1911 accuracy woes

[Expat]

I am a righty and left eyed. I shoot with both eyes open but use my left eye. It makes me need to cant my head just a bit and left shoulder just a bit forward.

 

[DocIndy]

Cross eye dominance was inherited from my dad. We shoot right handed, but the left eye wins out. I’ve shot this way since I first started pulling the trigger. Now it’s natural and I give it no thought. For fun, I have tried both eyes open and right eye dominant. Feels weird to me. My groups get a whole lot better when I go back to my left, even with my new glasses.

 

[rvb]

I was seeing double the whole time. Not going to work.

Thats part of having two eyes open. It’s that way for everyone, it’s the nature of having two eyes. Like anything worthwhile, it takes some effort to get used to it. If you want to progress as a shooter, spend more than a couple mags working on it.

learn to call your shots. Calling your shots and trigger control are the fundamental keys to accurate shooting.

-rvb

 

[AllenM]

I have been monitoring this thread with interest because I have shot this pistol and I shoot a substantial amount and i am a good shot....just ask me.

I had to work way to hard to make this gun shoot "decent" groups shooting unsupported. I honestly feel there is a lock up issue here.

Sorry to say that Cmann. But on the bright side I don't think it is you and that you need to relearn how to shoot.

Plus I am cross eye dominant. that should not be an issue.

you are having to work too hard with this pistol. Trust yourself it needs some attention. I see little advantage in a hand gun that shoots well off of a sand bag. I am not trying to run your gun down but I do have first hand knowledge with this one. If I had shot it prior to working on it we would have had this conversation sooner

 

[hps]

CMann, when you shoot both eyes open the target will be in focus and ur front sight will be blurry (DOUBLE).

 

[BE Mike]

The fact of the matter is that unless you machine rest the pistol at a decently long range (25-50 yds.). You are never going to truly know if it is you or the gun. Do you belong to a club that has a machine rest available to borrow?

 

[cmann250]

The fact that I had lasik several years ago and my right eye was tweaked a bit more for the sole purpose of shooting probably compounds the problem of cross eye dominance.

As far as the pistol, I probably was pushing the slide up in my makeshift rest, perhaps taking some slop out of it. I don’t have access to any fancy rest, but I’m fairly crafty. If I secure the pistol by the frame, aim the sights, and pull the trigger, that should take the human grip element out of it.

My practice the other day was on a 12” steel plate and not paper. I couldn’t say what the group size was, but my hit rate was drastically improved.

I have more work to do.


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[churchmouse]

The fact that I had lasik several years ago and my right eye was tweaked a bit more for the sole purpose of shooting probably compounds the problem of cross eye dominance.

As far as the pistol, I probably was pushing the slide up in my makeshift rest, perhaps taking some slop out of it. I don’t have access to any fancy rest, but I’m fairly crafty. If I secure the pistol by the frame, aim the sights, and pull the trigger, that should take the human grip element out of it.

My practice the other day was on a 12” steel plate and not paper. I couldn’t say what the group size was, but my hit rate was drastically improved.

I have more work to do.


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Paint the plate. Take a pic of your hits and repaint it. Easy peasy.

If you shoot the other guns well enough then yes it is in the gun. Something about it is not acceptable to your shooting style or mechanically off.
You might be beating a dead horse here. If AllenM tells me one of mine is off then I get into it. Because I will bet you lunch there is something off in it.

 

[cmann250]

Paint the plate. Take a pic of your hits and repaint it. Easy peasy.

If you shoot the other guns well enough then yes it is in the gun. Something about it is not acceptable to your shooting style or mechanically off.
You might be beating a dead horse here. If AllenM tells me one of mine is off then I get into it. Because I will bet you lunch there is something off in it.

By that, it’s mark a group 12” tall and 6” wide trending left with an estimated 85% hit rate over 100 rounds. I just like measuring and 10 round groups more.

And I’m not doubting Allen one bit. I just want to understand why it seemed to do well off a rest.


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[churchmouse]

By that, it’s mark a group 12” tall and 6” wide trending left with an estimated 85% hit rate over 100 rounds. I just like measuring and 10 round groups more.

And I’m not doubting Allen one bit. I just want to understand why it seemed to do well off a rest.


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Of course. The search for answers and knowledge. I just dont have that kind of time/patience I guess. If I have 1 gun in the group of several that is acting up then I get right in it. If something is askew then nothing good comes of continuing to run it. JMHO of course.
I have had similar issues and once investigated the answers are found.

 

[hps]

I could care less about group sizes, I'm notta bullseye shooter and have noticed when i try to shoot at paper and try to get the best group ALL MY handguns have issues LOL.
BUT, If Allen says there is an issue, there's prolly an issue.

 

[BE Mike]

Of course. The search for answers and knowledge. I just dont have that kind of time/patience I guess. If I have 1 gun in the group of several that is acting up then I get right in it. If something is askew then nothing good comes of continuing to run it. JMHO of course.
I have had similar issues and once investigated the answers are found.

Having been a bullseye pistol competitor in a past life, I agree. I started out with a Colt Gold Cup Series 70. When I didn't have access to a Ransom Rest, I only tried to judge the quality of my pistols/ ammo combination by calling my slow fire shots at 50 yds. When my skill increased and I could mostly reasonably call my shots, I decided that I was outshooting the gun/ ammo. That's the first time I ventured into the custom .45 auto world. The custom pistol made all the difference. After I got a Ransom Rest and affixed it to a very solid base, it really opened up my eyes. Besides mechanical accuracy, a good trigger and quality sights are essential for decent accuracy (shootability). These days most out-of-the-box mass produced pistols are up to the low demands placed upon them by the average gun owner. Only serious competitors and serious hunters demand more than the run-of-the-mill mass produced handguns. I see it every day in current gun magazines, like American Handgunner. The accuracy test distances for guns, are much shorter than days gone by. Most any production pistol should be able to shoot one hole groups with quality ammo at those short distances. If not, there indeed may be something in the pistol or ammo that needs correction. 1911's do lend themselves to accurizing more than many other designs. Even though I'm long retired from serious competitive shooting, I still demand a certain accuracy. For me it is a fist size group at 25 yards, standing, two-handed, unsupported. My latest 1911 just needed a new fitted barrel bushing and Cylinder & Slide hammer/ sear set to get it there. Hope your solution (if not shooter induced) is just as simple.

 

[churchmouse]

Having been a bullseye pistol competitor in a past life, I agree. I started out with a Colt Gold Cup Series 70. When I didn't have access to a Ransom Rest, I only tried to judge the quality of my pistols/ ammo combination by calling my slow fire shots at 50 yds. When my skill increased and I could mostly reasonably call my shots, I decided that I was outshooting the gun/ ammo. That's the first time I ventured into the custom .45 auto world. The custom pistol made all the difference. After I got a Ransom Rest and affixed it to a very solid base, it really opened up my eyes. Besides mechanical accuracy, a good trigger and quality sights are essential for decent accuracy (shootability). These days most out-of-the-box mass produced pistols are up to the low demands placed upon them by the average gun owner. Only serious competitors and serious hunters demand more than the run-of-the-mill mass produced handguns. I see it every day in current gun magazines, like American Handgunner. The accuracy test distances for guns, are much shorter than days gone by. Most any production pistol should be able to shoot one hole groups with quality ammo at those short distances. If not, there indeed may be something in the pistol or ammo that needs correction. 1911's do lend themselves to accurizing more than many other designs. Even though I'm long retired from serious competitive shooting, I still demand a certain accuracy. For me it is a fist size group at 25 yards, standing, two-handed, unsupported. My latest 1911 just needed a new fitted barrel bushing and Cylinder & Slide hammer/ sear set to get it there. Hope your solution (if not shooter induced) is just as simple.

Every production gun I have owned since 2011 gets at least what you listed. A hand fit bushing and at least Cylinder and Slide ignition parts. EGW is my 1st choice. Everything internal is polished. Fit is checked and dealt with if need be. Lock up is addressed. Sights are a personal thing and my aging eyes need a bit of help here. The slide is machined to reduce the transition of the disconnector. Some are lightened up (slides) with the exception of the Dan Wesson commander I recently acquired. I am on the fence with that one. Winter is coming. We will see.

 

[AllenM]

After rereading my previous response I could have worded it better. Shorter version is shooting unsupported at 25 yards I expect a group of 3" or less to be acceptable accuracy with a known bullet gun combo.
This Colt was a struggle to shoot under 5" at 25 yards.

There may be better ammo but I was using what I know to be accurate in my guns.

Another observation and I don't know if this applies to any body else, but being left eye dominant I have tried right eye with my pcc and a red dot. My right eye does not focus as clear no matter what I try. Could just be that eye though.

One advantage to shooting cross eye is I have to turn my head to the side enough I don't have to deal with double vision. I didn't know that was a thing until trying to shoot with my right eye.

 

[BE Mike]

Every production gun I have owned since 2011 gets at least what you listed. A hand fit bushing and at least Cylinder and Slide ignition parts. EGW is my 1st choice. Everything internal is polished. Fit is checked and dealt with if need be. Lock up is addressed. Sights are a personal thing and my aging eyes need a bit of help here. The slide is machined to reduce the transition of the disconnector. Some are lightened up (slides) with the exception of the Dan Wesson commander I recently acquired. I am on the fence with that one. Winter is coming. We will see.

You and Allen have experience and skills. I'm pretty much a kitchen table gunsmith (shade tree mechanic). When I realize that I'm way over my head, I defer to others in your class. Also, these days, my old fingers can only take so much strain and intricate work before rebelling.

 

[Doublehelix]

You and Allen have experience and skills. I'm pretty much a kitchen table gunsmith (shade tree mechanic). When I realize that I'm way over my head, I defer to others in your class. Also, these days, my old fingers can only take so much strain and intricate work before rebelling.

Agreed 100%. I enjoy tinkering, but leave the heavy lifting to my betters. I am with you on the rebelling fingers as well. Dang, getting older is not for sissies.

 

[cmann250]

AllenM is working on it. New barrel/bushing and trigger work.

Allen, feel free to post up your findings if something is off. I’m curious.


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[churchmouse]

AllenM is working on it. New barrel/bushing and trigger work.

Allen, feel free to post up your findings if something is off. I’m curious.


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I will be out Allens way in a day or so.I might stop in and annoy him. And look at your gun.

 

[AllenM]

AllenM is working on it. New barrel/bushing and trigger work.

Allen, feel free to post up your findings if something is off. I’m curious.


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Will do,
I test fired it Sunday with my 200gr semi wad cutter loads that are accurate in everything I have shot them in so far. I also took my personal 1911 to make certain it wasn't me.
Nothing has changed on the Colt except that it was hitting low but the groups were still 6" while 3 of the 5 out of mine were touching and I slightly pulled 2 rounds but still under 3" in my gun.

KART Match gunsmith fit barrel and bushing coming and EGW ignition kit. It is not coming home until it is dead on. My opinion is, it's a shame Colt puts the label Competition on the slide.

You will be pleased when all is said and done.

 

[Floivanus]

I am cross eye dominant, I shoot with both eyes open myself. No matter if it's irons or a scope. Shift you head over, and maybe adjust your stance.

I’ve got an easier solution...

Im left hand dominant, right eye dominant. I just shoot right handed 90% of the time, I shoot left handed just to train it so I can if It’s ever needed.