Hassled by Buffalo Wild Wings for OC at Dupont, Fort Wayne

[bassplayrguy]

There is a law against riverboat casinos but not ones on land like live.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I OC into the BWW in Speedway all the time, to do otherwise is illegal, in fact last time I was in there I counted 15 guys that obviously had guns on them and we had no problems. BWW has both company owned resturaunts and franchises, I'll still eat at the ones that don't display the no guns sign, but won't eat at ones that have the sign.

 

[Cru]

Just for the record, I'd never seen a "no guns" sign at a BWW, and we OC there after FNS all the time, and while some people think the service is bad, I think they've ok, and they've always been quite friendly to the group.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Uh, yes it is. It is corporate policy.

While it may be corporate policy, this particular restaurant and others mentioned may not be a corporate store, but a franchisee. Therefore corporate policy is not an issue.

Remember, just because it has a nationwide known name, it may not be a corporate owned store.

 

[IndyBeerman]

We have had this discussion on here scores of times, if not hundreds. It is not illegal to carry into an establishment with a no-guns-allowed sign posted. If you're caught, you will be asked to leave (which they could do anyway if they want). If you refuse to leave when asked, then you're trespassing, and THAT is what you could be charged with. You won't lose your license, you won't lose your guns. You'll possibly be fined for trespassing, and banned from the premises, but that's about it.

"No Trespassing" = Denial of Entry.
"No Admittance" = Denial of Entry.
"Mainjet is barred from the premises" = Denial of Entry.

"No Guns Allowed" = Conditional Admittance. They're letting you in and establishing conduct rules. They could have a sign that says "no spitting on the floor" and violating that rule does not suddenly make you a trespasser. It means you're violating their rule about spitting on the floor. Violating their conduct rule is not illegal, and since they let you in you're not trespassing (again, until they ask you to leave and you refuse).


If the sign was worded something like "all people carrying firearms are hereby denied entry into this establishment" you might have a point. But nobody words their signs like that. NOBODY. A sign stating "no guns allowed" is not the same thing.

It is specifically written into the law that you cannot carry at a K-12 school, the sterile area of an airport, a casino, a federal building, etc. It is NOT written into law that you can't carry BW3, or wherever there's a no-guns-allowed sign.

DING DING DING

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner, but just not BWW!

 

[sj kahr k40]

I just wonder how many of the tobacco companies melensdad buys from have no gun policies for there employees, how can he continue to do business with companies that restrict their workers rights to self defense?

 

[snowman46919]

I'm in for the open carry event just send me an invite

 

[grimor]

Nice job of not caving to stupid requests.

Question: what would be the legal issues of refusing to pay when asked to leave?

Leaving without paying, regardless if it was at the request of the manager would of been theft. If the cops got involved you would of either had to pay or possibly face the same charges as if you dined and dashed.

 

[SirRealism]

Leaving without paying, regardless if it was at the request of the manager would of been theft. If the cops got involved you would of either had to pay or possibly face the same charges as if you dined and dashed.

Even if they tell you to leave before you've finished your meal... based on an un-posted policy?

It seems to me that they would be the ones to break the verbal contact, not the OP.

 

[Cru]

Even if they tell you to leave before you've finished your meal?

Yes, I'm curious about this.

 

[SirRealism]

Slightly different scenario: What if you paid a $20 cover charge for an event, and were asked to leave 5 minutes in? Would you want your money back?

 

[IndyBeerman]

Nice job of not caving to stupid requests.

Question: what would be the legal issues of refusing to pay when asked to leave?

If I was asked to leave by a manager, my first comment would be, "Looks like you bought yourself a meal, if not, I will finish, pay, leave and never return."

The ball will be in his hands and his choice on whether it's a comped meal or not.

 

[mk2ja]

Leaving without paying, regardless if it was at the request of the manager would of been theft. If the cops got involved you would of either had to pay or possibly face the same charges as if you dined and dashed.

Even if they tell you to leave before you've finished your meal... based on an un-posted policy?

It seems to me that they would be the ones to break the verbal contact, not the OP.

Yeah, that there (in bold above) is kinda what I figured, too. I would claim that I did not receive the service and so I would not pay for it. I was not allowed to sit and eat the food before they expelled me from the premises, breaking the "contract," and thus forfeiting their claim to the money I would have paid for said service.

Again, I'm *really* glad that it didn't come to that. I wasn't totally sure what I would do if a cop arrived and the manager asked me to leave before I finished my meal.

Grimor, I'm not familiar with you, so I'm just wondering: are you a lawyer by any chance? If so (or if you can cite some sort of law), I'll not question any further, but if not, I think there's still some room for us to discuss it some more.

 

[mk2ja]

If I was asked to leave by a manager, my first comment would be, "Looks like you bought yourself a meal, if not, I will finish, pay, leave and never return."

The ball will be in his hands and his choice on whether it's a comped meal or not.

exACTly.

I don't think I used these words, but the concept is, "Look, Mr. Manager, I'm not going to cover up nor disarm. If you are unhappy with that fact, you may ask me to leave your restaurant, and I will comply, but you will be covering the cost of the meal I was not allowed to consume. Or, if you will not ask me to leave, please stop bothering me as I attempt to enjoy my order."

 

[jbombelli]

I have a funny feeling that when you are eating in a restaurant, you paid for the meal, not the seat. Nowhere in the menu / list of available services does the word "seat" appear with a price. I wonder how it would play out if the manager offered to box your purchase up so you could take it with you.

 

[Mr.Strato]

Not a Lawyer, but I believe this situation would probably be handled as 2 separate events...
1st event -ordering meal
2nd event- being asked to leave
I suggest this because ordering didn't seem to be contingent on OC'ing
I believe ordering infers paying.
After you found out they didn't want you to dine and OC, you know,
"If A then B" doesn't necessairly mean "If NOT b then NOT a"...
I guess they could offer you a "to go" box for the uneaten portion?

Tell you what, from your report I give kudos to both of you- it takes
stones to square off with an armed man.

 

[mk2ja]

Not a Lawyer, but I believe this situation would probably be handled as 2 separate events...
1st event -ordering meal
2nd event- being asked to leave
I suggest this because ordering didn't seem to be contingent on OC'ing
I believe ordering infers paying.
After you found out they didn't want you to dine and OC, you know,
"If A then B" doesn't necessairly mean "If NOT b then NOT a"...
I guess they could offer you a "to go" box for the uneaten portion?

Good thoughts.

Tell you what, from your report I give kudos to both of you- it takes
stones to square off with an armed man.

 

[MPD179]

In the past, I have had managers of various restaurants call and ask for people to be removed from their business. If the person(s) have already ordered their meal and the cooks have started to prepare it, you bought yourself a meal.

I have waited for them to pack it up for customer(s) in the past. If your asked to leave and you don't it is criminal trespass. If you refuse to pay for your order even after being asked to leave would result in a conversion/theft charge. I think if I were in that postition, I would pull my shirt over my weapon and try to enjoy my last meal at the establishment. Then I would take my fight to their corporate office and ask for a refund.

As a gunowner, I would not want the police called, and then be treated like a criminal for all in the restaurant to see. This only hurts our cause, as the other customers don't know the full story of what is happening. All they see or think is it's a BG with a gun being taken outside or hauled off by the police. Just my

 

[littletommy]

In the past, I have had managers of various restaurants call and ask for people to be removed from their business. If the person(s) have already ordered their meal and the cooks have started to prepare it, you bought yourself a meal.

I have waited for them to pack it up for customer(s) in the past. If your asked to leave and you don't it is criminal trespass. If you refuse to pay for your order even after being asked to leave would result in a conversion/theft charge. I think if I were in that postition, I would pull my shirt over my weapon and try to enjoy my last meal at the establishment. Then I would take my fight to their corporate office and ask for a refund.

As a gunowner, I would not want the police called, and then be treated like a criminal for all in the restaurant to see. This only hurts our cause, as the other customers don't know the full story of what is happening. All they see or think is it's a BG with a gun being taken outside or hauled off by the police. Just my

+1, and reps! I've already chimed in with my opinion of Buffalo Wild Wings, but my initial thought was, the manager didn't make a huge scene out of this. He might have just been going through the motions, due to some BS policy he doesn't agree with. I dunno, maybe, maybe not, but he did not insist you leave, and you finished your meal, paid and left. I think you both did what you could do, without the situation getting ugly.

 

[Wwwildthing]

Two words... pocket carry.

Two more words... ankle holster.

Just saying...