What brand safe do you have?

[BE Mike]

I have a Liberty with the spinning dial and I'm very pleased with it. Make sure whatever you get has an actual spinning combo I would highly advise against a keypad style safe as I know 2 people with $1,000+ name brand safes that had the keypads malfunction within a couple of years. They are waiting to get them replaced and currently their safes will not lock with a malfunctioning keypad.

Having known folks who sold safes for many years and having owned and sold safes for years myself, I can say that the quality electronic locks are very reliable and durable. AFAIK, S&G makes quality e-locks.

 

[comm2679]

I have a Johnson Safe and, if the need ever arose, would buy another one in a heartbeat. I'm echoing what others have already said, but Jeff is a great person and happens to build one heck of a safe. I visited his shop before I bought mine and was able to look at several safes in varying phases of construction. The materials and workmanship beat out the big box safes for the price. He will build any size, and any configuration you want.

Im embarassed to admit it, but I'm going to tell the story because it speaks so much to Jeff's personality. I went out to his place to pay him for my safe. It was near the end of the work day, I still needed to stop at the bank to get cash, and my vehicle was low on fuel. It was only my second time going to Jeff's place and I had forgotten that it was a good little drive from the nearest gas station. Long story short, I got there, we talked for a bit, I paid him, then I went to start my vehicle and it wouldn't fire. Out of fuel.

Jeff insisted on driving me to the gas station. He wasn't annoyed, he did it with a smile on his face and we had some good laughs during the trip. Jeff is one heck of a guy. Customer for life here.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I have a Johnson Safe and, if the need ever arose, would buy another one in a heartbeat. I'm echoing what others have already said, but Jeff is a great person and happens to build one heck of a safe. I visited his shop before I bought mine and was able to look at several safes in varying phases of construction. The materials and workmanship beat out the big box safes for the price. He will build any size, and any configuration you want.

Im embarassed to admit it, but I'm going to tell the story because it speaks so much to Jeff's personality. I went out to his place to pay him for my safe. It was near the end of the work day, I still needed to stop at the bank to get cash, and my vehicle was low on fuel. It was only my second time going to Jeff's place and I had forgotten that it was a good little drive from the nearest gas station. Long story short, I got there, we talked for a bit, I paid him, then I went to start my vehicle and it wouldn't fire. Out of fuel.

Jeff insisted on driving me to the gas station. He wasn't annoyed, he did it with a smile on his face and we had some good laughs during the trip. Jeff is one heck of a guy. Customer for life here.

I called Jeff last week to see what his shop hours were. I wanted to stop by after work and discuss buying from him. He told me his hours - but then said that he was at the Home Show at the Fairgrounds. AND he said that if we wanted to come down, he had a couple of free passes that he could give us. Once our schedule cleared enough for us to be able to go, I called him back and let him know we'd see him Saturday AM. We got to the entrance right next to his booth, he walked the passes over, and then I ordered a safe.

My wife is not happy, however. It won't be done until July. Ordered a JS-536 in a silver/gray paint. I are excited.

 

[Jagermeister]

I have several Pella Security safes and they are top of the line. Very well built and a small company.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I have several Pella Security safes and they are top of the line. Very well built and a small company.

Those look like some very well made RSCs!!!

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Guys, explain to me the logic of having a $5,000 safe.... I can't understand the logic at all.... Element proof I understand to a point, but if criminals go through and commit crimes of residential entry and burglarize your home, they will take the things they want, firearms being one of them... I have Stack on Tactical modular safe, their same ammo storage safe, and a top safe also from Stack On, along with a bedside safe... My nightstand safe is hidden in plain sight, but the others are in my office/safe space/war room... I have taken hundreds of reports, a good majority of them had safes, some I recognized from Brady's here locally. All were destroyed, of course with right time, tools, and resourceful criminals will get into it and take what they want... Then nothing is technically "safe" if that's the reason... All it does is store your firearms, nothing more. If you clean and prep, store loaded or unloaded, whatever the method to your madness is, they should be fine in a cardboard box essentially... Not saying that is optimal of course, just can't wrap my head around it... I just think the $$$ could be spent elsewhere better... And I picked Stack On for their great customer service... I have all matching lock cylinders, along with them being what an hour or 2 drive into socialist Illinois in case something happens.

Ammo cans I can understand being maxed out weatherproof, I believe in that wholeheartedly, ammo is more susceptible to the elements. Just my experience...

 

[Tactically Fat]

Guys, explain to me the logic of having a $5,000 safe.... I can't understand the logic at all.... Element proof I understand to a point, but if criminals go through and commit crimes of residential entry and burglarize your home, they will take the things they want, firearms being one of them... I have Stack on Tactical modular safe, their same ammo storage safe, and a top safe also from Stack On, along with a bedside safe... My nightstand safe is hidden in plain sight, but the others are in my office/safe space/war room... I have taken hundreds of reports, a good majority of them had safes, some I recognized from Brady's here locally. All were destroyed, of course with right time, tools, and resourceful criminals will get into it and take what they want... Then nothing is technically "safe" if that's the reason... All it does is store your firearms, nothing more. If you clean and prep, store loaded or unloaded, whatever the method to your madness is, they should be fine in a cardboard box essentially... Not saying that is optimal of course, just can't wrap my head around it... I just think the $$$ could be spent elsewhere better... And I picked Stack On for their great customer service... I have all matching lock cylinders, along with them being what an hour or 2 drive into socialist Illinois in case something happens.

Ammo cans I can understand being maxed out weatherproof, I believe in that wholeheartedly, ammo is more susceptible to the elements. Just my experience...

Real Gun Safe Reviews You Can Trust - Gun Safe Reviews Guy

All things are not created equal.

True safes can't be broken into in just a few minutes with hand tools. RSCs can.

Some people have the $ for a true safe. *I* wish I had the $ for a true safe.

If I had a high dollar machine gun...or two (and there are many people who do) a safe to store them in is relatively inexpensive insurance against theft.

True safes will often be truly fire-rated. Actually tested to UL standards.

Some people are happy with their Ruger American pistols. Some people want a brace of Sig P210s.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

I have seen plasma cutters take those "true safes" apart in seconds... That's why I said what I said... From experience... Its not relatively inexpensive, just buy insurance for theft coverage. I have 2 policies, USCCA and USAA... Complete and total coverage for actually not that expensive at all a month...

 

[BE Mike]

I have seen plasma cutters take those "true safes" apart in seconds... That's why I said what I said... From experience... Its not relatively inexpensive, just buy insurance for theft coverage. I have 2 policies, USCCA and USAA... Complete and total coverage for actually not that expensive at all a month...

The fact is that a true safe keeps kids, meth heads and the average puke out. It isn't just the money tied up in the guns, it's trying to make a reasonable effort to keep them out of the wrong hands. The best protection is to have good neighbors and not advertise.

 

[zippy23]

BUY A JOHNSON SAFE. Almost every single big box store uses CHINESE STEEL. This is very bad. Johnson uses american steel. You literally pay for what you get. Most big box store safes are 10 or 12 gauge steel. My Johnson(giggle) is 7 gauge with a 3/8" steel door. You pay for steel, you just do. Then there are seems...do you want actually welded seems or just some cheap spot welded seems that dont seal it up right? Do you want a cheap interior? Johnsons are made by him. His son paints the safes.....at his shop.....on his land where its all made in zionsville. You can get cheap interior with usb power supplies and expensive lighting or get a real safe that actually does something. Middle of the road johnson safe weighs 850 pounds. Same size safe at the store weighs 650 pounds. why??? STEEL THICKNESS. plus american stuff is way better than chinese stuff. And to let you in a secret.....you know the bolts that lock the door? Most chain safe companies will skimp on one or two bolts..why? $5 a bolt over a million safes makes them rich and gives you a less quality product. Or you can have yourself a Johnson, a really nice big fat Johnson(giggle again). Just to let you know, it'll take a couple months because he has that many orders, or you can get yourself a chinese made safe, with cheap carpet covered cheap wood interior with usb chargers so you can listen to your iphone in your safe, or you can get a real safe. Its only for guns, and important papers, and maybe precious metals, and ammo and family heirlooms, ya know, nothing worth spending money on right????

 

[aaron580]

Im curious, I am actually looking for a "safe" currently, my apartment complex is pretty well secure and I cannot imagine anybody doing more than a snatch and grab scenario at all, is a stack on or cannon at least decent for this? Ill have so much inside it that somebody isnt moving it once its in, and there are so many neighbors that they would be heard pretty quick. My safe budget doesn't exactly fall in a johnson or some of those options...

 

[STFU]

The best protection is to have good neighbors and not advertise.

^^^^^^This! ^^^^^^

I went with a SecureIt Tactical (bolted to concrete) and a solid insurance policy.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I have seen plasma cutters take those "true safes" apart in seconds... That's why I said what I said... From experience... Its not relatively inexpensive, just buy insurance for theft coverage. I have 2 policies, USCCA and USAA... Complete and total coverage for actually not that expensive at all a month...

I don't believe that for a second (see what I did there?).

The lowest end of the "true safes" is a TL-15 plate-steel safe. If built to certain construction standards doled out by UL, they don't even have to endure the testing because US knows that their highly skilled personnel cannot break into the safe using certain tools, in the 15 minutes allotted. Those plate-steel safes are comprised of the equivalent of 1" thick 55ksi steel on the 5 sides and 1.5" on the door. From there, you have a few TL-15 safes that don't follow the "TL-15 plate-steel construction method), those safes must be tested, and if they cannot get in within 15 minutes, it passes the rating. The next step in "real safes" is the composites (2 or more steel/metal walls with concrete or concrete-like materials in the walls). These safes can carry TL-15 labels but usually it's pretty easy to get them to bear a TL-30 label, which has additional tools added to the complement and they get 30 minutes to crack into it. Make no mistake, a plasma cutter isn't going to aid that process any. The tools they get to use for TL-30 tests are sufficient to surpass the abilities of a plasma cutter when attacking a concrete composite safe. They still have to cut the outside steel off, smash the concrete with masonry hammers and/or sledge-hammers, and then breach the inner steel with a hole 6 square inches (IIRC).

So, plasma isn't breaching a concrete composite safe so lets focus on the TL-15 plate safes and the like.

Having run plenty of high amperage plasma cutters (I believe 120 A is the biggest I've run) I can say that not even a high-amperage plasma will take care of steel that thick that quickly. It may defeat the safe in 15 minutes, but not "seconds". Plus, most thieves don't come to the "job-site" with a plasma cutter nearly that capable. And any safe-owner that keeps their plasma cutter near their safe is just asking for trouble. Plasma is not one of the tools permitted in the TL-15, or even TL-30 tests, I believe you have to get to the TRTL ratings (torch & tool) before plasma, torches, and thermal lances are permitted. Of course, if you really do was a "real safe" capable of keeping the most dedicated and educated attackers out, you want a TXTL (torch, explosives, & tools)... even used, those will cost high 5-figure range or low 6-figure range. They will also weight a LOT. My TL-15 safe is 3,000 lbs, my dad's TL-30 safe is 2800 lbs (smaller size), a reasonable size TXTL safe is likely to be at least 20,000 lbs and have walls at least 8" thick.

That being said, the RSC rating is a crappy rating. It rates ONLY the door for 5 minutes of attack and it leaves manufacturers open to make pop-can thin sides/top/etc. Which is what they do. A saws-all can cut an RSC open in mere minutes. A pick-axe can puncture the sides. A heavy pry-bar and deform the safe so easily that the locking bolts no longer engage. Of course, none of that matters because the pry-bar used for the RSC rating is shorter than those commonly available so any meth-head with a prybar already has a leg up on the UL testing personnel.

There is a Level II RSC rating coming out from UL in an attempt to stop manufacturers from putting all efforts into the door and none into the body. It is essentially a TL-10X6 rating, which means the UL personnel get 10 minutes and they can attack any of the 6 sides. The tool compliment will still be limited (keeping in line with the RSC rating) but at least the sides will be tested now.

The actual security of an RSC from TL rated safes is so drastically different that they aren't on the same playing field... give me a grinder, prybar and 5-minutes, I'll have just about any RSC popped open. Give me a grinder and 30-minutes and I would still struggle to open a TL-15 safe. Why the drastic difference? It's because of the tool compliment used by the testers and the manner in which tests are conducted. Tests for RSC are permitted very little in tools (drill, screw-driver, short pry-bar, hammer, and a few others I can't recall right now), the clock runs continuous so if the testers want to stop and study the blue-prints of the safe or catch a breath, they burn time doing so. TL and higher have better tool compliments, TL-15 get things like large grinder, masonry hammer-drill (rotary hammer), large sledge-hammer etc thrown in IIRC, and the clock only runs while tools/hands are on the safe (that means if the testers want to stop and study their progress, catch their breath etc, the clock stops too). The safe testers get to study the blueprints and come up with an attack plan before the test begins. Your meth-head doesn't. Sometimes he may have better tools (plasma cutter etc) but that only buys him so much... he better have knowledge of how best to attack a safe as well. If you gave the average home thief the tool compliment of a TL-15 test and unlimited time to crack a TL-15 safe, it would take him hours.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I don't believe that for a second (see what I did there?).

The lowest end of the "true safes" is a TL-15 plate-steel safe. If built to certain construction standards doled out by UL, they don't even have to endure the testing because US knows that their highly skilled personnel cannot break into the safe using certain tools, in the 15 minutes allotted. Those plate-steel safes are comprised of the equivalent of 1" thick 55ksi steel on the 5 sides and 1.5" on the door. From there, you have a few TL-15 safes that don't follow the "TL-15 plate-steel construction method), those safes must be tested, and if they cannot get in within 15 minutes, it passes the rating. The next step in "real safes" is the composites (2 or more steel/metal walls with concrete or concrete-like materials in the walls). These safes can carry TL-15 labels but usually it's pretty easy to get them to bear a TL-30 label, which has additional tools added to the complement and they get 30 minutes to crack into it. Make no mistake, a plasma cutter isn't going to aid that process any. The tools they get to use for TL-30 tests are sufficient to surpass the abilities of a plasma cutter when attacking a concrete composite safe. They still have to cut the outside steel off, smash the concrete with masonry hammers and/or sledge-hammers, and then breach the inner steel with a hole 6 square inches (IIRC).

So, plasma isn't breaching a concrete composite safe so lets focus on the TL-15 plate safes and the like.

Having run plenty of high amperage plasma cutters (I believe 120 A is the biggest I've run) I can say that not even a high-amperage plasma will take care of steel that thick that quickly. It may defeat the safe in 15 minutes, but not "seconds". Plus, most thieves don't come to the "job-site" with a plasma cutter nearly that capable. And any safe-owner that keeps their plasma cutter near their safe is just asking for trouble. Plasma is not one of the tools permitted in the TL-15, or even TL-30 tests, I believe you have to get to the TRTL ratings (torch & tool) before plasma, torches, and thermal lances are permitted. Of course, if you really do was a "real safe" capable of keeping the most dedicated and educated attackers out, you want a TXTL (torch, explosives, & tools)... even used, those will cost high 5-figure range or low 6-figure range. They will also weight a LOT. My TL-15 safe is 3,000 lbs, my dad's TL-30 safe is 2800 lbs (smaller size), a reasonable size TXTL safe is likely to be at least 20,000 lbs and have walls at least 8" thick.

That being said, the RSC rating is a crappy rating. It rates ONLY the door for 5 minutes of attack and it leaves manufacturers open to make pop-can thin sides/top/etc. Which is what they do. A saws-all can cut an RSC open in mere minutes. A pick-axe can puncture the sides. A heavy pry-bar and deform the safe so easily that the locking bolts no longer engage. Of course, none of that matters because the pry-bar used for the RSC rating is shorter than those commonly available so any meth-head with a prybar already has a leg up on the UL testing personnel.

There is a Level II RSC rating coming out from UL in an attempt to stop manufacturers from putting all efforts into the door and none into the body. It is essentially a TL-10X6 rating, which means the UL personnel get 10 minutes and they can attack any of the 6 sides. The tool compliment will still be limited (keeping in line with the RSC rating) but at least the sides will be tested now.

The actual security of an RSC from TL rated safes is so drastically different that they aren't on the same playing field... give me a grinder, prybar and 5-minutes, I'll have just about any RSC popped open. Give me a grinder and 30-minutes and I would still struggle to open a TL-15 safe. Why the drastic difference? It's because of the tool compliment used by the testers and the manner in which tests are conducted. Tests for RSC are permitted very little in tools (drill, screw-driver, short pry-bar, hammer, and a few others I can't recall right now), the clock runs continuous so if the testers want to stop and study the blue-prints of the safe or catch a breath, they burn time doing so. TL and higher have better tool compliments, TL-15 get things like large grinder, masonry hammer-drill (rotary hammer), large sledge-hammer etc thrown in IIRC, and the clock only runs while tools/hands are on the safe (that means if the testers want to stop and study their progress, catch their breath etc, the clock stops too). The safe testers get to study the blueprints and come up with an attack plan before the test begins. Your meth-head doesn't. Sometimes he may have better tools (plasma cutter etc) but that only buys him so much... he better have knowledge of how best to attack a safe as well. If you gave the average home thief the tool compliment of a TL-15 test and unlimited time to crack a TL-15 safe, it would take him hours.

We don't have to worry about Mr. Know-it-All / Never Wrong any more. He's been shootered.

But - yes. Hopefully many others will read what you've written here.

As far as RSCs go, Johnson's stuff seems to be pretty good. Better welds, better/thicker steel, better door framing / internal hinges, etc etc than most of his competition. And it's certainly better than most all of the mass-produced "big name" safes that you see sold in all manner of stores and shops. I do wonder, though, if his higher end safes would come close to the TL-15 based on the steel alone. We'll never know because that testing is incredibly expensive.

More notes on the TL-15 and TL-30 ratings: The people doing the testing have a plan in place before they begin the timer. If their plan isn't working, they stop the timer and are allowed to discuss the methods by which they'll gain entry. THEN they start the time again. A TL-15 test almost assuredly takes longer than 15 minutes of wailing and bashing and cutting and prying. And they're not amateurs - this is what they do for a living. If it takes experienced safe breaker-inners more than 15 minutes - then even a basic mope criminal and a few tools still isn't getting in without a serious amount of work. And noise. A TL-30 is basically impenetrable by average schmoes with burglary tools.

RSCs can generally be layed over and pried into in 5 minutes with a spud bar and a pry bar.

So - where does that leave the overwhelming majority of us, like aaron580? Buy the best RSC that you can afford. If you have to go a size smaller (GASP!) to get a thicker steel - think about doing that. Don't tell anyone about it if you can. Damned hard to do that in an apartment. BOLT IT DOWN if at all possible. Seriously. Tipping a safe over and prying at the door seam is the easiest and quickest way to gain access. If it can't be tipped over - that takes away leverage as an advantage. Can't really do that in an apartment, however. Layer your security. Lights. Motion detectors. They now have devices that you put IN your safes to send you text messages if your safe is opened.

If *I* had a ton of stuff to keep secure in an apartment - I'd seriously seek out another place to put a safe. A buddy's house... A storage unit (either climate controlled or one that at least has 1 outlet) with a concrete floor. I'd put the safe in the storage unit, shut the door, then lag it to their floor. Plug in a dehumidifier and then pray no one saw me put the safe in there. Upon moving the thing out, I'd put some self-leveler in the holes I left behind and call it good.

 

[Mmccalip]

Buy as good of quality and as much size as you can afford. You don’t want to have to upgrade in a few years.

 

[Hop]

We don't have to worry about Mr. Know-it-All / Never Wrong any more. He's been shootered.

Grr... his screen name indicated he drove a DSM. We are/were 4G63 turbocharged all-wheel-drive family. What domestic driving, rice burner hating Mod shootered him!

 

[K_W]

As far as RSCs go, Johnson's stuff seems to be pretty good. Better welds, better/thicker steel, better door framing / internal hinges, etc etc than most of his competition. And it's certainly better than most all of the mass-produced "big name" safes that you see sold in all manner of stores and shops. I do wonder, though, if his higher end safes would come close to the TL-15 based on the steel alone. We'll never know because that testing is incredibly expensive.

I have a Johnson... it's far superior to most retail RSC's, but would not stand up to a determined thief with free access to your typical car guy's home garage (like mine). 20 minutes with your 6 amp grinder, a couple cut off wheels, and a pry bar and he's got a long gun size hole in the top side... but that's a long time compared to only about 5 minutes to do the same to a normal 12 or 14 gauge wall, composite door, retail RSC. Johnson's start at 10 gauge, which is nearly twice as thick as a comparably priced (~$1000 range) Liberty Pro Vault which is 14 gauge (0.1345 vs 0.0781).

The heavy tools in the UL tests would breach a Johnson in 5 minutes, but your average thief doesn't have that luxury.

Lock your doors, have an alarm, bolt down your safe, keep your cutting tools secured, and a Johnson is plenty of protection.

[video=youtube;0SQTS2u4HFo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SQTS2u4HFo[/video]

 

[Thegeek]

BUY A JOHNSON SAFE. Almost every single big box store uses CHINESE STEEL. This is very bad. Johnson uses american steel. You literally pay for what you get. Most big box store safes are 10 or 12 gauge steel. My Johnson(giggle) is 7 gauge with a 3/8" steel door. You pay for steel, you just do. Then there are seems...do you want actually welded seems or just some cheap spot welded seems that dont seal it up right? Do you want a cheap interior? Johnsons are made by him. His son paints the safes.....at his shop.....on his land where its all made in zionsville. You can get cheap interior with usb power supplies and expensive lighting or get a real safe that actually does something. Middle of the road johnson safe weighs 850 pounds. Same size safe at the store weighs 650 pounds. why??? STEEL THICKNESS. plus american stuff is way better than chinese stuff. And to let you in a secret.....you know the bolts that lock the door? Most chain safe companies will skimp on one or two bolts..why? $5 a bolt over a million safes makes them rich and gives you a less quality product. Or you can have yourself a Johnson, a really nice big fat Johnson(giggle again). Just to let you know, it'll take a couple months because he has that many orders, or you can get yourself a chinese made safe, with cheap carpet covered cheap wood interior with usb chargers so you can listen to your iphone in your safe, or you can get a real safe. Its only for guns, and important papers, and maybe precious metals, and ammo and family heirlooms, ya know, nothing worth spending money on right????

No such thing as "American steel" anymore. It's all Chinese.

 

[Thegeek]

Guys, explain to me the logic of having a $5,000 safe.....

For me, the safe is just a deterrent for thieves. It's protection against fire. I have family heirlooms in mine. Things no money or insurance can replace. Since Johnson uses a better fire protection that Liberty or Ft. Knox, I went with a Johnson. Buy once, cry once.

 

[K_W]

No such thing as "American steel" anymore. It's all Chinese.

We still have some steel mills... but yes, most steel is imported.