White privilege 101

[Kutnupe14]

He has a point though. We've had affirmative action for morons ever since the first set of students graded on a curve. I'm glad this article is against equalizing outcomes. But finding people on the left who can see the folly of that is getting much more difficult.

Question.... 100 students have the exact same admission resumes. They all apply to the same school, which has 50 slots available. We'll say for the sake of argument, the school is in the south, and desegregated in 1965. The breakdown of the students: 70 white, 15 black, 10 hispanic, 5 asian. Should the school throw all the names in the pot and take whomever comes out, or should admissions seek to find balance between, for its incoming student profile? I think this is a very difficult question to answer, as equality and fairness may have different meanings based on how you view this instance.
One should be reminded, that affirmative action, doesn't imply that those that benefit from it are inferior candidates (which many believe).

 

[Mark-DuCo]

Question.... 100 students have the exact same admission resumes. They all apply to the same school, which has 50 slots available. We'll say for the sake of argument, the school is in the south, and desegregated in 1965. The breakdown of the students: 70 white, 15 black, 10 hispanic, 5 asian. Should the school throw all the names in the pot and take whomever comes out, or should admissions seek to find balance between, for its incoming student profile? I think this is a very difficult question to answer, as equality and fairness may have different meanings based on how you view this instance.
One should be reminded, that affirmative action, doesn't imply that those that benefit from it are inferior candidates (which many believe).

If all the admission resumes are the same then they should all be thrown into a hat and drawn at random. It gives everyone an equal chance at being admitted and is not influenced by the students' races.

 

[indiucky]

Uh... how about wealth and fame?

And of course there is this famous pic of Gaston Glock and his new wife, along with Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker...(Look how Sarah and Matt look at each other...Who says Hollywood marriages don't last?????)

I don't think wealth and fame give you any advantages....I am sure that Aryan blonde would have ended up with Gaston even if he didn't invent Glocks...Right???

 

[jamil]

Question.... 100 students have the exact same admission resumes. They all apply to the same school, which has 50 slots available. We'll say for the sake of argument, the school is in the south, and desegregated in 1965. The breakdown of the students: 70 white, 15 black, 10 hispanic, 5 asian. Should the school throw all the names in the pot and take whomever comes out, or should admissions seek to find balance between, for its incoming student profile? I think this is a very difficult question to answer, as equality and fairness may have different meanings based on how you view this instance.
One should be reminded, that affirmative action, doesn't imply that those that benefit from it are inferior candidates (which many believe).

If we want race not to matter, then we have to stop making race matter. Should the university seek balance between those with freckles and those without?

I can see universities wanting a diversity of culture. But deciding that on race alone doesn't necessarily do that. Don't you think it's at least a little prejudiced to assume that black students all have the same culture? That picking black over white students will necessarily provide cultural diversity? And I think that framing this argument as all students being equal in every way except race is a cop-out.

But anyway, let's get to numbers...

Random IS the real student profile though. What do you think would happen if colleges weren't allowed to know the race before accepting students? If every applicant meeting a threshold of requirements is perfectly equal in all other ways, then the normal distribution should closely match other distributions, like race, culture, etcetera. So let's go with the 100 applicants, with 50 slots available. If the decision were completely random, wouldn't the 50 pretty much match the diversity of the applicants?

If it were truly random admissions should average out to:

35 Whites (70% of all applicants)
7.5 Blacks (15% of applicants)
5 Hispanics (10% of applicants)
2.5 Asians (5% of applicants)

Or are you trying to achieve something else? Are you really trying to achieve equal admissions? Is that actually fair?

So to get as "balanced" as possible, you turn away no Blacks, no Hispanics, no Asians--they're all equally qualified, but you have to turn away 60% of whites with the same qualifications to get the most racially balanced enrollment.

That kind of enrollment looks like this:

15 Blacks (30% of all applicants)
10 Hispanics (20% of applicants)
5 Asians (10% of applicants)
20 Whites (40% of applicants)

You think that is fair?

 

[Thor]

Harrison Bergeron likes this. Who?


Personally, I've had great opportunities - multiple engineering degrees, two parents, Christian upbringing, etc., etc. ... The author's not telling me to feel guilty and give up my successful engineering career so a moron to replace me, but to not call someone without my skills a moron! I have no problem with this verbiage if they are trying to BS their way into a better position. I may or may not be an a-hole but I have a really quick reaction to BS.
QUOTE]

Personally, I've had great opportunities...which were open to almost anyone else willing to try. I have been able to take advantage of them because I'm willing to work for it and seem to have some cognitive privilege. Or I'm just willing to work and don't value ignorance like it's a badge of honor.

 

[JettaKnight]

That's Flavio Briatore, isn't it? And according to Wikipedia:

After twice failing public (state) school, he attended a private (independent) school, receiving a diploma with the lowest grades in Land Surveying at Fassino di Busca high school.

He hooked up with Luciano Benetton, and during that period where the United Colors of Benetton were all the rage, he made his money - while on the lamb in the US Virgin Islands.


Anyone that follows Formula 1 will know him as a cheat and philanderer, and generally a scummy guy. He didn't get where he is by studying, and isn't someone I'd want my son to emulate.

 

[Thor]

Question.... 100 students have the exact same admission resumes. They all apply to the same school, which has 50 slots available. We'll say for the sake of argument, the school is in the south, and desegregated in 1965. The breakdown of the students: 70 white, 15 black, 10 hispanic, 5 asian. Should the school throw all the names in the pot and take whomever comes out, or should admissions seek to find balance between, for its incoming student profile? I think this is a very difficult question to answer, as equality and fairness may have different meanings based on how you view this instance.
QUOTE]

It's just like a promotion board...include pictures, all the pretty girls get in first. At least that's the way it worked for me...saved all that reading...

 

[JettaKnight]

Harrison Bergeron likes this. Who?

Did you Google it?

I have no problem with this verbiage if they are trying to BS their way into a better position. I may or may not be an a-hole but I have a really quick reaction to BS.

I call that sort of person a con-man, not a moron.

Personally, I've had great opportunities...which were open to almost anyone else willing to try. I have been able to take advantage of them because I'm willing to work for it and seem to have some cognitive privilege. Or I'm just willing to work and don't value ignorance like it's a badge of honor.

I'm not advocating using "cognitive privilege" as crutch, in fact, I don't want to ever hear the term after today. You can't be anything you want, but everyone can be good at something.


Did you stop to think, why you have this outlook on life? What experiences and influences led you to believe that you can succeed? Did you stop and think that without those influences, you might not have such a sunny disposition?


Not everyone is proud of ignorance, it's just that those people always seem to bubble up to the surface.

The problem we face locally is immigrants who operate in America using the mindset of their old country - college is for the wealthy, success isn't available to you, etc., etc. Once you understand this, then you can begin to change their mindset instead of belittling them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If we want race not to matter, then we have to stop making race matter. Should the university seek balance between those with freckles and those without?

I can see universities wanting a diversity of culture. But deciding that on race alone doesn't necessarily do that. Don't you think it's at least a little prejudiced to assume that black students all have the same culture? That picking black over white students will necessarily provide cultural diversity? And I think that framing this argument as all students being equal in every way except race is a cop-out.

But anyway, let's get to numbers...

Random IS the real student profile though. What do you think would happen if colleges weren't allowed to know the race before accepting students? If every applicant meeting a threshold of requirements is perfectly equal in all other ways, then the normal distribution should closely match other distributions, like race, culture, etcetera. So let's go with the 100 applicants, with 50 slots available. If the decision were completely random, wouldn't the 50 pretty much match the diversity of the applicants?

If it were truly random admissions should average out to:

35 Whites (70% of all applicants)
7.5 Blacks (15% of applicants)
5 Hispanics (10% of applicants)
2.5 Asians (5% of applicants)

Or are you trying to achieve something else? Are you really trying to achieve equal admissions? Is that actually fair?

So to get as "balanced" as possible, you turn away no Blacks, no Hispanics, no Asians--they're all equally qualified, but you have to turn away 60% of whites with the same qualifications to get the most racially balanced enrollment.

That kind of enrollment looks like this:

15 Blacks (30% of all applicants)
10 Hispanics (20% of applicants)
5 Asians (10% of applicants)
20 Whites (40% of applicants)

You think that is fair?

Obviously "balanced" is the wrong word to be used. I was thinking more along these lines.

35 White
7.5 Black
5 Hispanic
2.5 Asian
we can take the 0.5s and either round them up for each group (slightly increasing admission), or give the additional student to Asians (3). Anyways, each qualified student is represented in percentage numbers equal to their applications.

as opposed to completely blind outcomes.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Obviously "balanced" is the wrong word to be used. I was thinking more along these lines.

35 White
7.5 Black
5 Hispanic
2.5 Asian
we can take the 0.5s and either round them up for each group (slightly increasing admission), or give the additional student to Asians (3). Anyways, each qualified student is represented in percentage numbers equal to their applications.

as opposed to completely blind outcomes.

The liberal wet dream. Equal outcomes.

 

[Thor]

Not everyone is proud of ignorance, it's just that those people always seem to bubble up to the surface.

I knew hundreds of them in HS (they never went on to college), it was cool to fail...if you passed your classes you were not one of the team. They were the first to show up with their hands out for free stuff. Now as adults they consider those who work to be fools. The children they raised share their values. Those who are truly mentally challenged are far out numbered by those who are truly lazy and greedy.

 

[jamil]

Obviously "balanced" is the wrong word to be used. I was thinking more along these lines.

35 White
7.5 Black
5 Hispanic
2.5 Asian
we can take the 0.5s and either round them up for each group (slightly increasing admission), or give the additional student to Asians (3). Anyways, each qualified student is represented in percentage numbers equal to their applications.

as opposed to completely blind outcomes.

You don't need to consider race at all if that's the outcome you want. A completely blind (random) selection process would do that, on average.

 

[jamil]

The liberal wet dream. Equal outcomes.

What he's saying isn't an "equal outcome". What he's saying is that the diversity in enrollment, assuming equally qualified students, should approximately equal the diversity of applicants. And if colleges didn't even consider race at all, like don't even put it on the application as a space to complete, that's exactly what would happen. enrollment diversity = applicant diversity.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You don't need to consider race at all if that's the outcome you want. A completely blind (random) selection process would do that, on average.

So if a completely blind process produced spots for 50 all white students (remote but possible), those from. the small pools of qualified applicants: black, hispanic, and asians should just be happy the system was blind?

 

[rhino]

So, The Daily Iowan 'news' paper of Iowa U published an article about 'Cognitive Privilege':

"There are many kinds of privilege besides white privilege: cognitive privilege, for example. We now know that intelligence is not something we have significant control over but is something we are born with. We are living in a society in which success is increasingly linked to one’s intelligence."

Next up, affirmative action for idiots. Yes, Mr Engineering Company, you must hire this moron as your chief engineer, pay him well, and let him design bridges. Any success anywhere by anyone is the fault of someone else and I must now be paid for it. It is sad to see a generation of Americans being raised to be too stupid to survive on their own.

Wait! Are you trying to tell me that smarter people have some kind of advantage in life? NO WAY! NO WAY! How can that possibly be? The next thing you know, you'll be saying that being tall, strong, fast, with superior motors skills is some kind of advantage in sports!

I think it's absurd to refer to it as "privilege." An innate advantage doesn't equate to privilege and it's useless if you don't use it. Privilege is something that is handed to you.

And of course there is this famous pic of Gaston Glock and his new wife, along with Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker...(Look how Sarah and Matt look at each other...Who says Hollywood marriages don't last?????)

You complete me.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Seems to be a timely place to post this:

An example of "good Trump".

EXCELLENT TRUMP: Trump Justice Department Preparing To Crack Down on College Affirmative Action | Daily Wire

 

[IndyTom]

Harrison Bergeron likes this.

Who?

https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison Bergeron_djvu.txt

Incredible Vonnegut story. I don't want to read it again right now, though.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

So if a completely blind process produced spots for 50 all white students (remote but possible), those from. the small pools of qualified applicants: black, hispanic, and asians should just be happy the system was blind?

Yes. I'd say the same thing if it picked the least amount of white people and all of the other ethnicities as well.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes. I'd say the same thing if it picked the least amount of white people and all of the other ethnicities as well.

Ok, lets take this a little further. Now lets say out of the 100 applicants 97 were white, 1 black, 1 hispanic, and 1 asian. You'd still be ok if all the admitted were white?
And should collegiate athletics be eliminated? Legacy positions? Foreign students?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

What he's saying isn't an "equal outcome". What he's saying is that the diversity in enrollment, assuming equally qualified students, should approximately equal the diversity of applicants. And if colleges didn't even consider race at all, like don't even put it on the application as a space to complete, that's exactly what would happen. enrollment diversity = applicant diversity.

Why? Who made that rule? Isn't that like the ultimate basic philosophy? "Life's not fair". Some people will ALWAYS be born into poverty, some people will ALWAYS be born into wealth. Most people will ALWAYS be born somewhere in the middle. For the vast majority (all ethnicities included), your life is what you make it.