faith in us. Again, we have taken this thing from a concept to an actual entity with a forum, a partially developed website and over 500 members in about 9 days time. We can and will take it the rest of the way. We simply cannot afford to let this effort fail. Our freedom and the freedom of our children and grandchildren hangs in the balance.

-George

 

[USMC_0311]

This thing will be over in 6 months.

Why can't there just be one place to start (the liason) and let it develope from there if the need exist. I don't want the "forum" I just want to act hear in Indiana when we need to.

Like he said the web site is the main focal point.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I hope this posts. It's giving me an error.

After reading that, you would think the rest of his name was W. Bush

I'm with you SavageEagle...

I'm the printer guy here...I will donate several thousand color flyers to get this thing organized.

I'm here in Indy so let me know what I can do and I will do my best to get things done.

 

[SavageEagle]

This thing will be over in 6 months.

Why can't there just be one place to start (the liason) and let it develope from there if the need exist. I don't want the "forum" I just want to act hear in Indiana when we need to.

Like he said the web site is the main focal point.

Agreed. We have to act now. We'll get things started while they play footsy.

After reading that, you would think the rest of his name was W. Bush

I'm with you SavageEagle...

I'm the printer guy here...I will donate several thousand color flyers to get this thing organized.

I'm here in Indy so let me know what I can do and I will do my best to get things done.

Lets get a rally going here at the state capital. Snow, sleet, rain or shine, whenever. Let them know what we think of current laws, (no carry zones, etc.) and we will not tolerate an AWB. ANything we can think of, but get a main point across. All ideas are gold at this point. And you can carry at this event. Just don't sit or stand in the grass.

 

[jedi]

SavageEagle,

I'm in NWI but will travel to Indy for any rally. I'm sure I can bring others with me. We may want to consider doing the 'major' cities with the F rates Congressman that we have in Indy. Case in point my rep up in LAKE COUNTY. I'm not sure who the others are.

I'm going to the range this week and will talk to the owner to see if I can leave flyers for upcoming marching events. I'm sure she will say yes. Once you have a definite date I'll stop by Cabellas, and Bytles as well to talk to the managers and leave the flyers.

I posted yesretday I think that we need some 1 page flyers on the topic for non-gunners.

IDEA FOR FLYERS
#1 'Assault Rifle Myth'

- Type of weapons (handguns, shotguns, riffles)
- 'Assault Rifle Myth'

#2 Assault Weapons Ban is "feel good legislation'
- AWB of 93 did not reduce crime
- What weapons were picked fro AWB 93
- New AWB will do what?

#3 - 100,000 Laws and Couting
- Cimirnals don't obey laws, they break them. So adding more GUN LAWs is pointless?
- Enforcement of laws is needed.
- Example of cafe shooting in which the "laws" (written) did not stop the criminal from committing the crime but did stop customers from protecting themseleves since their guns were a) in the car b) at home c) not allowed.

#4 YOU ARE UNDER ARREST
- Victimiless crimes committed by law abiding gun owners
- While Criminals could care less of gun laws

 

[CPU13rother]

yep

 

[GetA2J]

I really feel that a "million armed man" march on washington is out of the question. After all the gun laws are so strict that nobody could legally carry there. I like the idea of localized marches. I even like tter the idea of a single date and time when gun owners across this great country march at their local capitals. I really think that since most armed men work and are responsible "for the most part" that taking time off for a march on D.C. is out of reach. but on the local (state) level attendance would be greater I would think.
Also I undestand that we all work wierd hours. I for one could not make a weekday march but weekends are much more flexible.
Another nice point about localized marches is that w can all march armed according to our states laws and show our commitment to law abiding by our already written laws. Clearly opposing any NEW legislation.

 

[KevinH]

I'd like to suggest the Buckeye Firearms Association. They are doing what you are planning. Here is one of the articles they have on their web site that may help you get going.

Buckeye Firearms Association

www.BuckeyeFirearms.org


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Although written from a partisan standpoint, this non-partisan PAC believes the information contained herein is important for ALL gun owners to consider, regardless of party...
The Most Powerful Office in the World is Not the Presidency of the United States!!
"I was a Precinct Committeeman for 16 years and I eagerly encourage others to do likewise."
Phyllis Schlafly, President, Eagle Forum
"I hope this (essay) gets wide distribution."
Hon. U.S. Rep. Phillip M. Crane
I admit it. The title of this essay is a little misleading. George W. Bush is the most powerful man in the world, so technically, the U.S. Presidency is the "Most Powerful Office in the World." But what if I told you there is another public office that (ultimately) chooses who will be President plus virtually every other elected official in the U. S.? If that were true, wouldn't that office (ultimately) be the "Most Powerful Office in the World?"
Conservatives take pride in their knowledge of the Constitution and the outward forms of American Government. Many can quote the Found Fathers "The least governed are the best governed" (Jefferson), "Government is like fire, a useful servant but a deadly master" (George Washington), etc. We work hard electing a few tokens (like Reagan). But the bottom line is, we know next to nothing about the real system of American government, which isn't the fairy tale we're taught in school.
That's why, years after the "Reagan Revolution", taxes (and tax funded abortions) are up, the real Federal debt (with Social Security and other Federal pension liabilities) continues to skyrocket, government regulations and mandates multiply like rabbits. Public schools, the Second Amendment, "gay rights"---I dare you to find one public policy issue that isn't worse from a conservative perspective!
If you are tired of seeing things continue to go down the drain, you must understand how liberals dominate our government. You must understand the seven laws of American government:
1. If you want to change things, change the laws. Remember all the nonsense we learned in school about "Coequal Branches of Government"? Actually the Found Fathers made Congress far and away the most powerful branch because it was "closest to the people."
The President can't spend a dime unless Congress authorizes it. Congress can reject treaties and Presidential appointments, mandate programs the President doesn't want (by overriding vetoes) and even determine if the Supreme Court can rule on a case (Article III, section 2, "...the Supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction...with such exceptions and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.")!
Because our state constitutions are modeled after the Federal Constitution, it's the same story at the local level. Governors and State Supreme Court Justices have some influence, but ultimate power lies in the same legislature that passes the laws and determines what happen in our society. Unfortunately, most legislatures are dominated by liberals.
2. To change laws, change the lawmakers. No citizens or group can possibly keep up with the thousands of laws passed each year by U.S. legislatures. Sure a big protest campaign can change a vote or two. But after all the shouting is over, sometime down the road liberal legislators quietly pass whatever they wanted in the first place. There's really no substitute for legislators we can count on whether our eyes are on them or not.
3. Our people have to be on the ballot to get elected. When was the last time you were really enthusiastic about a candidate? How often do you vote for the "lesser of two evils"? Ever wonder why, despite the rhetoric, both major parties promote anti-conservative policies after they are elected?
4. To get on the ballot, our people have to win a major party primary. Except in very rare cases, everyone we elect in the fall won a major party primary. Because one party usually dominates a district, 90% of legislative seats are actually decided in the dominant party primary, not in the fall. Usually no more than 20% of registered voters bother to vote in these all important primaries. In dominant party primaries with multiple candidates (very common after an incumbent retires), normally less than 7% of registered voters determine who goes to the legislature (Campaigns and Elections magazine says 108 major-party nominations for governor or U.S. Senate in the 1990's went to candidates who won with less than 50% of the primary vote). Since only about half of the eligible population bothers to registers to vote, I estimate about 4% are telling all the rest of us what to do!
Some naive conservatives fall for third party appeals of "conservative" leaders who are more interested in fundraising than results. But our "winner take all" system (like England and Canada) does not provide for proportional representation. 10% of the voters in a general election gets nothing. 10% of the voters in the primary of the party that dominates a district usually wins a legislative seat.
5. Party endorsed candidates win the primary. Sometimes candidates endorsed by local party organizations lose primaries, but it's rare. Endorsements mean you get party money plus party workers who will pass out sample ballots with your name prominently endorsed. Primary voters are no different than anyone else. They don't have a lot of time to study the qualifications of primary candidates and their stands on the issues. Usually they see the party endorsements, assume "the Party knows best" and punch the appropriate holes.
There are state, ward and township party organizations, but the basic unit of U.S. government is the county. In nearly every case, the party endorsements the primary voter sees are made by a county executive committee. This executive committee is usually elected by the county's precinct committeemen. These committemen are elected in the party primary from every precinct (normally about 500 voters) in the county.
In some states the office of precinct committeeman goes under another name (in Michigan, they are called precinct delegates; in Ohio, it is precinct executive). Sometimes (as in Illinois' Cook County), the county executive committee is elected by primary voters from an entire ward, township or county. But such widespread voting for a major party's county executive committee is the exception, not the rule. Normally it is the locally elected precinct committeemen who ultimately control endorsements.
Each state has slightly different rules for getting on the primary ballot for committeeman. For example, in Illinois (outside Cook County) you must file the signatures of any 10 registered voters in your precinct 90 days before the primary. In Ohio, you must file 5 signatures 75 days before the primary from voters who either voted in you party's primary or didn't vote in any primary in the last two years. The rules (and the name of the office) may differ slightly from state to state, but it's usually easy to get on the ballot to run as a committeeman.
6. It's not necessary to have a majority of the county committeemen to influence the endorsement process.
Here's how it works in my home county, Lake County, Illinois. Lake is mostly Republican. To advance their agenda, liberals get elected as Republican committeemen. There are about 400 precincts in Lake. Normally about 100 are "vacant", i.e., nobody ran for Republican committeeman in the last primary. Of the 300 or so elected committeemen, about 10% are conservatives, 15% are liberals and the rest "regulars" mainly interested in patronage and power who usually could care less about issues like abortion, "gay rights", gun control, etc.
Say X and Y are running for Lake County's executive committee. Each has half of the "regulars". Where are they going to get the necessary voters to get a majority? From 45 liberals or 30 conservatives? And once elected, who do you think the winning candidate is going to endorse in the next primary---a liberal Republican or a conservative? That's why most of Lake County's officials vote liberal, despite an overwhelming Republican vote. That's how 45 people in a county of 520,000 control the endorsement process. In my county, it's not 4% telling all the rest us what to do, it's less than one hundredth of 1%!!
Occasionally, some rich amateur will dump millions into a campaign and become a senator or governor overnight. But for the vast majority of politicians, it's a long, slow grind to the top. Each step of the ladder, they need a party endorsement---endorsements which in both parties are dominated by liberals. Is it any wonder why we get the government we do?
In summary, to change things, we must change the laws. To change the laws, we must change the people making them. To get elected , our people must get on the ballot. To get on the ballot, they must win a major party primary. To win the primary, they should get endorsed by their party. To get a party endorsements, we must find, train and elect precinct committeemen who will in turn elect the people who make party endorsements. Precinct committeeman is the most powerful office in the world because committeemen ultimately determine who goes to Washington D.C. and our state capitol.
7. The Powerful Office in the World is Easy to get!! Lake is typical among U.S. counties. 25% of the committeeman spots of the dominant party are normally "vacant". In these precincts, if you get on the primary ballot with no primary opponent, the only way you can lose is through an almost impossible write-in campaign.
In the other 75% of precincts, you will probably have to oust an incumbent committeeman (sometimes they withdraw rather than fight). But most incumbent committeemen are patronage hacks who do little besides drop off party literature and endorsements. (When was the last time any committeeman came to your door?). $50 for literature, a few weekends visiting the hundred or so homes that might vote in your party's primary and any dedicated conservative can win.
In my experience in Illinois, it's very rare for a conservative who follows the formula above to lose to a "Regular" Republican committeeman---even a "regular" who has had the office for decades. I've even seen one issue zealots who insisted on converting everyone to their cause (pro-life, gun rights, etc.) eke out wins. Those who follow our advice and say "I'd like to represent your views to the Republican Party. What do you think are the most important issues?" usually win 2 to 1. Of course, being a conservative is harder in the Democratic party. But there are many "Reagan Democrat" areas where conservatives can win and the Democrat party is the only game in town. As the 1992 Presidential election proved, it's a mistake to put all our conservative eggs in one party's rickety basket. Believe me, liberals never make that mistake. They always join the dominant party of their area, no matter which it is. Voting for the Executive Committee and determining those critical primary endorsement is by far the most important power of precinct committeeman. But there are others:
1. Access to Neighbors. The media makes conservatives look like kooks. No wonder conservative politicians have problems. As the dominant party's committeeman, you can reach people who would never come to your church, social club or home. Most voters are eager to know about their government and the people they elect. Even the most apathetic have some interest in an institution that is taking about half their income in taxes, mandates and fees.
2. Respect from Politicians---Committeemen represent 500 voters and those key party endorsements. Any call or letter from a committeeman is going to get a lot of attention from elected officials of their own party.
3. Launching point for other offices---running for committeeman is the best place to start learning how to build winning coalitions. One of the big problems among conservatives is the notion that running for office is like running a business. Levelheaded businessmen, who wouldn't dream of being their own lawyer in court, somehow think they can win against experienced, entrenched liberals without any prior political experience.
4. Control of party leaders and platforms----Committeemen influence or control most party matters. If the Republicans dump pro-life and other conservative positions from their party platform, it won't be because of election results. It will be due to a handful of liberals who have patiently wormed their way to high party positions, starting as precinct committeeman.
Now you know how our Government actually works, just like the average liberal does. You can can continue to picket, write letters to the editor and your Congressman or work in another losing, non endorsed primary campaign---all the things that have gotten conservatives nowhere the last 60 years. Or you can stop wasting time, run for precinct committeeman and start using the liberals' secret weapon against them!
(Permission is granted to reprint or even sell this essay as long as nothing is altered without author's permission. Grant D. Noble, P.O. Box 146, Lake Forest, Il. 60045 847-234-4059 Fax: 615-0281 gnoble@safeplace.net
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[jedi]

We need BOTH but the national one will require a national type organization (think NRA, etc..) the state one we (memebrs on boards like this) can handle.