What you guys think about this electric truck?

[Hawkeye]

Agree, because the cost per ton-mile of rail is many times better than an OTR truck. But since our betters decided we should rip out much of our old railways and replace them with McMansions and highways, we're stuck with trucks.

And better than all the rest is the container ship. Talk about your energy storage and low cost per ton-mile.

We've still got a lot of rail lines to get goods across the country to local distribution centers, then the trucks can take over. Maybe that is already being done, but don't think so,.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Agree, because the cost per ton-mile of rail is many times better than an OTR truck. But since our betters decided we should rip out much of our old railways and replace them with McMansions and highways, we're stuck with trucks.

And better than all the rest is the container ship. Talk about your energy storage and low cost per ton-mile.

Lean production did more to kill trains than developers. You have to warehouse WIP if you rely on rail. The business model coming from the IVY towers said that carrying WIP is just wasted money and what you really need is to get the parts and pieces and food and what not delivered the day that you actually need it.

We used to have dedicated rail at our factory to bring in supplies and ship out engines at dedicated warehouses. Now it is all done with trucks. If we have more than 25 engines waiting on dock, that is a lot. We used to warehouse hundreds of them, and enough spare parts to service the entire fleet. It's stupid though. Warehousing is still necessary, we just pay someone else to do it now.

Affordable air travel also killed off passenger rail.

 

[ATOMonkey]

And, about towing..


[video=youtube;jhX3BmhJXc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8[/video]

lolz... Wow, that is abysmal.

 

[schmart]

One question I have.
But how do you certify the charging station?
It can be done.
But, are they doing it?
Anyone think the power company is above reproach?

IMO it depends on who you are questioning... the power company, or the charger system operator? I'm not going to get into power company metering, but it is known that mechanical meters would slow down and cause errors in metering, although usually at the benefit of the customer.

If you are looking at the charging operator, typically they don't charge based on KW provided, but rather on minutes spent charging. Since you aren't being billed by KW, I wouldn't care if the metering was off. The per minute charges would be pretty easy to track.

--Rick

 

[ATOMonkey]

IMO it depends on who you are questioning... the power company, or the charger system operator? I'm not going to get into power company metering, but it is known that mechanical meters would slow down and cause errors in metering, although usually at the benefit of the customer.

If you are looking at the charging operator, typically they don't charge based on KW provided, but rather on minutes spent charging. Since you aren't being billed by KW, I wouldn't care if the metering was off. The per minute charges would be pretty easy to track.

--Rick

Per minute charging isn't fantastic either. When your battery is flat, you will get more KW-hr/$ and when it's nearly full you'll get much less. The lower the voltage differential, the less amperage.

I say charge people by the KW-hr, just like they do on the side of my house.

 

[actaeon277]

It depends on the charging company. I've watched videos similar to the one above, to try to keep up with things.
One of them showed a guy demonstrating various apps that would show charging locations, and allow him to pay without swiping a card (stored credit info).

And some companies charged by the minute, some by the kw/min.

 

[jek]

On the note of battery capacity, I would look at the development of solid state batteries. Toyota announced in the past few months that they will debut a vehicle running on solid state batteries at the Tokyo Olympics next year (Cnet article if I remember right). While we dont know exactly the specs of those batteries, solid state batteries in general represent a huge step forward in energy density and, you know, not burning when punctured. If you've never seen a video of Li-X batteries undergoing a puncture test, I would recommend. It's pretty cool, but I digress.
H is right, that fossil fuels are a high bar for energy, but I certainly wouldn't say it'll never get replaced. Give it a decade or two and I'll speculate that the majority of vehicles will be electric. Hybrid at least (which has it's own advantages and disadvantages especially regarding something like back country trips)

 

[actaeon277]

Recharge time is the killer.
Maybe if they had some way for a battery swap.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Recharge time is the killer.
Maybe if they had some way for a battery swap.

Pretty sure that swapping out the battery bank would take a lot longer than a recharge. I don't think it would be as simple as swapping out the battery on your cordless drill.

 

[jkaetz]

Pretty sure that swapping out the battery bank would take a lot longer than a recharge. I don't think it would be as simple as swapping out the battery on your cordless drill.

That's the point, quick battery change would have to be a design decision. When designed to be done, then it will be much faster than charging. Also will likely introduce its own set of downsides.

 

[jek]

That's the point, quick battery change would have to be a design decision. When designed to be done, then it will be much faster than charging. Also will likely introduce its own set of downsides.

There's talk about having automated pits you drive over that unplug your battery and replace it with a fresh one. Just talk so far as I know.

The hardest part with that would be standardizing battery types and interfaces across multiple manufacturers. Good luck with that.

 

[actaeon277]

There's talk about having automated pits you drive over that unplug your battery and replace it with a fresh one. Just talk so far as I know.

The hardest part with that would be standardizing battery types and interfaces across multiple manufacturers. Good luck with that.

It will (or could) happen.

Cell phones all had their own charging cords.
Every time you got a new phone, you had to get new chargers.

 

[HoughMade]

It will (or could) happen...

Agreed

It's not like there has never been agreement on standardized batteries:

 

[ATOMonkey]

Don't let them fool you, industry types LOVE standards. It makes it much easier to release a product when you don't have to think about how to design it. Just make it to standard.

Batteries are never going to get us to where we want to be. They will always be something we have on hand, because it's better than nothing.

Capacitors would be of better use in a car than batteries, because you're constantly charging and discharging them. Energy density is their biggest hurdle right now.

The best alternative is a device that converts chemical energy into electrical energy on the vehicle. Fast refueling and all the efficiencies of electric motors.

 

[jek]

Don't let them fool you, industry types LOVE standards. It makes it much easier to release a product when you don't have to think about how to design it. Just make it to standard.

Batteries are never going to get us to where we want to be. They will always be something we have on hand, because it's better than nothing.

Capacitors would be of better use in a car than batteries, because you're constantly charging and discharging them. Energy density is their biggest hurdle right now.

The best alternative is a device that converts chemical energy into electrical energy on the vehicle. Fast refueling and all the efficiencies of electric motors.

I think the hardest part of standardizing batteries here would be due to how much the battery pack affects performance. It would be similar to mandating that all engines had to get the same gas mileage. Companies who think they can develop a better battery pack, and therefore a better car, arnt going to want to downgrade or share.

 

[HoughMade]

The market has an answer for that.

Use the standardized battery pack or don't. If you can sell to your customers that your proprietary battery pack brings advantages that the standardized pack doesn't, you will have sales.

If the advancements do not contribute more to the user experience than the convenience of being able to exchange standardized batteries quickly, then people won't buy it. Or, more likely, some will and some won't. Either way, this is how relatively free economies work.

Simple.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[Hohn]

The market has an answer for that.

Use the standardized battery pack or don't. If you can sell to your customers that your proprietary battery pack brings advantages that the standardized pack doesn't, you will have sales.

If the advancements do not contribute more to the user experience than the convenience of being able to exchange standardized batteries quickly, then people won't buy it. Or, more likely, some will and some won't. Either way, this is how relatively free economies work.

Simple.

You could probably make a pretty decent electric vehicle from 200 Makita 18V batteries.

 

[jamil]

I don’t think it would be all that simple to standardize batteries now. There’s a lot of computer control of various battery parameters just to keep the thing from exploding. It’s not that I don’t think they can get there, it’s that it’s not there now and it probably won’t be for a few years.

I think for the next dew years, we’ll see pretty much the same thing we see from all the EV’s so far, proprietary batteries, home charging systems, quick charging stations across the country. For commuting back and forth to work, shuttling kids to school, running errands, maybe delivery, where you use your EV during the day and charge it at night, EV’s make sense for a lot of people. It’s a lot cheaper than gasoline. These vehicles are ready now.

But for the Cybertruck, probably, the market for those will be much smaller than for gas/diesel pickup trucks. Even if it weren’t ugly. Some specs are pretty impressive compared with other half-ton trucks. But charge time is the killer. The range on that F150 will decrease considerably as well while towing a large load. Gas stations are plentiful and you can be in and out in 10 minutes.

What’s surprising is hearing that Elon Musk is looking to classify this truck as “heavy duty”, which means it’s not going to be competing with half ton trucks. At 800hp, 1000 ft/lbs torque, the cybertruck clearly outclasses half ton trucks. It’s not gonna be that easy to win that pulling contest against an F250 diesel. It’s power/torque is in that range, The max gross vehicle weight and towing capacity is probably in the HD truck range too. Maybe that’s why. I think that whatever market the Cybertruck appeals to, it’s doubtful that the typical HD truck buyer will be all that interested.

 

[churchmouse]

I don’t think it would be all that simple to standardize batteries now. There’s a lot of computer control of various battery parameters just to keep the thing from exploding. It’s not that I don’t think they can get there, it’s that it’s not there now and it probably won’t be for a few years.

I think for the next dew years, we’ll see pretty much the same thing we see from all the EV’s so far, proprietary batteries, home charging systems, quick charging stations across the country. For commuting back and forth to work, shuttling kids to school, running errands, maybe delivery, where you use your EV during the day and charge it at night, EV’s make sense for a lot of people. It’s a lot cheaper than gasoline. These vehicles are ready now.

But for the Cybertruck, probably, the market for those will be much smaller than for gas/diesel pickup trucks. Even if it weren’t ugly. Some specs are pretty impressive compared with other half-ton trucks. But charge time is the killer. The range on that F150 will decrease considerably as well while towing a large load. Gas stations are plentiful and you can be in and out in 10 minutes.

What’s surprising is hearing that Elon Musk is looking to classify this truck as “heavy duty”, which means it’s not going to be competing with half ton trucks. At 800hp, 1000 ft/lbs torque, the cybertruck clearly outclasses half ton trucks. It’s not gonna be that easy to win that pulling contest against an F250 diesel. It’s power/torque is in that range, The max gross vehicle weight and towing capacity is probably in the HD truck range too. Maybe that’s why. I think that whatever market the Cybertruck appeals to, it’s doubtful that the typical HD truck buyer will be all that interested.

OK. Without doing a search I wonder what the real world numbers are for keeping one of these things charged up. Is it in line with running an A/C system. What are the true costs. Until I see these real world figures I am not so sure about the costs involved.