Wolves & Cougars

[nate1865]

Same rational used to wipe out the Native Americans, just substitute SAVAGES for wolves. Ignorance and fear are the driving force of many peoples rhetoric AND actions.

I didn't say that was my opinion.

I'd recommend reading a history book about the Indian conflicts that hasn't been written in the last few decades.

That doesn't mean settlers were always right. It also doesn't mean settlers were wrong to traverse land nobody claimed to own (Indians didn't believe in owning land), or defend land they had purchased from people intent on killing them for invading land they still perceived as theirs - or nobody's.

 

[snowman46919]

Drama much? Now the big bad wolf took your house? How far out can you stretch this?

I don't know what you think a farm does but it pays our bills, no livestock to sell leaves bills unpaid and foreclosure and tax seizure. It is not the wolf or the cougar doing that sure but loss of livestock or crop us not skin deep damage.. I suppose it will be my fault next because I didn't have 6 different ways to pay my bills.

 

[Hkindiana]

Fair enough but you are speaking for what the gubment and majority wanted. I think the mass genocide committed by the majority is one of the many black marks on our history. As far as wildlife goes, of our 100 or so acres we have several areas dedicated purely to the proliferation of natural wildlife. I have always said if I hit the lottery I will buy out all the property around us and return it to the woodlands it once was. But because of our property and the state forest that is close being a huge highway for the deer to travel between reservoirs and such we have always had problems with predators both 4 legged and the 2 legged trespassing kind. Being that historically we have had problems, it would seem extremely likely that it would happen again just because of the abundant food source plus the livestock. You wouldn't believe the animals that get drawn in from afterbirth and treat that stuff like gold.

I have dedicated 60 of my acres to native prairie land. I killed off all non-native plants and grasses, and then planted only grasses and flowers that were here when the white man first set foot in this country. It is amazing how well the wildlife is doing. I have quail, rabbits, woodcock, grouse, and more deer and turkeys than you can count. All of this with a large population of coyotes in the area. Everything seems to co- exist just fine. It's funny, I have always said the same thing about the lottery.

 

[6birds]

I have dedicated 60 of my acres to native prairie land. I killed off all non-native plants and grasses, and then planted only grasses and flowers that were here when the white man first set foot in this country. It is amazing how well the wildlife is doing. I have quail, rabbits, woodcock, grouse, and more deer and turkeys than you can count. All of this with a large population of coyotes in the area. Everything seems to co- exist just fine. It's funny, I have always said the same thing about the lottery.

You need to panic more, there's no way that will work out, nature doesn't work that way. The coyotes will take your house.

 

[snowman46919]

You need to panic more, there's no way that will work out, nature doesn't work that way. The coyotes will take your house.

You are more hard headed than I, I give up trying to express to you that there are a lot deeper implications here than just reintroducing them.

also coyotes eat mainly carrion unless there is an absence of other predators that go after larger prey.

 

[Ashkelon]

As a card carrying member of the Chickasaw Tribe I appreciate your concern for what happened to my ancestors but it is quite offensive to compare us to coyotes and wolves no matter what analogy is trying to be made.

My family and other Native American tribes are doing a fine job of wiping ourselves out without help from whitey. Between liquor drugs and poverty we will be gone soon enough.

By the way - who did you consult for planting all native fauna? I have some pasture areas that would be perfect for such a project.

Thanks

 

[Ashkelon]

Oh and as far as the previous post about Indians not believing that land could be owned. Sheesh - what malarkey. That's like saying people from Chicago have the same belief system as someone from Little Rock. Sweeping generalization that is horrifically inaccurate. Read a book.

Kind of like saying "Well, I have a black friend and I know how they think"....

 

[Hkindiana]

As a card carrying member of the Chickasaw Tribe I appreciate your concern for what happened to my ancestors but it is quite offensive to compare us to coyotes and wolves no matter what analogy is trying to be made.

My family and other Native American tribes are doing a fine job of wiping ourselves out without help from whitey. Between liquor drugs and poverty we will be gone soon enough.

By the way - who did you consult for planting all native fauna? I have some pasture areas that would be perfect for such a project.

Thanks

I was NOT comparing Native Americans to animals. I was saying that we treated them as such, both in our handling of the "Indian problem" and in our fear and ignorance. It was much simpler to use the practice of wiping out what we fear, rather than trying to understand it. I apologize if I offended you in any way. As for the native prairie land, the DNR has some great brochures, and a list of suppliers of native plants and grasses. It really turned out beautifully.

 

[yotewacker]

Here in Indiana when I was a kid, there was a bounty on coyotes and foxes. Local people completely wiped them out because of farms loosing so many animals. lot's of the deer population in southern states has been drastically reduced because of coyote's.

 

[Hkindiana]

Here in Indiana when I was a kid, there was a bounty on coyotes and foxes. Local people completely wiped them out because of farms loosing so many animals. lot's of the deer population in southern states has been drastically reduced because of coyote's.

We already have deer overpopulation. Can you image how we would be overrun with them if the coyotes didn't help to control the population? Remember, it was US that wiped out the deer in the first place. Then we used the excuse of "not enough deer" to blame the coyotes and then wipe THEM out.

 

[6birds]

If you don't understand it, kill it.

 

[Anonym]

I've witnessed a handful of coyotes working to separate a calf (living, probably a week old) from it's mother in daylight hours. My neighbors witnessed coyotes leading off and attacking domestic dogs on a couple of occasions, and mysteriously about the same time I lost 2 of my own. They are doing more than "scavaging" these days, and they aren't small/scrawny like they used to be.

There's no clear answer to this. I would love to see wolves back in their native lands. I think they are beautiful and intelligent animals, but they have the potential to be very dangerous and devestating to "our way of life". The truth of the matter is this. We can't re-introduce them to their native lands because their native lands no longer exist. We have invaded them, changed them, and mostly destroyed these lands. It will be impossible to bring the wolf back and not expect to be confronted with them because we moved into their house! We've already disrupted the balance of nature, and it's been trying to adjust for years. All we need to do is screw things up again.

 

[6birds]

IWe can't re-introduce them to their native lands because their native lands no longer exist.

I disagree. There have been successful reintroductions of not only wolves, but black bears, grizzly bears, elk, moose, deer, etc.

Adjustments will have to be made. But a broad brush statement "we can't do that" is inaccurate.

 

[snowman46919]

I disagree. There have been successful reintroductions of not only wolves, but black bears, grizzly bears, elk, moose, deer, etc.

Adjustments will have to be made. But a broad brush statement "we can't do that" is inaccurate.

So if the adjustment to be made was to reintroduce them in fishers lets say in your backyard you would be okay with that?

 

[6birds]

Yeah. I have fox, deer, beavers, raccoons, coyotes and hawks here now, why not wolves. I might learn something.

They're going to move north to destroy your house soon anyways, but I'll have them until they head your way.

 

[snowman46919]

Yeah. I have fox, deer, beavers, raccoons, coyotes and hawks here now, why not wolves. I might learn something.

They're going to move north to destroy your house soon anyways, but I'll have them until they head your way.

What part are you skipping over I never said they would destroy my home but what pays for it. Apparently your being so overzealous with what I said to make it look ridiculous, what I am trying to point out is that those adjustments will people that may suffer from the government interfering once again with the natural course of things. There are responsible people out there that do their best to not upset nature more than it already has been. You apparently want to come in and muck up the water that has already settled as long as it doesn't affect you directly. That is also another problem in my eyes people don't seem to care who is getting hurt or might get hurt as long as it isn't them. A cougar or a pack of wolves could easily devastate our herd if our property is still being poached by irresponsible little ****s from the local high school. But I suppose that is my fault too because what, I should just shoot on site instead of reporting the trespass that the dnr game warden and leos have no time for.

 

[Mike H]

A wolf and a mtn. lion are on my bucket list. I like hunting large predators.
I've been inside of 15 yards to a wolf in Manitoba Canada. They are huge. Needless to say I was drooling. I was on a spring black bear bowhunt and the anti's stopped spring wolf hunting. They were everywhere.

 

[6birds]

We have wolves and black bear on the proprty in WI, really beautiful animals. After watching them in the wild for the past 25 years, the "I'm scared it's going to eat all my live stock" stories are getting pretty funny.

I'm headed back to Canada next year for white tails, hope to get a wolf tag while I'm up there.

 

[Mr.Strato]

"I've witnessed a handful of coyotes working to separate a calf (living, probably a week old) from it's mother in daylight hours"

I've witnessed this too! Coyotes around cattle and that's what you get.
We have a gentleman that we farm with, and he's very savvy on coyotes.
He lives in Decatur County and he kills about 60 a year!
He runs alot of cattle, and dogs are impracticle because his cattle are spread all over.

As for the cougar deal, There was/is a documented case of a cougar killing a cow in Oct, '10 about 3miles East of Franklin, In. Story made the WTHR news...
It's unclear as to where the cougar came from...there IS a guy in that general area that has/had some caged lions, tigers, and yes, bears.
His animal population was up around 30! DNR came in and made him get rid of most...That's been a couple years ago. Could he have let one loose?
Hey, short line is- you priced beef recently? That cow was valued at 1200 Bucks!

I look at other areas that have these critters- not just Yellowstone...
I went to Bike Week in Daytona 2yrs ago, and they were warning people(especially campers in Tomoka SP) that a young male cougar had left his pack and was setting up territory in the area.Lemme tell ya-NOBODY was thrilled about it...
Cougars need to kill a deer sized animal every 3-4 days, an Elk every 7-8;Got that info from a guy that just came back from a successful cougar hunt in Co.

 

[Hkindiana]

"what I am trying to point out is that those adjustments will people that may suffer from the government interfering once again with the natural course of things. There are responsible people out there that do their best to not upset nature more than it already has been. You apparently want to come in and muck up the water that has already settled as long as it doesn't affect you directy"

Let's see, so you think the "natural course of things" is no wolves or cougars, and "mucking up water that has already been settled" means that since they were already exterminated that is the wat it should stay?