Will it ever end? Gary PD Officer Killed

[IndyDave1776]

I am looking for solutions. You are throwing rocks.

Given Horn's free market libertarian approach to most everything, perhaps he would go along with sending the police to go drink coffee and munch on doughnuts while the rest of us liquidate persons who need it. How can you get more free market than that?

 

[churchmouse]

Given Horn's free market libertarian approach to most everything, perhaps he would go along with sending the police to go drink coffee and munch on doughnuts while the rest of us liquidate persons who need it. How can you get more free market than that?

I would take no issue if he had an idea to offer. Targeting me is not the answer. Yes, I am a bit of a caveman but most folks seem to like me.....

 

[Crbn79]

So where are these free tune ups and when can I get.my truck in?

 

[IndyDave1776]

I would take no issue if he had an idea to offer. Targeting me is not the answer. Yes, I am a bit of a caveman but most folks seem to like me.....

What is there not to like?

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

I have to agree with CM. The only thing these punks understand is force. I will not say that being beaten to a pulp in the street or alley is right, but sometimes a good thump can do a lot of good. Respect is non-existant with these thugs, and they might understand a thump or two. If you want to hold their hand and tell them they're the victim, you can do that. Don't come crying to me when that poor "victim" breaks into your house, or car-jacks you.

I'm going to say something that probably will offend some people. Everyone whines and cries about poor Rodney King, did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe he had it coming. What happened before the video started rolling? I don't know, and I really don't care. Frankly if the police tell you to lay on the ground and put your hands behind your back, do it or suffer the consequences.

 

[KoopaKGB]

That used to be an accepted activity in the old days.

Did we have more than 100 murders a year back then?

No. The drug and rap culture was not running amok.
People valued life a lot more.
People had manners.
People had morals.
People had respect. Real respect....earned respect not the crap we have today.
There was honor in a mans hand shake.
At least for the most part.

Seems like a better time

To those that long for "a better time." Consider this...in 1930 a total of 297 law enforcement officers were killed, in 2011 is the total was 72, that would seem to contradict "the good ole days" The US population was about 122million persons back then compared to 318 million now. That's ALOT more death per capita!

Everything "seems like a better time" when thinking back how things were when we were younger. Its natural to long for nostalgia and the memory will paint a rosier picture then what really was. I cant say I've lived back then, but from pictures, and movies it would seem that police were fairly thuggish themselves. If they had a suspect, that suspect would usually talk. The suspect had little in the way of Miranda rights. We see this in the way other police agencies behave around the world currently most recently Brazil in their treatment of the poor. They routinely beat the crap out of suspects. I imagine the US police force of old wasn't too far off from this early police work. Heck that was considered good policing, it closed cases, there were no appeals or retrials.

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Law Enforcement Facts

 

[KoopaKGB]

I'm going to say something that probably will offend some people. Everyone whines and cries about poor Rodney King, did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe he had it coming. What happened before the video started rolling? I don't know, and I really don't care. Frankly if the police tell you to lay on the ground and put your hands behind your back, do it or suffer the consequences.

The guy was drunk off his a** trying to outrun the police. You're going to watch that video and say that's acceptable use of force to you?

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

The guy was drunk off his a** trying to outrun the police. You're going to watch that video and say that's acceptable use of force to you?

I guess that is part of my point. Can you tell that he is drunk from the video? I can't. I see a man resisting arrest.

 

[2A_Tom]

This thread is totally ridiculous.

Your kid, your niece or you are stopped because because you/they your/their vehicle fits the description for a bolo for a heinous crime. The receive the the standard beat down. The are thrown into an interrogation room with three of John Burge's officers. Twenty-three hours later they emerge with a signed confession. Your lawyer tries to get it thrown out but fails.

You serve eighteen and a half years of your sentence, when they catch the actual perpetrator. In the process of raping, murdering or immolating their latest victim.

You are free. Your wife? Your kids?

Oh, that could never happen!

Let go back to the old days before all this civil rights crap started. While we are at it let's take all the guns from those untrustworthy civilians.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

The guy was drunk off his a** trying to outrun the police. You're going to watch that video and say that's acceptable use of force to you?

I don't care who you are, if I hit you, and you keep getting up. Then I haven't hit you hard enough! Just saying!

 

[KoopaKGB]

I guess that is part of my point. Can you tell that he is drunk from the video? I can't. I see a man resisting arrest.

I don't care who you are, if I hit you, and you keep getting up. Then I haven't hit you hard enough! Just saying!

I suppose this was before compliance techniques were taught commonplace. But you're right, he kept trying to get up.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Given Horn's free market libertarian approach to most everything, perhaps he would go along with sending the police to go drink coffee and munch on doughnuts while the rest of us liquidate persons who need it. How can you get more free market than that?

I'm in for doughnuts.

...and I'm a lousy cop. I thought "tuning someone up" came from tuning a piano. You have to hit the keys to see if the sound is right now. It makes sense in my head. But, yeah, the car thing makes a lot more sense. I'm the same guy who was a cop for about 4 years before I found out running a still was illegal, so...yeah, there you go. We all have gaps in our knowledge.

Oh, last thing. Sometimes use of a small amount of force early stops the necessity of using more force later. In a hypothetical designed to be the most dramatic example, someone is drawing a gun and you punch them in the face breaking their nose. The punch was a violent act, no doubt. However it saved you from having to shoot the guy 2 seconds later. When people, cops or not, are nitpicked, thrown on a 24 hour news loop, and have their actions picked apart by journalists, the general public, and attorneys, that changes how quickly you are willing to act. It changes what your threshold is, if you'll admit it or not, and that hesitancy to act when the camera wouldn't show why you are acting can sometimes mean that the punch that could have prevented the shooting is never thrown. If you think this doesn't affect you, try to recall what your mindset was during the Zimmerman trials, and honestly say that it wouldn't enter your thought process if you were accosted by a young black male in a hoody. Maybe you would change your response, maybe you wouldn't, but its tough to say you wouldn't hesitate that nth of a second...

 

[actaeon277]

I'm in for doughnuts.

...and I'm a lousy cop. I thought "tuning someone up" came from tuning a piano. You have to hit the keys to see if the sound is right now. It makes sense in my head. But, yeah, the car thing makes a lot more sense. I'm the same guy who was a cop for about 4 years before I found out running a still was illegal, so...yeah, there you go. We all have gaps in our knowledge.

Never watched "Dukes of Hazzard"?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Never watched "Dukes of Hazzard"?

...well, yeah, but I didn't take legal advice from them. Police chases don't stop at the county line, and you can get a warrant for folks if they get away...

 

[actaeon277]

...well, yeah, but I didn't take legal advice from them. Police chases don't stop at the county line, and you can get a warrant for folks if they get away...

And you never put up a stop sign in the middle of no where, behind a bush?
How are you ever going to live up to sheriff Roscoe P Coltrain?

 

[armedindy]

unfortunately these things only fuel the anti-gun agenda....

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Just read through this entire thread. Maybe I'm weird, but:
1) I respect the guys in blue and what they are trying to do. Granted, there are abuses of power and those need to be weeded out and stopped.
2) I for one, have zero problem with providing the cops with what they need to do the job
3) Problem is, far too many times, the tendency is to go way overboard and build out what is wanted as opposed to what is needed. The terms "empire building" and "compensation" come to mind in some cases. I can show you an example of this right out here in podunk Washington county.
4) I have a lot less problem with an armored vehicle in police hands , if the police will get rid of no knock warrants/dynamic entry. Has it ever occurred to people that both Rambone and BBI might have a point?
5) One of the real culprits here is the Great Society. The welfare check has now, for generations, replaced the wage earning father in the home. This is NOT a matter of race. It IS a matter of degeneration of the family. When there is no strong father to stop the actions of wayward youth - the next "stopper" in place is far too often the police and the court system.

I fear that some of the above have short term solutions and some have long term solutions. This will require some common sense and discipline on all sides to make it happen. I fear that's not likely.

 

[churchmouse]

Just read through this entire thread. Maybe I'm weird, but:
1) I respect the guys in blue and what they are trying to do. Granted, there are abuses of power and those need to be weeded out and stopped.
2) I for one, have zero problem with providing the cops with what they need to do the job
3) Problem is, far too many times, the tendency is to go way overboard and build out what is wanted as opposed to what is needed. The terms "empire building" and "compensation" come to mind in some cases. I can show you an example of this right out here in podunk Washington county.
4) I have a lot less problem with an armored vehicle in police hands , if the police will get rid of no knock warrants/dynamic entry. Has it ever occurred to people that both Rambone and BBI might have a point?
5) One of the real culprits here is the Great Society. The welfare check has now, for generations, replaced the wage earning father in the home. This is NOT a matter of race. It IS a matter of degeneration of the family. When there is no strong father to stop the actions of wayward youth - the next "stopper" in place is far too often the police and the court system.

I fear that some of the above have short term solutions and some have long term solutions. This will require some common sense and discipline on all sides to make it happen. I fear that's not likely.

Very well said.

I have been singled out for bringing up the term "Tune Up" which may not have been the best way to reference my feelings on this issue.
I would like to see the PC world we are forced to live in taken back a few steps. Let LEO have some latitude as BBI's stated. Not dragging people out of cars during a traffic stop as anyone with a rational mind can see is wrong.

Something has to be done at the street level to slow these idiots (thugs) down. I for one will not consider them victims.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm in for doughnuts.

...and I'm a lousy cop. I thought "tuning someone up" came from tuning a piano. You have to hit the keys to see if the sound is right now. It makes sense in my head. But, yeah, the car thing makes a lot more sense. I'm the same guy who was a cop for about 4 years before I found out running a still was illegal, so...yeah, there you go. We all have gaps in our knowledge.

Oh, last thing. Sometimes use of a small amount of force early stops the necessity of using more force later. In a hypothetical designed to be the most dramatic example, someone is drawing a gun and you punch them in the face breaking their nose. The punch was a violent act, no doubt. However it saved you from having to shoot the guy 2 seconds later. When people, cops or not, are nitpicked, thrown on a 24 hour news loop, and have their actions picked apart by journalists, the general public, and attorneys, that changes how quickly you are willing to act. It changes what your threshold is, if you'll admit it or not, and that hesitancy to act when the camera wouldn't show why you are acting can sometimes mean that the punch that could have prevented the shooting is never thrown. If you think this doesn't affect you, try to recall what your mindset was during the Zimmerman trials, and honestly say that it wouldn't enter your thought process if you were accosted by a young black male in a hoody. Maybe you would change your response, maybe you wouldn't, but its tough to say you wouldn't hesitate that nth of a second...

Oh goodness! At the rate you are going, we are going to have to take up a collection to buy you your first JBT starter kit!

Seriously, I agree completely with what you said even if I had been sarcastic out of exasperation in my earlier post. I will go further to say that one of the tensions requiring a good balance is the fact that taking care of business isn't always pretty and room exists for that punch you mentioned without having excesses either way, be it going JBT on the undeserving or officers dying while shaking ink pens at BGs when they should be taking care of business out of fear of the 6:00 news.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And you never put up a stop sign in the middle of no where, behind a bush?
How are you ever going to live up to sheriff Roscoe P Coltrain?

...get a basset hound?

Oh goodness! At the rate you are going, we are going to have to take up a collection to buy you your first JBT starter kit!

I'm thinking tactical flip-flops. JFFDJT. Jack Flip-Flopped Desk Jockey Thug.