Franklin armory introducing Short barrel firearm with stock without stamp

[T.Lex]

I have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to be disappoint by what this turns out to be.

Is this another reference to marital issues?

 

[HoughMade]

Is this another reference to marital issues?

Y'know, the weather report called for 4 to 6" tonight....when she heard that, my wife just looked away wistfully with a barely audible "I wish".

...Anyhoo, this is not Franklin Armory's first trip down this road:

Franklin Armory's New AR-15 Is Neither A Pistol Nor A Rifle And No NFA Paperwork Required - The Truth About Guns

One wonders about a proprietary duplex ammunition....rampant speculation is kinda fun.

 

[Double T]

I'm just wondering why it's a big deal if it has 26.5" OAL? It's not a rifle or an SBR at that point correct?
I took a muscle relaxer, so my reading comprehension may be faltering, but is this not correct:
OAL < 26", Barrel length <16" with no stock or VFG= Pistol
OAL <26", Barrel Length <16" with VFG=AOW
OAL >26", Barrel Length <16" with VFG = Firearm
OAL >26", Barrel Length >16" stock, VFG = Rifle
OAL <26", Barrel Length <16", stock, VFF=SBR

Are they FINALLy challenging the absurdity of the 26" rule? If you can put a VFG on a <16" barrel and it be a "firearm" why then can't you go over the 26" also and put a stock on it?

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm just wondering why it's a big deal if it has 26.5" OAL? It's not a rifle or an SBR at that point correct?
I took a muscle relaxer, so my reading comprehension may be faltering, but is this not correct:
OAL < 26", Barrel length <16" with no stock or VFG= Pistol
OAL <26", Barrel Length <16" with VFG=AOW
OAL >26", Barrel Length <16" with VFG = Firearm
OAL >26", Barrel Length >16" stock, VFG = Rifle
OAL <26", Barrel Length <16", stock, VFF=SBR

Are they FINALLy challenging the absurdity of the 26" rule? If you can put a VFG on a <16" barrel and it be a "firearm" why then can't you go over the 26" also and put a stock on it?

Exactly. Ive asked these same qurstions before on ingo regarding the 26" "firearms" but no one wanted to touch the issue with a ten foot pole. Everyone's answer is always the same "Well if you wanna be the test case go ahead".
It's sad that we got to the point in our nation's history when we the people are afraid of the Government. So much so where we are even afraid to legally do things that are toting the line. Especially when it's regarding issues where none of us have Ill intent. Because if we did we would have just done whatever without any consideration for law whether that law is constitutional or not. We also live in a world where the one with the most money or power gets to determine what is right or wrong. Every once in a great,while an Oops occurs in favor of the people but it's rare.
Now its hard to tell who is good and who is bad. Would cartels be so big and powerful if the cia and dea and FBI wouldn't have helped them smuggle and sell their product? Or would they have not have killed so many people so efficiently hadn't the ATF illegaly but because they are the "law" legally sold them their guns?
I could list countless examples of wjen the Govern ment breaks the law it's legal but if we the people even have intent to break the law it's illegal and must be punished.
Anytime I see a company legaly skirting the nfa laws i will fully support them.
Rant hat off

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yet another company placing a bet that the binary trigger won't be getting banned or added to the NFA "list"... Interesting concept though, allowing you to switch from "standard" mechanical trigger mode to the "digital" mode which lightens the trigger pull on one setting, and converts it to a binary trigger on the second setting.

[video=youtube;KSyc_WfIC_8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSyc_WfIC_8[/video]

 

[rimfireOH]

It will be interesting to learn the loophole so the rest of us can put our own together for well under 1100.

Yes, that's what I'm waiting for.

 

[Parrthed]

That digital trigger is pretty neat. Still not my cup of tea.

If there is an exploitable "loophole" Im sure there will be many people building some new "firearms"

 

[Viking Fires]

I read a couple theories from gun reviewers who were speculating on how it could be considered a non-sbr. One suggestion was a new type of barrel rifling that didn't fit the legal description of being a rifle or a shotgun, but who knows

 

[SOUP]

so they took electronic technology similar to what has been used in paintball markers the past 15 years and incorporated that technology into real firearms. Neat.

 

[M67]

I read a couple theories from gun reviewers who were speculating on how it could be considered a non-sbr. One suggestion was a new type of barrel rifling that didn't fit the legal description of being a rifle or a shotgun, but who knows

I also wondered if a paradox style rifling would still be considered rifled

 

[Alamo]

I read a couple theories from gun reviewers who were speculating on how it could be considered a non-sbr. One suggestion was a new type of barrel rifling that didn't fit the legal description of being a rifle or a shotgun, but who knows

There is a Lancaster barrel, which is smooth on the inside, but has an oval interior cross section that rotates or spirals over the length of the barrel, imparting spin to the projectile. It was used in British artillery in the 1850s/60s -- and as well for carbines of the Royal Engineers.

The Russians are said to have developed a 9.6 x 53mm Lancaster cartridge for use in a Lancaster barrel fitted to an AK-like receiver for civilian sales -- interestingly enough to stay compliant with Russian gun laws, since the barrel counts as a smooth-bore. It takes 5 years to qualify for a permit for a rifled firearm, but "shotguns"/smoothbores do not.


More on oval-bored barrels: Firearms History, Technology & Development: Is it a shotgun or a rifle? Oval Bores and the Colindian

 

[g00n24]

There is a Lancaster barrel, which is smooth on the inside, but has an oval interior cross section that rotates or spirals over the length of the barrel, imparting spin to the projectile. It was used in British artillery in the 1850s/60s -- and as well for carbines of the Royal Engineers.

The Russians are said to have developed a 9.6 x 53mm Lancaster cartridge for use in a Lancaster barrel fitted to an AK-like receiver for civilian sales -- interestingly enough to stay compliant with Russian gun laws, since the barrel counts as a smooth-bore. It takes 5 years to qualify for a permit for a rifled firearm, but "shotguns"/smoothbores do not.


More on oval-bored barrels: Firearms History, Technology & Development: Is it a shotgun or a rifle? Oval Bores and the Colindian

So far, this sounds like the best guess IMO.

 

[rimfireOH]

Any best guesses on local gun shops that will carry these early?

 

[T.Lex]

I think that a new barrel technology like that wouldn't be introduced in an AR frame. Seems like the tech to produce something like that on a large scale would have been noticed, and that's assuming the capital necessary to build the infrastructure.

I'm still thinking its the binary trigger adaptation.

 

[g00n24]

I think that a new barrel technology like that wouldn't be introduced in an AR frame. Seems like the tech to produce something like that on a large scale would have been noticed, and that's assuming the capital necessary to build the infrastructure.

I'm still thinking its the binary trigger adaptation.

If it's old technology then it's just a matter of adapting it to a different platform. As the post above points out they are currently using the Lancaster barrel in AK type weapons in Mother Russia.

 

[T.Lex]

That require a new, heavy round.

The effect on a conventional .223/5.56 round would be interesting to know.

 

[Thegeek]

So 2 grooves and 2 lands (essentially the same as hexagonal barrels) and it's not "rifled"? So what's the definition of rifling? Is there a minimum number of groves/lands? What's the definition of "smooth bore"? Uniform throughout the length? I'd say an oval barrel that's twisted is not uniform from one cross section to the next. This whole thing stinks of just asking for more ATF rulings/restrictions.

 

[HoughMade]

So 2 grooves and 2 lands (essentially the same as hexagonal barrels) and it's not "rifled"? So what's the definition of rifling? Is there a minimum number of groves/lands? What's the definition of "smooth bore"? Uniform throughout the length? I'd say an oval barrel that's twisted is not uniform from one cross section to the next. This whole thing stinks of just asking for more ATF rulings/restrictions.

This is what I have been looking for. So far, this is the closest I have gotten:

The term “rifled” is derived from the verb “to rifle,” which means “to cut spiral grooves into the bore of (as a firearm or piece of ordnance).” Webster's Third New International Dictionary 1954 (1986).

U.S. v. Meadows, 91 F.3d 851, 856 (7th Cir. 1996). I have not seen a definition in a statute or regulation. This case would seem to indicate that if it's not "spiral grooves" (I wouldn't hang my hat on cut, vs. button, vs. pressed, etc. grooves), This case is about the government charging that the defendant possessed a SBR illegally that he had made out of an "old pistol" and it did not submit evidence that the barrel was rifled. The "rifled bore" is an element of the crime.

Apparently the government simply overlooked the “rifled bore” element when proving its case. But this is not a harmless oversight. The old pistol that Meadows converted may well not have had a rifled bore. If not, he could not have been convicted under the statute. Failure to prove this essential element was plain error. The judgment is Reversed, and the case Remanded with instructions to enter a judgment of acquittal on both counts of the indictment.

The "smoothbore" in some configuration is looking plausible.

 

[edwea]

Even my kids know that if you're getting ready to do something that bumps up to the line of being acceptable or not, you don't make a big deal about it so as not to force the parents to intervene. You have to play it cool so it doesn't look like you're getting away with anything. I feel like a new regulation is getting ready to happen.

 

[g00n24]

Even my kids know that if you're getting ready to do something that bumps up to the line of being acceptable or not, you don't make a big deal about it so as not to force the parents to intervene. You have to play it cool so it doesn't look like you're getting away with anything. I feel like a new regulation is getting ready to happen.

Meh, if they make a new regulation then they make a new regulation. I'm sure you said the same about the pistol braces, and they are completely legal and becoming an industry standard at this point. Acting like scared little girls is no way to exercise our freedoms.