Why do I keep hearing people say 9mm is not adequate for home/self defense?

[rugertoter]

No matter where you go you will find people saying the 9mm is not good enough to take an attacker out. Whatever.

 

[Rocket]

It is similar to the Black powder argument. The answer is the same. Thousands of dead people can not be wrong. Placement is key of course. Technology is great. But if you threaten my family and all I have is a pencil, I will jam it up your nose or die trying. There are always exceptions, If you want to be absolutely sure your caliber of choice is appropriate, Carry a 40 mm grenade launcher. I am pretty sure no one will walk away from that one to the chest. Practice what you carry and if you are not confident get something else. I for one hope to never be shot with anything. BB's hurt enough. Yes 9mm is enough with good ammo.

 

[Ericpwp]

To get back to the original post... It is the internet spying on you. Do you think granny (who only looks at pictures of cats all day) has

• A 9mm is False Protection Discover What Survivalist Masters & The Army Don't Want You To Know Close Combat Training | Self Defense | Martial Arts Training | Captain Chris

on every web page she visits?

Only if YOU did a firearms related search on her computer.


9mm is not adequate because CloseCombatTraning.com would not make any money if it was, and they spent a lot of money to make you believe that it isn't.

 

[Trooper]

Nobody denies that there are better options. However, I cannot find any news article where a man was shot 45 times and lived. I have seen an article on a man that was shot many times by a LEO (don't remember where or how many) using a .40 and the guy didn't stop. The LEO was shot in the head with birdshot when the guy tried to shoot his wife. The angry husband wasn't on any drugs, just pure adrenaline.

Either way, this was the .40. Shot placement is key to everything. I highly doubt the man was actually hit 45 times by a 9mm, but if he was, that police officer was not shooting him in the chest or anywhere that could have caused instant death, which he should have been after the first 3 shots IMO.

The simple question is if a 9mm is adequate for self defense. Not, "which is better, the 9mm or the 10mm?". God knows we've all seen the debates on calibers, yet not a single person will volunteer to be shot by the caliber they stomp on.

I'll be the first to admit that I'd much rather carry a .45. Simply because it's bigger and that makes me feel better. But many people have been killed with a 9mm, so I know it's adequate and I'd never tell people otherwise. FWIW, I carry a .40 because that's the gun I could afford at the time. If it were a .22, I'd still carry it.

It was an Illinois State Trooper who had the honor of making one of the first big shootings with a 9mm in the early '80s. He dumped three magazines (15 rounds each) into this perp on PCP. If you know anything about those on Angel Dust (think Roddy King), you know that they just do not feel pain. Thus you have to hit a critical spot. The bigger wound cavity, the more likely to hit something critical.

This incident was the prime reason that the police moved to .40 and the .45ACP. In fact the .40 S&W came out of the research started due to this incident.

I am surprised that others here do not remember the incident. It was in all of the gun mags.

 

[sharkey]

It was an Illinois State Trooper who had the honor of making one of the first big shootings with a 9mm in the early '80s. He dumped three magazines (15 rounds each) into this perp on PCP. If you know anything about those on Angel Dust (think Roddy King), you know that they just do not feel pain. Thus you have to hit a critical spot. The bigger wound cavity, the more likely to hit something critical.

This incident was the prime reason that the police moved to .40 and the .45ACP. In fact the .40 S&W came out of the research started due to this incident.

I am surprised that others here do not remember the incident. It was in all of the gun mags.

A link would help jog my memory. The shootout that jumps to my mind when the 9mm/.38 stopping power subject is the one in Miami: 1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Trooper]

A link would help jog my memory. The shootout that jumps to my mind when the 9mm/.38 stopping power subject is the one in Miami: 1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did a Google search, for my own curiousity. Here, on another forum in 2011 this was posted:

Since you provide no citation for your story, I don’t necessarily believe it. Even if it were true, it really provides little useful information. Let me cite a verifiable story (The Gun digest Book of 9mm Handguns, D. A. Grennell & W. Clapp, DBI Books, 1984, p. 75-76):

“The Illinois State Police was one of the first large groups to adopt the 9mm Para cartridge as their service load. I’ve heard accounts and seen rather disquieting color photos of a—the customary term—suspect who engaged their attention on night in the Illinois City of La Salle. The suspect was supercharged on PCP aka Angel Dust and thus more or less a latterday counterpart of the Norse berserker…the suspect…was armed with one of this country’s ancient and manifestly obsolescent M1911 Colt auto pistols. He soaked up and was hardly inconvenienced at all by the twenty-odd hits with 9mm Para from Model 39 pistols issued to the ISP at that time. Other troopers came upon the scene and strafed him with police shotguns carrying charges of 00 buckshot. All the while, the Angel Dust sustained the suspect and, leaking from a great many punctures, he was blithely reloading the magazine of his Colt when a really enterprising State Trooper strode in close and made a butt-smash to the skull with his emptied police shotgun: end of incident.”

So, based on this single, true, anecdote one may conclude that shotgun butts have more stopping power than 12 gauge 00-buck shot and twenty something 9mm Para shots, at least on individuals on PCP. It would seem that we should be paying more attention to shotgun butts, then?

One may also conjecture (quite soundly) that had the officers been shooting 45 ACP, or 357 Mag, or even 44 Mag that things would have not been different, or any other low-powered cartridge for that matter. One may also wonder that if the "suspect" was carrying a hi-capicty 9mm he would have done far more damage, too. It seems that reloading his low-capacity 1911 magazine was his undoing.

Had the Troopers had a single M1917 “American Enfield” or Springfield let alone a M1 or M14, or even a humble 91/30, this “suspect” would have be dispatched with ease. 7.62x51/7.62x54R/.30’06 class (not 5.56x45/7.63x39) rifles are the only personal weapons with enough power (really, more than enough power) and accuracy to reliably stop people at range, but they are all too large/heavy to carry about, so they are not going to be available when you need them. The same goes for most pistols in my opinion. They are too large to conceal adequately, and this would certainly include the Colt 1911 and most other “popular pistols.” We are seeing today a new breed (Ruger LC9, Kimber Solo) of concealable 9mm pistols for a reason: they are carry-able, the first requirement, and they have adequate power courtesy of 9mm Para (opposed to 380 Auto and company). The .357 Snubbie also does this job, but with greater weight and bulk, less firepower, shorter sighing radius (and poorer accuracy), slower follow-up and reloading, and approximately equivalent ballistics.

Let’s compare:

My H&K P7-PSP with my 147 grain, 1200 FPS handload with Hornady XTPs.

My wife’s S&W M649 (2.5 inch) with 140 grain 1250 FPS handload with Hornady XTPs.

The ballistics are essentially the same. The M649 could be pushed harder than that I am sure, but it is already pretty uncontrollable in its present form, and frankly, I don’t want to push that thin-walled, small framed revolver any harder.

Making “carry ammo”

This is not the incident that I was referring to but still illustrates the point. And do not get me wrong, I like the 9mm. It is easy to use, great for a quick second shot. While it may not give one shot, one kill, it will hurt them enough for me to get out of the area. Thus very good as a street gun as long as I am not backed into a corner.

 

[Skip]

It doesn't matter what caliber you MISS with! Could be a 50cal for that matter.
Shot placement right and a 22LR will do the job.

Sufficient velocity with a heavy enough bullet placed in the right spot, good to go.

A friend of mine puts it like this: "Shot placement is King, adequate penatration is Queen, every think else is Angels dancing on the heads of pins."

FWIW

 

[peberly400]

9mm has been killing people for years. Anyone who says it wont or is not as effective is just blowing steam.

The only absolute way to make sure your bullet is doing its job is shot placement. Shot placement is always going to be the biggest thing with any bullet ever. I would much rather be shot in the big toe by a .45 than in the head with a .22

For a concealment gun, I actually prefer a big ol .45. At home, your more likely to not be as aware of your situation. Which is another key reason to have a shotgun, or alot of ammo on hand. 9mm is usually a pretty hi-cap gun

 

[goinggreyfast]

Location, location, location... It's not just a marketing concept.

 

[Robjps]

So, based on this single, true, anecdote one may conclude that shotgun butts have more stopping power than 12 gauge 00-buck shot and twenty something 9mm Para shots, at least on individuals on PCP. It would seem that we should be paying more attention to shotgun butts, then?

One may also conjecture (quite soundly) that had the officers been shooting 45 ACP, or 357 Mag, or even 44 Mag that things would have not been different, or any other low-powered cartridge for that matter. One may also wonder that if the "suspect" was carrying a hi-capicty 9mm he would have done far more damage, too. It seems that reloading his low-capacity 1911 magazine was his undoing.

That story proved we should all sell our guns and use baseball bats.

 

[longbarrel]

This.
a .357 Magnum round into your wall 3 feet away from your target wont do anything.

If it's at night time you can probably follow the poop trail.

 

[Bennettjh]

I voted yes. I cant imagine it not being sufficient. I carry a sr9 and its pretty potent

 

[Fixer]

I agree. I would be comfortable carrying anything from 9mm to 50 AE as long as I can put rounds on target with that gun!

 

[Backyardace]

While I use a 357 for home defense, I think a 9mm could do the job.

 

[INyooper]

Yes, 9mm is adequate.

No, I don't want to get shot even by a pea shooter that, while not nearly as painful as an adequate firearm round, would be nearly every bit as annoying as the repetitive nature of such a suggestion. Sort of like when your neighbor kid tells you one of his jokes; the first time it might be funny, but when he tells you the same joke a dozen times ...not so much.

As well, a miss by any firearm is as good as a miss with any other firearm ...and if anyone is three feet off target, I'd suspect an incredible (and obviously insufficient) lack of training. A hit with some calibers is adequate, a hit with other calibers is that much more adequate (perhaps not unlike "everyone is equal, and some are more equal than others," I'm sure ).

While I do believe that the 9mm is entirely adequate (and I've used the round as an EDC in the past), I'm currently using another caliber at the present time. Still, I wouldn't feel under-gunned were I required to return to the 9mm.