Who carries a 1911 and how?

[Pale Rider]

Kimber Ultra II, conditoin 1, don hume IWB

 

[sargknows]

I carry my Para P-13 cocked and locked in a serpa holster. A 1911 is designed to be cocked and locked just like a Glock is designed to be carried one in the chamber or a DA revolver is designed to be carried cylinder full. THe best safety on any gun is between the users ears!! The only "safer" way to carry any gun is completly unloaded but not very usefull in a selfdefense situation.

 

[HeftyLefty39]

I carry my Kimber Pro II Crimson Trace cocked and locked in my Crossbreed Holster...comfortable, easily accessible and concealable, and safe! My Kimber you can't fire unless you've got the safety switch on fire, your hand gripping the grip safe, the slide is all the way forward, and the hammer all the way back. Lots of safety devices that a lot of folks don't really care for....but that's just their opinion. I shoot USPSA and can draw my weapon and fire as quick as all of them. (Granted its not IDPA so i'm not drawing from concealment but...) Review the video for a crossbreed Supertuck holster and some other 1911 holsters that may or may not work for you!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNhIWzxS1E&feature=channel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNhIWzxS1E&feature=channel[/ame]

If I could do it over again...I'd buy a 1911 that didn't require a take down tool for disassembly...but as far as the style of gun and performance I couldn't be happier! I always wanted one and now I have one that will shoot the lights out. I used to not carry mine cocked and locked with safety on because I wasn't comfortable with the idea. It doesn't bother me now though because I've carried it enough and became familiar with it enough that I'm confident its more of a hazard to not have it ready to shoot than it is to have it ready to shoot. Happy hunting to you though and I hope you find what you're looking for. Hope this blog helps you too!

 

[viiiupndhead]

Ditto on the Crossbreed Supertuck. Springfield Champion Loaded (4 inch) in condition one.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I've read several different forums and also articles written by some of the best in the field and I have repeatedly seen the phrase "that is how it was designed to be carried (condition 1)", yet I have not read anywhere that indicated that John Moses Browning designed it to be carried in condition 1.

The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the "Condition" system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. The are:

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

I think what we have here is an illustration that due to various agencies and departmental training methods mandating a standard of carry, it has been ingrained into people that safety is the most important aspect of carrying a 1911.

Here is the only warning and noted statement from Springfield's manual:
"Never leave pistol cocked and ready to fire as the fire
condition is extremely dangerous. Pistol could easily
be accidentally discharged causing injury, death, or
damage to property."

Nowhere does the manual identify the condition it was designed to be carried, so those who are saying it is designed to be carried in condition 1, please sight some manufacturer references, please.

 

[60Driver]

Nowhere does the manual identify the condition it was designed to be carried, so those who are saying it is designed to be carried in condition 1, please sight some manufacturer references, please.

Well this one has been debated all over the place. As a matter of practical experience I think it is accepted that condition one is the prefered method of carry....of course modern manuals are written with liabilty in mind so I doubt you will find Cooper's Condition One there. BUT how about the original Army manual on the 1911

FM 23-35
Basic Field Manual FM 23-35

"b. If it is desired to make the pistol ready for instant use
and for firing the maximum number of shots with the least
possible delay, draw back the slide, insert a cartridge by hand
into the chamber of the barrel, allow the slide to close, then
lock the slide and the cocked hammer by pressing the safety
lock upward and insert a loaded magazine. The slide and
hammer being thus positively locked, the pistol may be carried
safely at full cock and it is only necessary to press down the
safety lock (which is located within easy reach of the thumb)
when raising the pistol to the firing position"

BTW this is a VERY cool read, for all you serious Tactical shooters who are masters of pistol CQB and think you are "good" check out the mounted (as in HORSE!) firing drills, damn I wish I could do that

 

[combat45acp]

Ok, I'm a little late here on this thread. Read all six pages and didn't see anyone state the fact that if you carry a 1911 round in the chamber hammer down that it is dangerous!

If that hammer were to get striked, buy anything, or dropped out of hand or holster that gun can and most likely will go off. Or even if the hammer gets snagged and pulled a 1/4 of the way back it will have the ability to go off!

That said even if you carry with round in chamber, hammer back and thumb safety off (for those who worry) what if the safety goes off while I carry...the gun will still not discharge without the trigger pulled and the grip safety engaged.

This is were a GOOD holster for a 1911 is important. Either form fitted leather or hard plastic, not this cloth crap or soft leather. I have carried my 1911 "cocked and locked" for 14 years in a Galco Royal Guard, no snaps, straps, or velcro.

The only two ways to safely carry is cocked and locked, or no round in chamber.

Oh and the army manual above states to "drop a round in chamber" that is extremely hard on the extractor and it will brake over time!! Always feed the round from the magazine into your 1911 even if you are firing one round at the range, put it in the mag, then into gun. The extractor will have to force itself over the rim of the .45 acp instead of it being fed from the under side into the claw of the extractor.

Worked midnights last night so I hope this all makes sense!

 

[ATF Consumer]

Well this one has been debated all over the place. As a matter of practical experience I think it is accepted that condition one is the prefered method of carry....of course modern manuals are written with liabilty in mind so I doubt you will find Cooper's Condition One there. BUT how about the original Army manual on the 1911

FM 23-35
Basic Field Manual FM 23-35

"b. If it is desired to make the pistol ready for instant use
and for firing the maximum number of shots with the least
possible delay, draw back the slide, insert a cartridge by hand
into the chamber of the barrel, allow the slide to close, then
lock the slide and the cocked hammer by pressing the safety
lock upward and insert a loaded magazine. The slide and
hammer being thus positively locked, the pistol may be carried
safely at full cock and it is only necessary to press down the
safety lock (which is located within easy reach of the thumb)
when raising the pistol to the firing position"

That's exactly what I had suspected...the "design" is not intended to be carried in ONE particular state, thus the phrase, "that's how it was designed to be carried" is just ingrained via training and not really how it was designed to be carried. So, anyone that uses that phrase is basically stating something that isn't exactly true or correct, in turn spreading more false information they have nothing to back it up with.

 

[combat45acp]

Full size mag, cuz I work in Gary! The holster isn't cheap, just over a $100 but it still looks good, gets carried a lot so in the long run it was well worth the money!

 

[60Driver]

Combat 45s,

Completely agree about NOT dropping a round in and then dropping the slide to load!!! Guess I should have put a "caution" in about that when I posted it for these not familiar with the 1911. Clearly we have learned a bit about care and feeding of the design since then.

Great choice in pistols BTW, good friend carries one identical to that (minus the carbon grips).

 

[hip shot]

carry a Para, it is DA so carry it safty on hammer down with round in chamber....... pull trigger after safty off and bam you got round down range.....

 

[Captain Caveman]

I carry a Smith and Wesson 1911 with a blackhawk serpa holster. Always cocked and locked.

 

[Cowboy1629]

Cocked & Locked in a Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 or a Milt Sparks Axiom.

 

[dholmtime]

1911...why? Might as well walk around with a shotgun. They are large hard to conceal and definately overkill for personal protection purposes. Why not carry something less cannon like?

 

[rockhopper46038]

To each their own. Having recently acquired a full size 1911, I've surprised at how well they conceal. It doesn't print much, if any, worse than my P228. I also subscribe to the notion that there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to personal protection. "Less is more" isn't applicable when your life may be on the line!

 

[smitty12b]

1911...why? Might as well walk around with a shotgun. They are large hard to conceal and definately overkill for personal protection purposes. Why not carry something less cannon like?

Really? how many years did you carry the 1911 to come to this conclusion? and hopefully you will learn that there is no such thing as overkill when it come to personal protection.

 

[gunwh]

I carry a Colt 1991 cocked and locked in a leather holster W/ a back strap secured between the hammer and slide.

 

[gunwh]

1911...why? Might as well walk around with a shotgun. They are large hard to conceal and definately overkill for personal protection purposes. Why not carry something less cannon like?

yes it might be heavier than some pistols but on the aspect of hard to conceal ill beg to differ since the profile is no bigger than most Glock's, Sig's,XD's........ the perk is that it is slimmer then most that i have mentioned and can be concealed on the hip with a regular t-shirt un-tucked with little printing. On the aspect of over kill since when is the a state further than dead.. dead = dead

 

[Jay]

1911...why? Might as well walk around with a shotgun. They are large hard to conceal and definately overkill for personal protection purposes. Why not carry something less cannon like?

That's called personal preference. Suit yerself, sir. I've carried a 1911 for many years, and I'm very comfortable with it. Unless I intended for it to happen, very few have ever detected it's presence.

I'd also be interested to know how you come by your statement that a 1911 is overkill. uhhh, that still sounds like personal preference.

 

[melensdad]

1911...why? Might as well walk around with a shotgun. They are large hard to conceal and definately overkill for personal protection purposes. Why not carry something less cannon like?

I'm not sure why you'd make such a bogus claim.

Take a typical alloy frame officer size 1911, it is slimmer than a Glock 26 while being similar in length and height. Its also right about the same weight.

Or compare a typical alloy frame commander sizer 1911, again slimmer than a Glock 19, but similar in length and height. Oh, and right about the same weight.

Now for those who carry a full size XD/m, Glock 17 etc that is roughly the same size as a Government model 1911 and roughly the same weight as an alloy framed full size 1911 too.

In each of the above sizes, a steel frame 1911 will weigh more than the similar size Glock or XD, etc.

But in each case, the 1911 has actually been considered one of the easiest firearms to conceal because they have such flat sides. There is nothing extra to poke out or print against fabric. Personally I find it much more comfortable to carry a small all steel 1911 than it is to carry a Glock 19 or 26.

Just to disprove your statements here are some photos: