Why do I keep hearing people say 9mm is not adequate for home/self defense?

[Hohn]

I'll take a copy. Send me your email via pm as I cannot pm yet.

Thanks

Bahbo

I can't send PM's either. If you can post your email addy in here, I'll send it. (use the nospam verions where you spell out name at host dot com.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Yes. Mine's a .45ACP, but I have a couple of 9s too. A 9 para will penetrate fine and the HPs expand about as reliably as anything else. However, my .45 is 12+1. How many 9s would you need to make a hole that big? Exercise left to the student, because I'm just not caring right now.

 

[Hohn]

I'd think that a heavy 147gr load of 9mm with a quality LE type bullet (Ranger T, HST, Gold Dot, etc) would be very competitive with medium-for caliber or light-for caliber loadings in other calibers in a real world basis.

Of course, you could always choose a 9mm Ultra Mag (aka, .357 SIG) and get a little more juice-- probably less penetration but larger expanded diameter. It really depend on the bullet, though.

None of this stuff exists in a vacuum.

 

[churchmouse]

Most popular calibers 9mm and up perform about the same. Shot placement is by far the most critical determining factor for effective neutralization of the target. Besides who can argue with a gun that can hold 20 rounds of your favorite Hollow Points!!

My .45 ACP has 20 rd. capability.
Still do not want to be shot with a 9mm or a .22 short for that matter.

 

[Fixer]

My .45 ACP has 20 rd. capability.
Still do not want to be shot with a 9mm or a .22 short for that matter.

Nice. My EDC hold 13+1 in 45acp

 

[Hohn]

@ Churchmouse: Tommy gun?

 

[Trooper]

I was with some folks who do special operations (military). They prefer the .45 or .40 when they are defending their home territory (personal home or operations base) as it has stopping power. But on the road they perfer the 9mm as they are not interesting in stopping the threat but rather being able to disengage quickly. Thus the 9mm will wound but second shots are quicker. Thus a couple of rounds into the opposing force individual will screw him up thus giving you chance to get away.

Never thought in terms like that.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Most popular calibers 9mm and up perform about the same. Shot placement is by far the most critical determining factor for effective neutralization of the target. Besides who can argue with a gun that can hold 20 rounds of your favorite Hollow Points!!

Carry a G19 with 16 rds, plus 2 spares. In the house, I switch to a 33rd mag, plus one in the pipe. Are 34 rounds of 115 gr. +P+ 9BPLE JHPs not adequate?

I guess some people just believe that one .45ACP is better than 34 9x19mms.

 

[HandK]

Those people that say a 9mm is inadequate for home defense have never been shot with a 9mm.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Those people that say a 9mm is inadequate for home defense have never been shot with a 9mm.

or a .22

 

[joshualee49]

I have been EDC'ing the wife's LC9 lately (when she isn't). 7 rounds of JHPs are good for me. I will switch back to my Commander once this ridiculous heat subsides, but for now the LC9 is what fits into my carry system.

I feel adequately protected as I regularly shoot the gun. Just took it to the range today with the Colt. I ran 50 rounds of FMJ and 2 mags of the defensive ammo I use. I was hitting generally in center mass at 12-15 yards so I am confident in my ability to engage a threat at the average defensive range.

The main thing is - practice with what you carry!

 

[Matt52]

I think that this will end the debate. Ive heard of elephant that was killed with a 41 mag and a belt mtn punch bullet. So I think a 9mm will do just fine. This coming from a 45acp fan.

 

[ckcollins2003]

If any person willingly states that they don't think a certain cartridge is adequate for self defense, they should willingly volunteer to be shot by that round. If they will not volunteer to be shot by that round then they are lying to themselves.

 

[SSGSAD]

If any person willingly states that they don't think a certain cartridge is adequate for self defense, they should willingly volunteer to be shot by that round. If they will not volunteer to be shot by that round then they are lying to themselves.

I agree, with this .... so the 18 people, that voted no, need to wear a "bullet proof" vest, and let the 300 some odd people shoot at them, till they change their mind ..... (purple implied ) .....

 

[ckcollins2003]

I agree, with this .... so the 18 people, that voted no, need to wear a "bullet proof" vest, and let the 300 some odd people shoot at them, till they change their mind ..... (purple implied ) .....

No purple needed. Just take the vest away. Seriously though, I wouldn't even give them a vest. If they really don't believe a 9mm will hurt someone then they shouldn't be worried. Now I'm not saying 300+ people should shoot them to prove it, but they should at least be willing to take 1 to the chest.

So which one of you is first?

 

[Trooper]

I just remember that Illinois State Trooper who dumped over 45 rounds of 9mm into some idiot on PCP (Angel Dust). The guy did not stop until he bled out. Departments quickly moved to other calibers with a lot of research going on which producted the .40 S&W (10mm short).

Remember that the police across the nation at that time where just making the move from revolvers to semi autos. Many departments had been issuing revolvers in .357 mag, especially to state troopers. Thus they had been used to rounds that made a good wound cavity.

Yes the 9mm can kill. But the .40 and .45 just make a bigger "hole in Juan".

Frankly I prefer a shotgun (12ga) at home and a rifle when in the open (like to keep my opposition at least 100 meters away).

 

[Robjps]

I just remember that Illinois State Trooper who dumped over 45 rounds of 9mm into some idiot on PCP (Angel Dust). The guy did not stop until he bled out. Departments quickly moved to other calibers with a lot of research going on which producted the .40 S&W (10mm short).

Remember that the police across the nation at that time where just making the move from revolvers to semi autos. Many departments had been issuing revolvers in .357 mag, especially to state troopers. Thus they had been used to rounds that made a good wound cavity.

Yes the 9mm can kill. But the .40 and .45 just make a bigger "hole in Juan".

Frankly I prefer a shotgun (12ga) at home and a rifle when in the open (like to keep my opposition at least 100 meters away).

I would love to see the news article of someone being shot 45 times and taking forever to be incapacitated.

And where do you get 9mm doesn't make a "good" wound cavity. Quality defensive ammo meeting FBI standards more or less preforms the same.

 

[Trooper]

I would love to see the news article of someone being shot 45 times and taking forever to be incapacitated.

And where do you get 9mm doesn't make a "good" wound cavity. Quality defensive ammo meeting FBI standards more or less preforms the same.

One of the folks who posts here has a signature that states that while a 9mm might fail to expand, a .45 can not shrink.

A 9mm is good. But if you can hit a man in the eye with a .45 then use a .22 as it will do as much damage. That is the reason that the .22 is used as a close range assassination weapon.

The situation that I described happened in the 1980s I believe. It was in all of the gun mags. After incident there was a huge research for a better round resulting in the .40 S&W. The goal was to find a semi auto round that could give the same wound cavity as a .357 mag.

 

[Double T]

40 came from a lighter hitting 10mm load so they could decrease OAL and get it to work in medium sized handguns for LEO use, which is why the 40 is called a small 10.

I do believe this is where ballistic gelatin, and the FBI standard came from though.

 

[ckcollins2003]

One of the folks who posts here has a signature that states that while a 9mm might fail to expand, a .45 can not shrink.

A 9mm is good. But if you can hit a man in the eye with a .45 then use a .22 as it will do as much damage. That is the reason that the .22 is used as a close range assassination weapon.

The situation that I described happened in the 1980s I believe. It was in all of the gun mags. After incident there was a huge research for a better round resulting in the .40 S&W. The goal was to find a semi auto round that could give the same wound cavity as a .357 mag.

Nobody denies that there are better options. However, I cannot find any news article where a man was shot 45 times and lived. I have seen an article on a man that was shot many times by a LEO (don't remember where or how many) using a .40 and the guy didn't stop. The LEO was shot in the head with birdshot when the guy tried to shoot his wife. The angry husband wasn't on any drugs, just pure adrenaline.

Either way, this was the .40. Shot placement is key to everything. I highly doubt the man was actually hit 45 times by a 9mm, but if he was, that police officer was not shooting him in the chest or anywhere that could have caused instant death, which he should have been after the first 3 shots IMO.

The simple question is if a 9mm is adequate for self defense. Not, "which is better, the 9mm or the 10mm?". God knows we've all seen the debates on calibers, yet not a single person will volunteer to be shot by the caliber they stomp on.

I'll be the first to admit that I'd much rather carry a .45. Simply because it's bigger and that makes me feel better. But many people have been killed with a 9mm, so I know it's adequate and I'd never tell people otherwise. FWIW, I carry a .40 because that's the gun I could afford at the time. If it were a .22, I'd still carry it.