The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[jamil]

That depends on where you're coming from. The idea of Capitalism is honestly a very hard concept to understand, if you have been denied participation in it. Socialism,conversely, is a very easy concept to understand. This would be especially true of peasant classes and those in bondage. It's like democracy. Democracy isn't always the best way to change a nation, at least not from the outset. The more wealth a nation acquires, the more ideal (IMO) it is for accepting Democracy.

That's the problem with socialism, it sounds moral. Bit it takes more depth to get to what doesn't work about it.

 

[jamil]

I'm trying to find an old example as to the way it was explained to me in college.

That might be the problem. People have axes to grind and biases. Even professors. I think it's valuable to question everything, or at least question things enough. Even what professors tell you.

 

[jamil]

And I reiterate that most of these statements are made without knowledge of what he actually wrote.

It's much akin to criticism of Shakespeare's Henry V without knowledge of Agincourt or bothering to read the play.

Not worth debating.

It might be worth seeing you demonstrate your vast knowledge of Marx. Maybe you can convince me why labor is the source of value in capitalism. Marx didn't.

 

[Alpo]

You failed to read what I said earlier (2 days ago?) Post #664.

 

[jamil]

Well, you confused communism with Marx' treatise on capitalism, so it's obvious who isn't ready to do more than play with his....er....

Can you perhaps recommend a chapter in Capital II which is ****less?

 

[jamil]

You failed to read what I said earlier (2 days ago?) Post #664.

Why you're absolutely right about that. I did not catch that.

Marx's labor theory of value is flawed. However, his observations/criticisms of capitalism are substantially true. Americans are generally unable to discuss Marx's ideas because they have been demonized. So be it. Things aren't going to substantially change in the USA in this generation or the next.

So at least there's something we agree with. I'm saying that if so much of Marx's ideas are based on ****, well. **** in -> **** out.

I can say the same thing, that I agree with some of his observations about capitalism too. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the system that works best with people fundamentally interested in self-preservation. The idea of a government based on primacy of the individual makes individual liberty possible. Capitalism is so far the only system compatible with individual liberty, contrary to Marx.

 

[BugI02]

And here is a perfect example of the reason these conversations go nowhere.

I don't believe I need to read Mein Kampf, either, to know I disagree/disapprove of its concepts.

"For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit ..."

 

[Alpo]

Good for you. Another Hitler reference. Followed by a biblical reference.

Godwin's Law with a Bug Corollary.

 

[BugI02]

"Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience."

 

[jamil]

Good for you. Another Hitler reference. Followed by a biblical reference.

Godwin's Law with a Bug Corollary.

I hate to Denny this up, but Godwin’s law isn’t a real law. It’s just something people say on the internet to marginalize a point rather than explaining what is wrong with it.

 

[Alpo]

I hate to Denny this up, but Godwin’s law isn’t a real law. It’s just something people say on the internet to marginalize a point rather than explaining what is wrong with it.

Denny's points are normally less esoteric. If you don't like the name, perhaps you could write to the Internet Naming Convention Standards Bureau and petition for a ruling?

But, Godwin has a good point.

 

[rob63]

Total Receipts: Up by 4 Percent in the First Seven Months of Fiscal Year 2018

Receipts for the first seven months of fiscal year 2018 totaled $2,012 billion, CBO estimates—$83 billion more than the amount during the same period last year.
Receipts collected in April were $30 billion to $40 billion larger than CBO expected when it prepared the estimates reported in The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2018 to 2028, which it issued on April 9. The bulk of that difference stems from larger-than-anticipated payments of individual income taxes. Those payments were mostly related to economic activity in 2017 and may reflect stronger-than-expected income growth in that year. Part of the strength in receipts also may reflect larger-than-anticipated payments for economic activity in 2018. The reasons for the added revenues will be better understood as more detailed information becomes available later this year.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53821

 

[jamil]

Denny's points are normally less esoteric. If you don't like the name, perhaps you could write to the Internet Naming Convention Standards Bureau and petition for a ruling?

But, Godwin has a good point.

His point was about internet conversations eventually invoking "Hitler". Obviously that's not actually true. It's just humorously relevant to many internet conversations. Godwin's point is better served in the context of hyperbole. But some comparisons and references are apt. Bug's use was apt. It served a valid point.

Jamil's law: When any online discussion mentions Hitler, for any reason, regardless of context, the probability of someone pompously invoking Godwin's law approaches 1.

 

[jamil]

Total Receipts: Up by 4 Percent in the First Seven Months of Fiscal Year 2018

Receipts for the first seven months of fiscal year 2018 totaled $2,012 billion, CBO estimates—$83 billion more than the amount during the same period last year.
Receipts collected in April were $30 billion to $40 billion larger than CBO expected when it prepared the estimates reported in The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2018 to 2028, which it issued on April 9. The bulk of that difference stems from larger-than-anticipated payments of individual income taxes. Those payments were mostly related to economic activity in 2017 and may reflect stronger-than-expected income growth in that year. Part of the strength in receipts also may reflect larger-than-anticipated payments for economic activity in 2018. The reasons for the added revenues will be better understood as more detailed information becomes available later this year.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53821

I have an extended family member who is an investment guru and owns his own firm. Lives in a cushy, exclusive part of a very democratic city. Is pretty well off. Leans progressive. Supports wealth redistribution. Ironically is pissed that the new tax laws make him pay more tax. He's pissed that he can't deduct his state tax burden, his mortgage is really high, you know, living in the posh gated community and all, and his itemized deductions just aren't what they used to be. But dude, I thought you thought wealth redistribution was so great. Because wealthier people should pay their fair share. Because it's moral.

Sucks when they take it from YOUR paycheck, don't it.

 

[churchmouse]

Sucks when they take it from YOUR paycheck, don't it.

Good friend of many years fits this to a "T"
Self employed. Well off. Leans the same way.
Squealed like a smashed rat when the Tax hit him.
My standard come back to the socialist leaning wealth grabbers is "Double up" as you seem to have more than enough.

 

[actaeon277]

I have an extended family member who is an investment guru and owns his own firm. Lives in a cushy, exclusive part of a very democratic city. Is pretty well off. Leans progressive. Supports wealth redistribution. Ironically is pissed that the new tax laws make him pay more tax. He's pissed that he can't deduct his state tax burden, his mortgage is really high, you know, living in the posh gated community and all, and his itemized deductions just aren't what they used to be. But dude, I thought you thought wealth redistribution was so great. Because wealthier people should pay their fair share. Because it's moral.

Sucks when they take it from YOUR paycheck, don't it.

That's the gist.
Everyone I talk to that thinks it's a GREAT IDEA, are only okay with it when it's OTHER'S that pay.

 

[Kutnupe14]

$500K to Cohen from guy from guess where? It ain't Kansas.

 

[Alpo]

His point was about internet conversations eventually invoking "Hitler". Obviously that's not actually true. It's just humorously relevant to many internet conversations. Godwin's point is better served in the context of hyperbole. But some comparisons and references are apt. Bug's use was apt. It served a valid point.

Jamil's law: When any online discussion mentions Hitler, for any reason, regardless of context, the probability of someone pompously invoking Godwin's law approaches 1.

I think you miss the point. It is relevant, whether humorous or not.

 

[printcraft]

I think you miss the point. It is relevant, whether humorous or not.

Hey, there are some more "nazi antics" going on in the political funny picture thread, please stop by and review and give us your input.

 

[Alpo]

Hey, there are some more "nazi antics" going on in the political funny picture thread, please stop by and review and give us your input.

Nice of you to drop by. See you in the funny papers.