WHy All Guns Are Always Loaded

[indiucky]

Every time Kirk opens one of these threads and mocks the accent of a Hoosier Hillbilly's pronunciation of rights....I feel conflicted...On one hand I say "Not again" and on the other hand I say "Yippee!!!!!"

And then grab some safe popcorn to eat...

 

[actaeon277]

 

[ATM]

NRA 3/3 states: "ALWAYS Keep The Gun Unloaded Until Ready To Use". So there's that. Or are you advocating another ruleset altogether? ...

Right, if you don't want the gun ready to use, unload it.

If you want the gun ready to use, load it or leave it loaded.

Loading or unloading is the #3 consideration for a reason: it is less important than #2 and both are less important than #1.

#3 might keep you from ringing your ears or needing to replace books in your backstop.

 

[cordex]

Stored guns aren't being handled...

NRA 3 doesn't strictly apply to stored guns, or unhandled firearms.

As far as the dichotomy spontaneously occurring, that has not been my experience.

Then how exactly does it occur? Do you really believe that Rule 1 is responsible for that?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

NRA 3 doesn't strictly apply to stored guns, or unhandled firearms.


Then how exactly does it occur? Do you really believe that Rule 1 is responsible for that?

Rule 1 certainly implies it and does encourage it in those with a certain literal mindset.

Take guns out of the equation. Let's say I hand you some newfangled electric hand tool. I tell you one of the following:

1) When you use this, you do X, Y, Z if you use it right handed. If you don't, you can hurt yourself.
2) When you use this, you do X, Y, Z. If you don't, you can hurt yourself.

Which one gives you a followup question? The tool may be used exactly the same no matter what hand it's in, but #1 leaves the implication hanging that if you put it in your left hand something changes in order to handle it safely. Else, why specify that condition? Can you honestly say that thought doesn't pop in your head when you read #1? So when you tell people "treat it like it's loaded" the question is, how do you treat it when it's unloaded is just as natural. When you tell people "It's always loaded" that's a lie. A child knows it's not always loaded. You're playing pretend. Then it becomes easier to justify a second mode of handling because you deal with reality, not with pretend.

Treat it like a gun. It's always a gun. It's literally always a gun (assuming you don't destroy it, take it apart, etc) and regardless of mindset that doesn't change. It's a gun if it's loaded. It's a gun if it's unloaded. It's a gun if the condition is unknown. It's a gun if it's abandoned under a bush, rusted shut, and can't be cleared.

 

[cordex]

Rule 1 certainly implies it and does encourage it in those with a certain literal mindset.

The problem with people treating unloaded guns differently than loaded guns unquestionably predates Rule 1 and is true of people who never heard of it. As far as Rule 1 inherently causing people to believe unloaded guns can be handled cavalierly ... outside of these discussions on INGO I've never heard anyone who has expressed that confusion.

Take guns out of the equation. Let's say I hand you some newfangled electric hand tool. I tell you one of the following:

I agree that the way you've written those rules there the second version is much more clear and the first does bring questions to mind. That said, it is a terrible analogy that doesn't speak to the question at hand at all.

So when you tell people "treat it like it's loaded" the question is, how do you treat it when it's unloaded is just as natural.

Are you advocating saying nothing to students about the loaded/unloaded dichotomy, focusing strictly on how guns should be treated safely, and just hoping that no one figures out on their own that an unloaded gun acts different than a loaded gun? Or do you advocate making explicit that the rules always apply whether the gun is loaded or not?

If someone wants to willfully twist and misinterpret safety rules, any rule can be misconstrued leading to bad outcomes. For example:
"ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction."

Hmm ... okay, so since I know "safe direction" necessarily might mean something different for a BB gun, a .22LR, a 9mm, a 12 gauge, .308WIN, a .50BMG, and so on, we can obviously see that the safety of a direction depends entirely on the ability of the given firearm to launch a projectile that can reach and damage something important if it were to fire. If there is nothing loaded in the firearm, then obviously nothing could ever be damaged at any range. For an unloaded gun any direction is safe!

That somebody with a certain literal mindset could use the above to come to the conclusion that it's okay to misbehave with an unloaded firearm doesn't mean that the rule is bad or has failed.

When you tell people "It's always loaded" that's a lie. A child knows it's not always loaded. You're playing pretend.

You are absolutely correct that it is playing pretend. It is the exact same pretend that "a gun is always a gun so you should pretend it can do harm even if it literally can't" requires, just with fewer layers of obfuscation. Again, both sides are saying effectively the same thing - that no matter what, certain safety steps must be taken with firearms - even if those safety steps don't intuitively make sense.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It is the exact same pretend that "a gun is always a gun so you should pretend it can do harm even if it literally can't" requires, just with fewer layers of obfuscation.

I don't recall saying pretend it can cause harm. When I've dry fired for 5 minutes, I know the gun can't cause harm unless I drop it on my toe. That doesn't mean I should treat it differently. That goes back to there's one way to handle a gun. Like it's a gun. Loaded/unloaded/capable of causing harm/incapable of causing harm, until it's broken down into component parts it's a gun and is treated like a gun.

As for the rest, I've laid it out as clearly as I can. Restating or rephrasing seems unlikely to reach anyone who hasn't already gotten it.

 

[BugI02]

Less filling

 

[actaeon277]

Less filling

More taste

 

[cbhausen]

tastes great

FIFY