Fishers gas clerk arrested for intimidation, PD says pulled gun on theft suspect

[eldirector]

If ya'll want "simple and logical", then my general rule is "only shoot people that need shooting".

Don't shoot because they (or you) want it. Don't shoot because they deserve it. Shoot because the only thing that will solve the problem is to shoot 'em. Then, of course, shoot 'em good.

Even resolves those pesky OC encounters, where folks ask "What, are you gonna shoot me?". Just respond with "Why, do you need shooting?".

 

[bobzilla]

100% legal or not, I also feel it's a dick move by the cops. Sit him down, explain why he can't do that, arrest the ACTUAL perp and go on with your day. Arresting a citizen for doing your job is pretty dickish.

 

[Trigger Time]

100% legal or not, I also feel it's a dick move by the cops. Sit him down, explain why he can't do that, arrest the ACTUAL perp and go on with your day. Arresting a citizen for doing your job is pretty dickish.

Exactly. Cops can pull a gun on you because the wind is blowing but we can't pull a gun on a theif? Seems ****ed up

 

[rhino]

OR... given current events.. could one say that they were acting in defense of a third party by keeping the car from being used as a weapon ??

Hmmm . . . interesting.

Robbery requires threat or the threat of force against a person. If you climb in and that's it, I would not charge that as robbery. You voluntarily entered and no force was used against you. If a fight erupts in the car, etc. then it would become robbery...technically. Case law supports that if you fight to make an escape from theft it becomes robbery. The prosecutor doesn't always go for it, and at the end of the day they are the ones who get to decide what you're charged with. You might be able to argue kidnapping if they leave with you in it and you've told them not to.

That's an answer that satisfies my curiosity! And we all know how important pachyderm satisfaction is nowadays.

So let's say I'm stupid enough to get in my car while it's being stolen. I say, "Hey, dude, stop stealing my car."

He continues to steal the car, at which point it becomes robbery.

Then I say, "No, I'm serious. Quit it."

He then tries to bash me with the slap hammer he used to pull the lock out of the ignition, at which point things could get sporty.

So the progression is:

Theft ---> Stupidly Entering the Scene ---> Robbery ---> Forcible felony and fear of serious harm or death

You climb into my car? Well, it would be annoying, but that's not robbery. Think of robbery as a formula (it was my understanding that there would be no math), robbery=assault+theft. You climbing into my truck is not assault or theft.

You'd get peanut butter all over the dash, demand I drive you to a gun game or go for balut, but none of that is a forcible felony and I would have no fear of serious bodily injury or death.

No, the scenario is someone is stealing Kirk's truck, but Kirk sees it happening and climb's into Kirk's truck while the thief is engage in thievery. Then Kirk expresses to the thief that he should cease stealing the truck, but the thief continues his thievery, at which point the thief become a robber engaged in robbery.

 

[hpclayto]

Here's a thought; If you weren't there, you don't know what happened.

 

[Trigger Time]

Here's a thought; If you weren't there, you don't know what happened.

We found a fishers officer

 

[bobzilla]

Exactly. Cops can pull a gun on you because the wind is blowing but we can't pull a gun on a theif? Seems ****ed up

So... can a police officer be charged with intimidation everytime they draw their weapon on a non-violent misdemeanor? If not, why not? It doesn't require the use of deadly force, right? Devil's advocate and all that.

 

[EdC]

Hmmm . . . interesting.




That's an answer that satisfies my curiosity! And we all know how important pachyderm satisfaction is nowadays.

So let's say I'm stupid enough to get in my car while it's being stolen. I say, "Hey, dude, stop stealing my car."

He continues to steal the car, at which point it becomes robbery.

Then I say, "No, I'm serious. Quit it."

He then tries to bash me with the slap hammer he used to pull the lock out of the ignition, at which point things could get sporty.

So the progression is:

Theft ---> Stupidly Entering the Scene ---> Robbery ---> Forcible felony and fear of serious harm or death





No, the scenario is someone is stealing Kirk's truck, but Kirk sees it happening and climb's into Kirk's truck while the thief is engage in thievery. Then Kirk expresses to the thief that he should cease stealing the truck, but the thief continues his thievery, at which point the thief become a robber engaged in robbery.

Then there's the statute that allows reasonable force, including deadly force, to defend your occupied vehicle. Guess you could rely on that, too, in this thought experiment.

 

[Joniki]

Exactly. Cops can pull a gun on you because the wind is blowing but we can't pull a gun on a theif? Seems ****ed up

^^^

 

[hpclayto]

We found a fishers officer

Ha. I wish I made what they did. It's just good general rule of thumb for when people talk on the internet about things that happen they don't agree with .

 

[Liberty Sanders]

A true story that will shed a bit of light on how law enforcement attitudes can change over time:

Some time in the late 80's, ironically not more than a stone's throw from the station where I was a shift commander, a young woman walking down the street was set upon by a deranged individual who began stabbing her, his only motivation being that it was something he wanted to do.

A young man was passing by, saw what was happening, leaped from his car, drew a concealed handgun and forced the attacker to the ground, holding him for police. Tragically, the young woman was beyond help and died from her wounds at the scene.

Note: this occurred years before Ohio reformed its concealed carry laws and only commissioned law enforcement officers could carry concealed firearms in the state. Violation was a felony.

Our guys had been summoned by neighbors who heard the girl's screams and responded to the scene. Once things had been sorted out one of our men began interviewing the young man.

YM:...and when I saw the guy stabbing the lady I jumped out of my car and drew my gun and made him stop.

Officer: Ok, so you saw the guy stabbing her, and that's when you jumped out of your car, got your gun out of the trunk and stopped the guy.

YM: Oh, no sir. I was CARRYING the gun.

Officer: No, Son, you weren't. It's against the law for you to CARRY a gun. You stopped, jumped out of your car and got your gun out of the trunk...RIGHT?????????

<light bulb of recognition comes on in brave young man's head>

YM: Oh yes sir. I remember now. I DID have my gun in the trunk!

Officer: Attaboy.

Moral: Good guys are good guys and should be TREATED like good guys.

 

[singlestacksig]

remember this case?

No charges filed against Hancock Co. woman in husband?s fatal shooting | Fox 59
Because she thought her husband would harm police, Elizabeth Roberts said she shot him.

According to prosecutors, Roberts met the requirements for the “defense of others” provision of Indiana law for providing for use of deadly force to defend others from serious bodily injury or death.

 

[Denny347]

Damn, my head hurts from all the "what ifs". There are an infinite number of scenarios with an infinite number of answers. The devil is in the details. So I will say this...to ALL questions, the answer is "maybe". Mic drop.....

 

[HoughMade]

S...o I will say this...to ALL questions, the answer is "maybe". Mic drop.....

Now if you sent a bill, you'd have the makings of a lawyer.

 

[Expat]

A true story that will shed a bit of light on how law enforcement attitudes can change over time:

Some time in the late 80's, ironically not more than a stone's throw from the station where I was a shift commander, a young woman walking down the street was set upon by a deranged individual who began stabbing her, his only motivation being that it was something he wanted to do.

A young man was passing by, saw what was happening, leaped from his car, drew a concealed handgun and forced the attacker to the ground, holding him for police. Tragically, the young woman was beyond help and died from her wounds at the scene.

Note: this occurred years before Ohio reformed its concealed carry laws and only commissioned law enforcement officers could carry concealed firearms in the state. Violation was a felony.

Our guys had been summoned by neighbors who heard the girl's screams and responded to the scene. Once things had been sorted out one of our men began interviewing the young man.

YM:...and when I saw the guy stabbing the lady I jumped out of my car and drew my gun and made him stop.

Officer: Ok, so you saw the guy stabbing her, and that's when you jumped out of your car, got your gun out of the trunk and stopped the guy.

YM: Oh, no sir. I was CARRYING the gun.

Officer: No, Son, you weren't. It's against the law for you to CARRY a gun. You stopped, jumped out of your car and got your gun out of the trunk...RIGHT?????????

<light bulb of recognition comes on in brave young man's head>

YM: Oh yes sir. I remember now. I DID have my gun in the trunk!

Officer: Attaboy.

Moral: Good guys are good guys and should be TREATED like good guys.

Looking for justice it sounds like to me.

 

[rhino]

Damn, my head hurts from all the "what ifs". There are an infinite number of scenarios with an infinite number of answers. The devil is in the details. So I will say this...to ALL questions, the answer is "maybe". Mic drop.....

Now if you sent a bill, you'd have the makings of a lawyer.

Think of court precedents each time he Dennyed a trial!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Think of court precedents each time he Dennyed a trial!

Indeed, the handiwork of the ORIGINAL Denny. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Damn, my head hurts from all the "what ifs". There are an infinite number of scenarios with an infinite number of answers. The devil is in the details. So I will say this...to ALL questions, the answer is "maybe". Mic drop.....

When there are no details, the logical thing to do is fill them in to fit your preconceived notions.

Exactly. Cops can pull a gun on you because the wind is blowing but we can't pull a gun on a theif? Seems ****ed up

You should be good with that. No one cares if the bad guy gets a gun pointed at him...right?

So... can a police officer be charged with intimidation everytime they draw their weapon on a non-violent misdemeanor? If not, why not? It doesn't require the use of deadly force, right? Devil's advocate and all that.

Drawing a gun isn't Intimidation. If you commit Intimidation while drawing a deadly weapon, it is an enhancement though.

 

[Kutnupe14]

A true story that will shed a bit of light on how law enforcement attitudes can change over time:

Some time in the late 80's, ironically not more than a stone's throw from the station where I was a shift commander, a young woman walking down the street was set upon by a deranged individual who began stabbing her, his only motivation being that it was something he wanted to do.

A young man was passing by, saw what was happening, leaped from his car, drew a concealed handgun and forced the attacker to the ground, holding him for police. Tragically, the young woman was beyond help and died from her wounds at the scene.

Note: this occurred years before Ohio reformed its concealed carry laws and only commissioned law enforcement officers could carry concealed firearms in the state. Violation was a felony.

Our guys had been summoned by neighbors who heard the girl's screams and responded to the scene. Once things had been sorted out one of our men began interviewing the young man.

YM:...and when I saw the guy stabbing the lady I jumped out of my car and drew my gun and made him stop.

Officer: Ok, so you saw the guy stabbing her, and that's when you jumped out of your car, got your gun out of the trunk and stopped the guy.

YM: Oh, no sir. I was CARRYING the gun.

Officer: No, Son, you weren't. It's against the law for you to CARRY a gun. You stopped, jumped out of your car and got your gun out of the trunk...RIGHT?????????

<light bulb of recognition comes on in brave young man's head>

YM: Oh yes sir. I remember now. I DID have my gun in the trunk!

Officer: Attaboy.

Moral: Good guys are good guys and should be TREATED like good guys.

The difference today, is that when the bad guy's defense attorney hears that story, and asks why the guy with the gun was charged, the officer who did the "moral" thing would be crucified. When I first started in LE, I learned early that if you give a break to someone (like lowering a ticket speed to save someone money), it can come back and bite you in the ass.

 

[HoughMade]

Also, there's a little difference between someone trying to save someone else's life and someone trying to save the company $4.49.