No Gun at Church Anymore

[Captain Bligh]

... I can always go back to my original church...

Are you sure? You might want to check with that church first.

I've gone to a lot of churches in my life and have carried there and known others that carried there. I've never seen open carry in church, even from LEOs. I would also consider it an unnecessary distraction. I'd cover it up and go on about my business. YMMV.

 

[mike8170]

I think the op has made a good decision here. I have only been attending civilian services for about 2 years myself, and it is a small town and a small congregation. I myself am always armed, and there was only one person that has questioned me carrying a handgun during services, and it was quickly set to rest by her husband. I OC or CC each Sunday, depending on weather and the way I am dressed, and no one bats an eye. It could be half the congregation are members of the same VFW post makes us like minded individuals.

There is always a congregation that will allow each individual views and practices, it just has to be found.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I have not read every post, however I did see where someone suggested to the OP that he detail to the pastor what his plan was for dealing with various situations.

What might have been said that I did not see was asking the pastor how HE plans to deal with those same situations in the absence of an armed "good guy".

Ask him if he's ever heard the name "Jeanne Assam". When he says "No...?" you might relate to him the story of the two churches in Colorado a few years ago. One night, a killer showed up at one, killing several people. The next day (I think; I'm working from memory here) a killer showed up in Colorado Springs. Several people in the church were armed due to being on the (titular) "security detail". The killer got two in the parking lot. One of the "guards" drew and froze; he found he could not shoot another person. Then Jeanne Assam, another parishoner, drew her sidearm and wounded the killer, who then took his own life with his shotgun.

The killer ended two innocent lives that day.The church had over 1000 worshippers attending, as was normal. The killer had hundreds of rounds of ammunition. He had no intention of stopping at only two, but the two he killed had no means on hand to defend themselves; they had to rely on luck and the hope and prayer that someone would save them. Once the killer got within range of good people who were armed, he was stopped, although too late for them. What a pity neither of them was able to stop him. Had they been, we might know their names instead of hers, and the killer would have only been an "attempted murderer", a mere footnote.

Now ask your pastor how he would deal with that person.... pray for him? He might save the killer's soul, but that's all that will be saved that day.

Good luck to you.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Mr.Strato]

It seems you handled the situation in a very mature and conceintious manner. I've heard that when God closes a door he opens a better one.
I would assume new and exciting opportunities await your faith journey!

 

[ProLibertate]

You might also remind your pastor that in the book of Luke, Jesus instructs his disciples to arm themselves.

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

He might also be interested to read the 82nd Psalm:
Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

Ezekiel might even say it is your duty to watch over others:
Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

I dunno.... You tell him whatever you want.
I'm an atheist, but I believe that the Bible has a lot of good lessons in it, and I know one thing is for damn sure:
No man on this Earth is going to tell me where I can and cannot defend my own life.



For what it's worth, there is a time and place for everything. Perhaps a church service is neither the time nor the place for open carry, but it's your call.

​

 

[JoshuaW]

Im sure it has been said, but compromise. Talk to your pastor about your concerns. Offer to conceal or carry it off body (in a bag). I would not have OCd in church, just because it is a place that some people consider "special" where firearms dont belong, like schools. Obviously we know this thinking is flawed.

Dont stress your faith, or damage the relationship with your pastor or anyone else at the church. A compromise is the best situation. The next situation I wold suggest is "conceding" and switching to a deep cover situation. Carry a money clip in your front pocket, and something like an LCP or P3AT in a rear pocket wallet holster.

 

[INMIline]

Tell him you safely carry your firearm to church to protect the entire church if ever the need arised. Tell him you would be the first to incounter a situation needing armed protection and would put your self in the way of the entire church. Look at the world we live in today, rallys, terrorism, the list goes on. These are crazy times. The more unemployment runs out the more people will rob for money.

 

[henktermaat]

The choice to switch churches was the best one. You don't want to lie, and you don't want to go unarmed.

Super post by ProLibertate

 

[nate1865]

Talk to your deacons or elders about it. Don't let the pastor isolate your communications and (even unintentionally) spin what you say to him to the real decision makers. Love him well by holding him accountable kindly.

There is no sin in having and carrying a weapon, and you aren't sinning by doing so any more than a policeman is. Tell your church leaders the police (by their background check) and the FBI (who did part of it) have already cleared you to carry and purchase a weapon.

I think it would be reasonable for them to ask you to carry it concealed if it is causing a disruption in the meetings.

Submit to them and be kind, but in the end, you may have to choose what is more spiritually beneficial to you - being able to carry a gun in church or the ministry itself.

 

[Mr. Habib]

I think you made the right choice. Any church that disregards your physical safety and would choose to ostracize you over a political ideology, has failed their mission IMO.

 

[crawfish]

I BRING MY GUN TO WHERE I PRAY

IN MY LIFE EVRY DAY MY WIFE HAD HER STEPFATHER SHOT AND KILLED IN CHURCH WHEN A CHURCH MEMBER CAME IN AND SHOT 9 PEOPLE AND RICHARD WAS ONE WHO DIED (R.I.P.) THIS HAPPENED A FEW YEARS AGO IN ANOTHER STATE BUT EVIL IS OUT THERE WAITING AND WATCHING GOOD LUCK TO ALL

 

[rambone]

Show him some stories like these...

Woman saves church from active shooter

1 Dead, 2 Injured After Shooting During Sunday Service at New Jersey Church

 

[Mkidwe01]

I personally feel that more people at churches should carry at church. i carry every sunday and I know several others who do as well. Churchs usually have a large amount of money that comes in on sundays and I have heard of several churches robbed during offering time. I also know that churches are suppose to be welcoming places that are open to everyone which is a good thing, but also means that a lot of weird people walk in the door. I have seen several issues and i know I feel safer and my family does as well when I am armed.

 

[Hoosierdood]

You made the right decision to just leave. You don't want to go to the deacon board, or other members and cause a ruckus on your way out. That would do nothing but cause problems in the church. There are many churches out there, and if you have a problem with the one you are at, you are free to find one that is a better "fit". It's unfortunate that the pastor feels that way, but there are alot of people who don't see the need for a firearm. Even in my own church, there are those who are anti-gun. If they only knew that their pastor (i.e. - me) was carrying a gun while he was preaching, they would have a fit.

BTW, I know a good Baptist church in Lapaz if you are looking.

 

[Vanguard.45]

Worth two thousand words

 

[ddenny5]

I would have a talk with your pastor and explain why you carry. I would ask to conceal carry. If he says no; I would tell him that I will start considering a new church. I would word so that it is not a threat but a separation that both parties can be at peace with. I would at that time ask him to find someone you can train to do your job at the church. If you do leave; leave on good terms.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

The OP resolved his issue his own way, and I wish him the best. Before I made a decision about whether to carry in church, I decided to find out from my pastor what his opinions were on the matter in general. It turns out he's a gun owner himself and, while he doesn't usually carry, he had no objections. He let me know that he knows a number of people probably do conceal carry in church and he had no objections if I chose to do so as well. I know that some members of the congregation would not feel comfortable about it, so out of respect for them and not wanting to distract them from worship, I always make sure it is concealed. I recently decided to carry in my purse when entering the church rather than on my person, as I do just about everywhere else. Hugs can be awkward when you are trying for complete concealment

If the sermon ever goes on for a little too long, I can always amuse myself looking around wondering where the other firearms are

 

[sonovasailor]

David was a man after God's own heart. But even he was armed with 5 small stones and a sling when he faced Goliath.

 

[mcolford]

Wow.... Just read through all of this.

OP - Thats def a tough decision. I finally found a church that I am comfortable in, as I am not one to enjoy dressing up, and the sunday service is casual (some dress up, some dont, they take you the way you are). I have not carried to church yet (only had my LTCH for a few weeks now, and due to work, havent been to service since I got my LTCH).

My preacher is a great guy, also my next door neighbor, and we have went shooting together. I have never addressed this issue to him or the board, but it may e something I bring up to him. We live in a rural farm community, and I am quite sure many members are armed.

I hope you find a new church soon that is more accepting of you, being the way you are!

-MColford

 

[Bendrx]

Luke 22:36 'Nuff said.