Wind Farms

[Classic]

Windfarm Blight

Interesting article on some older wind farms on Hawaii. Don't know if the site text info is verifiable but the pictures are legit, I was there and saw the remains on South Point. New wind farms going up right next door. Blight on one of the most beautiful places on earth.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_energy67.htm

 

[mike trible]

I attended some meetings with a group that opposed them in Huntington County. If I remember right, it is much more expensive for them to produce electricity than current methods, and once they become operational the local REMC or whoever the provider is must ( by federal law ) buy a certain amount of the electricity from them. Thus everybodys electric bill will increase.

 

[1775usmarine]

Just think of all that land that could be used to plant trees or grow food.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

My friend does and tells my he has problems sleeping since they were put in. Not because of any noise (that human ears can hear) but some kind of feeling he can't explain. Probably vibrations. He also explains all the hawk, eagle, owl, etc.... kills they swat out of the sky.

Interesting... no dead ducks?

 

[ryanbr]

In our county, set back from structures present or future is 1500 ft regardless of property ownership.
Local windmill service tech told me the employee safe distance form a wind tower about to pop is 2500 ft.
Shouldn’t these to numbers be the same

Yes they should be, part of the issue.


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[ryanbr]

East Central Wisconsin.

The sound is horrendous when it's windy.
The synchronized red flashing lights on top will drive you nutts.
No issues with vibrations although that might just be sound vibrations from when it's windy.
I am for when they are paying the lease but against as a general idea.

The turbines are sold to people as some sort of good thing for the environment but they aren't. They will never produce enough electricity to recover the costs of manufacture, construction and operation. To me that's a terrible use of valuable resources but because of government meddling in the market they steal from some people to give to those who make these eye sores.

I forget the exact cost estimates of each turbine but I think the number I remember was $3M per and then the lease and maintenance is added to that. And maintaining those things is a big job. One would think they just go up and that's that but not.

Then the other issue nobody wants to address is what happens after the useful life is over. The utility doesn't take them down. The land owner inherits them. What do I do with one of those towers, put a deer blind on top?

My theory is this. If the free market wouldn't build the things then it isn't a good idea. And the free market wouldn't build these things.

I agree. The ones they are wanting to build here in Cass County are 675’, tallest that will be built on land. Only built offshore so far this tall. Two of the three counties have shot them down. Now to get ours as well, don’t think it will happen as I’m afraid people on the take already.



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[ryanbr]

Wow, thats new info I hadnt heard. Wonder what the price tag for removal would be? Not cheap, thats for sure.

Yep. And Hydrogen. Hydrogen itself is incredibly clean, but it is a net negative energy source. (more energy used to create and store than it generates when used)

Its all to make people feel good. (and to line corporate pockets) They see themselves as saviors for not consuming fossil fuels by driving priuses and using solar, wind, and hydrogen, not realizing coal is used to generate electricity to make the generation tools, minerals are strip mined for the batteries, poisoning nearby aquifers, etc. These are the same Apple fanbois who happily wear Nike shoes and Levis jeans (all made overseas with child labor) while protesting child labor practices; they are absolutely clueless that they are just as guilty (if not more) than us dirty gas burners who are polluting the environment.

And its hilarious to watch plug in cars in Indy. Where the electricity generated by their "zero emission" vehicle is indirectly powered by "dirty" coal.

Decommissioning for an controlled explosion estimate is 20k to just drop it to the ground, 480k to disassemble to sell for scrap. These numbers are on 256 footers.


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[ryanbr]

I wonder if the county could pass an ordinance that requires the builder of these things maintain an escrow account (or whatever the appropriate legal/financial term is) that would cover the cost of demolition at the end of life?

A surety Bond is supposed to be part of it for decommissioning. These wind farms constantly change hands and the bonds appear to get dropped. Bonds do not automatically transfer.


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[ryanbr]

Neighboring land values plummet when these things are put in...enough so that they refer to the surrounding areas as Wind Ghettos.

Have evidence of this?


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[ryanbr]

Since you are running for Commissioner in Cass Co, what is your position on the wind farm debate? Excuse me if this has been answered in another thread but you are asking for the votes of citizens/TAX PAYERS/land owners in Cass Co.

Thanks.

Are you in Cass County? My position is I’m against them. It is not the turbines them-self, although it’s hard to be for something that will immediately stop with out government subsidies. The ordinance does not protect adjoining non participant landowners. They take away the use of your land that’s yours. They bring the safety zone onto your property. I for one don’t want to give up the use of my property, would you?


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[ryanbr]

Since you are running for Commissioner in Cass Co, what is your position on the wind farm debate? Excuse me if this has been answered in another thread but you are asking for the votes of citizens/TAX PAYERS/land owners in Cass Co.

Thanks.

I’m not on INGO asking for votes, looking and asking for first hand knowledge from people in the footprint of wind-farms. If there are Cass County members reading tho feel free to contact me. I’m not a politician and frankly not a place I ever thought I’d be. You can only complain for so long tho before you have to do something to try and make a change.


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[Dead Duck]

They could always be used as a sundial.

 

[mcapo]

I am a little late to the conversation but, as a commercial and residential appraiser, let me simply add that wind farms are a commercial/industrial type of use. They do have an impact upon the nature of an area like any other change in use.

Single site wind farms impact areas in a one way; dispersed wind farms (single turbines scattered over a wide geographic area) in another. Other factors come into play also like surrounding terrain, density and type of surrounding usages etc etc.

Rather that impacts the specific use, enjoyment or value in a neutral, positive or negative manner of a particular property is a very specific consideration.

 

[ryanbr]

I am a little late to the conversation but, as a commercial and residential appraiser, let me simply add that wind farms are a commercial/industrial type of use. They do have an impact upon the nature of an area like any other change in use.

Single site wind farms impact areas in a one way; dispersed wind farms (single turbines scattered over a wide geographic area) in another. Other factors come into play also like surrounding terrain, density and type of surrounding usages etc etc.

Rather that impacts the specific use, enjoyment or value in a neutral, positive or negative manner of a particular property is a very specific consideration.

So this proposed project will stretch clear across our county. Approximately 150 675 ft Turbines.


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[mcapo]

As has been pointed out, these are not static structures or uses (like a high tension power line). Turbines move, are highly visible, require regular access for maintenance and (unlike electrical towers) are not related to a regulated public utility (read: what the heck happens when they are out of use).

Dispersed wind farms have the most impact. You are creating little pockets of industrial usage with easements running all over the place.

Has the potential to impact future residential development. If you are going to spend half a million (or even $250k) on a house, do you want to build in an area that counts wind turbine as a view?

Take a look at Wells County, Indiana. They had a multi-year battle with rules, regulations and a wind farm company before finally bring it to an end. Allen County chased a single site project into Ohio (not really that simple but still...). Now why do you think they built it RIGHT on the State line? No voters on the west side? Who knows...just repeating what I read someplace. :-)

I am not saying the wind farms are "bad". What I am saying is that the arguments for and against seem to forget that it's not about wind turbines. It's a change in use from what is usually ag to a quasi-industrial land use adjacent to ag and residential usages.

 

[ryanbr]

As has been pointed out, these are not static structures or uses (like a high tension power line). Turbines move, are highly visible, require regular access for maintenance and (unlike electrical towers) are not related to a regulated public utility (read: what the heck happens when they are out of use).

Dispersed wind farms have the most impact. You are creating little pockets of industrial usage with easements running all over the place.

Has the potential to impact future residential development. If you are going to spend half a million (or even $250k) on a house, do you want to build in an area that counts wind turbine as a view?

Take a look at Wells County, Indiana. They had a multi-year battle with rules, regulations and a wind farm company before finally bring it to an end. Allen County chased a single site project into Ohio (not really that simple but still...). Now why do you think they built it RIGHT on the State line? No voters on the west side? Who knows...just repeating what I read someplace. :-)

I am not saying the wind farms are "bad". What I am saying is that the arguments for and against seem to forget that it's not about wind turbines. It's a change in use from what is usually ag to a quasi-industrial land use adjacent to ag and residential usages.

I definitely wouldn’t want want to build. We built a new home 3 years ago in Cass County. My house is not in the proposed footprint but if we would have known wouldn’t have built in Cass County.

Your right it is not about the turbines themselves but more about a change in lifestyles.

The wind industry really comes off as one huge Ponzi scheme in my mind.

I believe I heard there is another fight going to be starting up in Whitley county now. Fulton county shut them down, Miami County plan commission just voted to change their setbacks, now RES is trying to get into Pulaski and Jasper Counties, also another company in Jasper from what I hear.

My reason for this post was really to try and get someone with first hand knowledge that might talk. Most all of the contracts people sign with wind companies have gag orders wrote in keeping them from complaining “ I mean talking about” the turbines.


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[mcapo]

The people the sign the contracts are compensated. It's the people down the road....

I can tell that I have received first hand knowledge from nearby owners that couldn't care less about them and people that have moved because of the negative (perceived or real) effects.

 

[ryanbr]

The people the sign the contracts are compensated. It's the people down the road....

I can tell that I have received first hand knowledge from nearby owners that couldn't care less about them and people that have moved because of the negative (perceived or real) effects.

So do you have real data on what has happened to the residential property values of homes in the foot prints?


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[WanderingSol07]

I live about 10 miles south of the wind farms in Benton and White county. But have been through the farms numerous times. Even pulled off and sat a while out side of the car as close as I could legally get to one of the turbines. The loudest noise I could hear was a cow over a mile away. I could not hear any 'swishing' sound made by the blades, but I could hear a faint rattle as the blades went around. The wires on a high tension line make more noise humming and buzzing on a humid day.

They appear to use about 1/10 of an acre for the base and access roads.

I heard that the farms here sell all their electricity out east as it is cheaper the the power generation out east (New York).

If I remember the dimensions correctly, the tip of the blades are at 100' off the ground at the lowest point in the arc. How high do birds and bats fly over farm fields?

Would be nice to hear from a land owner that lives on the land these things are on.

 

[chemteach]

Not a big fan of wind generators. (pun intended). Most of the arguments posted focus on land use, land value, negative benefits of government subsidized projects, and some wildlife risk . One perspective I'd like to toss in is what is the downwind affect? Natural wind corridors exist to move heat from one location to another. It's a balancing act, too hot in one place and air stacks up. We get high pressure and it pushes its way toward a smaller stack of air or a low pressure area. We get wind. What happens when we place a boat-load of wind turbines in those corridors? I know we get turbulance, but I wonder if there are any long or even short term effects. Do I lose sleep over it? Nope, just wondering.