What is a good knife for stabbing people?

[kawtech87]

From what I've read the Gerber De facto was designed for modern CQC knife fighting techniques taught to our troops. From the specs it seems like a good knife but would serve little other purpose than its use a weapon.

De Facto Knife

 

[mercop]

Well, few people in the continental United States have been killed or injured by knives designed for cutting or stabbing people. Most are kitchen knives, box cutters, and screwdrivers. Tools used as improvised weapons. It is all very academic since my research has shown that that just about the only time people stab is when they are the attacker. Body mechanics make it pretty impossible to stab when defending yourself / being pushed backwards. Because of this I primarily teach Inverted Edge Tactics for the defensive use of edged weapons. Basically point shooting for knives. It is about cuttings someone off of you. Truth be known your are about as likely to have the time an opportunity to use a knife to defend yourself as you are to use a sniper rifle in your house....it could happen but training time could be better spend other places......like open hand combatives.- George

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Well, few people in the continental United States have been killed or injured by knives designed for cutting or stabbing people. Most are kitchen knives, box cutters, and screwdrivers. Tools used as improvised weapons. It is all very academic since my research has shown that that just about the only time people stab is when they are the attacker. Body mechanics make it pretty impossible to stab when defending yourself / being pushed backwards. Because of this I primarily teach Inverted Edge Tactics for the defensive use of edged weapons. Basically point shooting for knives. It is about cuttings someone off of you. Truth be known your are about as likely to have the time an opportunity to use a knife to defend yourself as you are to use a sniper rifle in your house....it could happen but training time could be better spend other places......like open hand combatives.- George

Thank you for your response. It is my understanding that you are a serious person who has experience in this subject.

You are absolutely correct about this being "all very academic". I always carry a knife (unless there is a metal detector), but I have absolutely no intention of using it to cut anyone. I guess I look at my knife like my flashlight, sure I could hit/cut someone with it, but that's not why I carry it.

I meant for this to be an academic discussion, but it has provided the unexpected benefit of bringing up the defensive use of blades and slashing vs stabbing in self defense. As a matter of fact, it lead me to the following thread I found informative:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/cutting-edge/72133-inverted-edge-tactics.html

Back to the academic discussion; I currently think this is my top bet for a good stabbing knife: Cold Steel Counter Tac Series
I was thinking the Gerber Mark II would be a good stabbing knife, but the current version does not have a full tang and that seems to be an issue.


Since we have drifted into the self defense side of things, I have a question for George and any of you other fellows who have experience in the field. If you had to defend yourself against an attacker armed with a knife, would you rather have a knife in your own hand or be open handed? I can see how you might want to be open handed so that you could grapple better and go for control/disarm, but I have no experience in this.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Well, few people in the continental United States have been killed or injured by knives designed for cutting or stabbing people. Most are kitchen knives, box cutters, and screwdrivers.

1. Dirty, crappy kitchen knife.

2. Booze or drugs on board.

3. They slash, they don't stab.*


*One exception, LPD found a guy I had worked for before with a kitchen knife sticking out of his eye socket as he sat on the front porch smoking, waiting on the cops. He lived and his vision is fine. I saw him in the Tippecanoe County courthouse this very day.

 

[bwframe]

...Since we have drifted into the self defense side of things, I have a question for George and any of you other fellows who have experience in the field. If you had to defend yourself against an attacker armed with a knife, would you rather have a knife in your own hand or be open handed? I can see how you might want to be open handed so that you could grapple better and go for control/disarm, but I have no experience in this.

What were we talking about before we drifted?

Myself, I'll leave the blade for surprise and roll with the light in my left hand. Lighting them up is a major hindrance in a lot of ways.

 

[Alamo]

Well, few people in the continental United States have been killed or injured by knives designed for cutting or stabbing people. Most are kitchen knives, box cutters, and screwdrivers.

1. Dirty, crappy kitchen knife.

2. Booze or drugs on board.

3. They slash, they don't stab.*
.

As noted before, stabbing and knives made for stabbing tends to be offensively, somewhat premeditated oriented. The attacker gets to sneak up and choose his target - throat, heart, sublavian artery, etc. So long, strong, and pointed are requirements, edges not so much. Hence professionals use Fairbairn-Sykes, V-42, bayonets, stilettos. This gets politicians excited, so they ban those things for civilian carry and use as much as possible. So what stabbing attacks that are initiated by Joe Shmoes tend to use non-professional equipment -- ordinary knives, screw drivers, icepicks, and so forth. A lot easier to BS the police about why you are carrying that thing. Not that the police will necessarily believe you, but gives your lawyer something to work with.

I suspect the events experienced by Mr. Freeman's clientele are less premeditated attacks and more impulse-driven and/or self-defense driven, so whatever comes to hand is used. Dave Grossman goes into some depth about humans having a visceral reluctance to stab - my personal jury is out on whether that is really innate or it's just that people are more used to cutting and slicing in general rather than stabbing.

In self-defense situations, I also suspect that knives are used much less often simply because not many people train to actually use a knife under pressure -- to be able to get a hand (and either hand, by the way) on it, unfold it or unsheath it, and employ it while under attack, and maybe with someone sitting on their chests. Certainly a lot more people train to use a handgun, and have a natural tendency to use hands and feet that open hand combatives builds on, than train to use a knife defensively. So I think the lack of defensive knife use is less about effectiveness and more about familiarity and training.

Open hand combatives versus knife is time well-spent I think, because the very nature of the most likely scenario is going to be a bad guy with knife-like weapon in his hand versus good-guy with gun and/or knife holstered/sheathed -- in other words empty handed. But it is a specialized open-hand combatives -- you have to do something about that knife the other guy has, you can't use techniques or moves that leave you open to being cut and stabbed. You don't win if you choke out your opponent but bleed to death from all the new openings in your body. And it's not a great win if you have to use a colostomy bag the rest of your life.

So the question of whether it is better to face a knife attacker empty-handed or with a knife is generally moot, I think.

But if I have some warning before the guy is on top of me, if he is beyond touching distance I would prefer to use my gun; if he is on top of me I have to deal with his knife first (i.e. not get stabbed), and then use whatever I can get my hand on -- knife, gun, his knife, bottle, his throat, etc until I can get away or convince him he really needs to stop this. It mostly depends on what is possible to do.

Again, Tom Sotis is a guy to google up for this. He teaches knives, defense against knives, and open hand combatives in dealing with a knife (which has to be considered always even if you don't see a knife at first. Google him up.

But back to the original question: long, strong, narrow, and pointed is the stabber's first choice.

 

[warthog]

if you lack training with a knife, or experience.... these are some of the best ways to stab someone.

 

[Gabriel]

1. Dirty, crappy kitchen knife.


3. They slash, they don't stab.*

#1 is absoultley correct. Every knife victim I've seen except one (that I can recall) has been at the pointy end of a crappy kitchen knife... usually a steak knife from a knife block. They seem to work pretty well.

#3 I don't buy. Almost every victim of someone with a knife I've seen has been stabbed. Almost all of the people I've seen that have been "sliced" actually did it to themselves in an attempt to get someone else in trouble (usually a boyfriend or girlfriend).

 

[shootersix]

Thank you for your response. It is my understanding that you are a serious person who has experience in this subject.

You are absolutely correct about this being "all very academic". I always carry a knife (unless there is a metal detector), but I have absolutely no intention of using it to cut anyone. I guess I look at my knife like my flashlight, sure I could hit/cut someone with it, but that's not why I carry it.

I meant for this to be an academic discussion, but it has provided the unexpected benefit of bringing up the defensive use of blades and slashing vs stabbing in self defense. As a matter of fact, it lead me to the following thread I found informative:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/cutting-edge/72133-inverted-edge-tactics.html

Back to the academic discussion; I currently think this is my top bet for a good stabbing knife: Cold Steel Counter Tac Series
I was thinking the Gerber Mark II would be a good stabbing knife, but the current version does not have a full tang and that seems to be an issue.


Since we have drifted into the self defense side of things, I have a question for George and any of you other fellows who have experience in the field. If you had to defend yourself against an attacker armed with a knife, would you rather have a knife in your own hand or be open handed? I can see how you might want to be open handed so that you could grapple better and go for control/disarm, but I have no experience in this.

me id rather not worry about a knife, because if at all possiable, ive blocked with my left arm, thrown a punch to the attackers face with my right hand, backed up a few steps, and drawn my pistol, like i said im a earlier post, "in a knife fight, the winner bleeds, and the looser gushes"

if you want to get a real feel for knife fighting, go to some "reality based" self defense class, and watch what happens, in my krav maga classes, i defended myself from knife attacks, in my training, at no point did i ever learn, or have time to mess with a knife, it was block, attack,attack,attack, till the attacker was on the ground wincing in pain,i had taken away their knife, and if i had my pistol, i would have thrown their knife away(behind me) and drawn my gun!

the old saying, never bring a knife to a gun fight