A BIG -1 for the EPD

[sbcman]

TF, between this and the St. Mary's fiasco, one inevitable conclusion has been reached:

It's time to get out of Evansville.

Give Spencer County country a try. Quite, peaceful, few local LEOs and you can still get to IDPA matches at Redbrush in 25 minutes

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Like it or not, an officer has a position of authority. If all he has to go on at the time is that you are suspended, he had every reason to ask to see your wifes license to verify that she was a licensed driver. Your tone can set the rest of thr traffic stop. If you act like a billy badass, you are going to get a ticket. Period!

I think the biggest problem with the anti-LEO vibe has nothing to do with the few corrupt officers that you read about all across the country, and more to the fact that some people have absolutly NO RESPECT for authority.

My biggest problem is not with the bad seed "corrupt" cops, it is with the cops that are just overgrown playground bullies. I do not respect anyone who believes their authority trumps my rights. I don't live in Nazi Germany and I expect that most people don't want to. We are not papered by the government for them to keep track of us, that is a document for a specific purpose IE driving a vehicle, she was not driving, and not commiting a crime, therefore she should not have had to identify herself.

You know what happend to all of the cop cars with "To serve and protect" written on them? It was written over with "Obey my Authority".

 

[Titanium_Frost]

TF, between this and the St. Mary's fiasco, one inevitable conclusion has been reached:

It's time to get out of Evansville.

Give Spencer County country a try. Quite, peaceful, few local LEOs and you can still get to IDPA matches at Redbrush in 25 minutes

Thats not that bad of an idea actually. Give me a ring if you know of any good properties

 

[rmabrey]

 

[ATM]

Like it or not, an officer has a position of authority. If all he has to go on at the time is that you are suspended, he had every reason to ask to see your wifes license to verify that she was a licensed driver.

Sorry, but no, she was not being investigated for anything.

Your tone can set the rest of thr traffic stop. If you act like a billy badass, you are going to get a ticket. Period!

He didn't threaten to whoop the officer's butt, simply told his wife that she didn't need to produce a license.

Since when does knowing the law make one a badass?

I'll take the ticket - just don't disarm me and then wave my handgun around like a lunatic.

 

[Chesh97]

My biggest problem is not with the bad seed "corrupt" cops, it is with the cops that are just overgrown playground bullies. I do not respect anyone who believes their authority trumps my rights. I don't live in Nazi Germany and I expect that most people don't want to. We are not papered by the government for them to keep track of us, that is a document for a specific purpose IE driving a vehicle, she was not driving, and not commiting a crime, therefore she should not have had to identify herself.

You know what happend to all of the cop cars with "To serve and protect" written on them? It was written over with "Obey my Authority".

You are correct. However, since the person driving was showing as suspended, he wanted to see if she was able to drive the vehicle. I guess he shouldn't have gotten all nazi on them, and just called for a wrecker to tow the vehicle instead.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

The knife incident happens a lot. They generally set it in the car or stick it in their pocket and forget. Had it happen to me in Gatlinburg and in Evansville.





So what your saying is, bring to light this type of situation so that we now have a department policy to search the vehicles of individuals lawfully carrying. No thanks

Exactly what I was thinking. We have ENOUGH 4th amendment problems in IN as it is...

 

[ATM]

You are correct. However, since the person driving was showing as suspended, he wanted to see if she was able to drive the vehicle. I guess he shouldn't have gotten all nazi on them, and just called for a wrecker to tow the vehicle instead.

He hasn't been given the authority to preemptively verify that a driver is licensed without some other PC or RAS of an infraction.

Try again.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You are correct. However, since the person driving was showing as suspended, he wanted to see if she was able to drive the vehicle. I guess he shouldn't have gotten all nazi on them, and just called for a wrecker to tow the vehicle instead.

I have been stopped plenty of times with other people in the car, its been 50/50 whether or not they ask for their ID as well. You know good and well it was not so she could drive it. They asked for hers when they asked for mine, they weren't even sure if I was the person who had the suspended license. I could have let someone borrow my truck.

BTW they never did look at her license and they didn't argue with me after I said that. And all I said was (to my wife) "You don't have to show them that".

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If no one bothers to fight the battles because people like you tell them they'll always lose, how are we supposed to win the war? Or is that the point?

Why not? Because I don't have to.

It's "just reality" that LE is continually attempting to circumvent their legal restrictions and coerce the public into self-incrimination? That's supposed to make me feel better? Because it doesn't. How in the world can you expect me to trust an individual/agency that employs deception and manipulation as standard operating procedure?

I am out of rep, but this is better than I could have said myself. Someone get this girl some rep.

 

[Roadie]

" My wife had her pistol and I often carry a rifle or a shotgun in the back but well within reach. If it were for "officer safety" they did a retarded job because AFTER disarming me they let me back into my vehicle that was not searched, where I had MORE WEAPONS! "

I agree with you 100 percent on this one ! It's mistakes like this that get officers hurt or killed ! You need to go to the EPD Field Training Officer and present it just this way. There's a valuable lesson for the officers to learn here.

So are you suggesting that you would also ask the wife, who wasnt driving, to step out of the car and demand her license and frisk her as well, even through she was not the subject of the stop?

 

[gunman41mag]

Hope you're not targeted, cause the LEO had to drive to your house to return his ill gotten knife ???

 

[Kutnupe14]

Sorry, but no, she was not being investigated for anything.

No she is not, but it's a cool move by the officer. Since the OP was suspended , and thus unable to legally drive, there are two options: tow the vehicle, or confirm that the other passenger is a valid driver to take custody of the vehicle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I just looked up why I had a suspended Lic and it was a clerical error by- you guessed it, the EPD! I was in a wreck a few months back and apparently it was written down that I didn't have insurance! TOTAL HOGWASH!!!!!!

I call BS on a clerical error by EPD. If you're in an accident and a report is taken, it is your duty to provide proof of insurance withing 10 days via a SR21. Any reasonably competent insurance agent would take care of this for you. City and county departments don't verify insurance info, that is done by ISP.
As for your license being suspended, it's a solid stop. You weren't pulled over on a whim, you were pulled over for DWS, after a routine check of your tags.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that BMV works are far from being members of Mensa, and at the end of the day the responsibility for the validity of your license rests with you.
Continuing, I have already indicated that the officer most likely wanted your wife's DL so that she could take command of the vehicle. You interjecting with a "don't show him squat," in what was probably a beneficial gesture, towards you, by the officer, only creates needless tension. You could have just as easily asked "why" he wanted to see her DL versus getting a bit snippy.
I'm not sure why this story strikes me as odd, but it does. I'm sensing hyperbole. The narrative makes no mention of who drove the vehicle after the stop. Officers rarely let suspended drivers drive away from a traffic stop especially when there is a potential valid driver present (liability). Am I to believe that after all this, the officer allowed you, confirmed DWS, drive from the scene of the stop? Filling in the gaps would be appreciated.

 

[WebHobbit]

You know I get that cops have a difficult & stressful job but a lot of them sure do seem to have an attitude.

I think all this " over stepping" points to a lack of adequate training. They need more and better training both in LTCH law AND in safe gun handling across MANY types of handguns (as demonstrated by this cop fumbling around with the 1911).

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I call BS on a clerical error by EPD.

As has been discussed, several times in this thread.

If you're in an accident and a report is taken, it is your duty to provide proof of insurance withing 10 days via a SR21. Any reasonably competent insurance agent would take care of this for you. City and county departments don't verify insurance info, that is done by ISP.

Yes, once again I have to do legwork when I tried during the accident to make sure everything was ok and done correctly so I wouldn't have problems like this down the line

As for your license being suspended, it's a solid stop. You weren't pulled over on a whim, you were pulled over for DWS, after a routine check of your tags.

I believe that is crap and an invasion protected by the 4th amendment. They searched my info without my permission just to see if I'm up to snuff. BTW a check of my tags only tells them about who the vehicle is registered too, not about the actual driver of the vehicle per se.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that BMV works are far from being members of Mensa, and at the end of the day the responsibility for the validity of your license rests with you.

Yep.

Continuing, I have already indicated that the officer most likely wanted your wife's DL so that she could take command of the vehicle.

NO NO NO. This is not how it happened at all! I know you are a cop and trying to make them look like the good guys here but you know good and well that they ask for ID on everyone they can, they already randomly checked the tags on a vehicle that was not doing anything wrong as all of the additional charges were AFTER they decided to pull me over and in fact I was already pulling onto a sidestreet after they had been following me because I hate cops that trail you for miles trying to get you to make mistakes. I believe this falls into Kirk's term of "Baiting".

You interjecting with a "don't show him squat," in what was probably a beneficial gesture, towards you, by the officer, only creates needless tension. You could have just as easily asked "why" he wanted to see her DL versus getting a bit snippy.

No, read my post to the other cop, I explained that I said word for word "you don't have to show him that" Earlier I was paraphrasing. And it wasn't so he didn't have to tow it, there was no reason in the world to tow it even if there wasn't a valid driver in the vehicle because it was parked in a legitimate spot.

I'm not sure why this story strikes me as odd, but it does. I'm sensing hyperbole. The narrative makes no mention of who drove the vehicle after the stop. Officers rarely let suspended drivers drive away from a traffic stop especially when there is a potential valid driver present (liability). Am I to believe that after all this, the officer allowed you, confirmed DWS, drive from the scene of the stop? Filling in the gaps would be appreciated.

No, I did not drive away from the scene. I got out and then reloaded my 1911, looked for my missing knife, and then let my wife drive me home so she could go to the store. It disturbs me that cops even on here won't cross the Thin Blue Line and buddy up against the citizenry in cases like this.

Do you think I should have been taken from my vehicle and patted down just because I was carrying a gun to which I already gave him my LTCH?

You know I get that cops have a difficult & stressful job but a lot of them sure do seem to have an attitude.

I think all this " over stepping" points to a lack of adequate training. They need more and better training both in LTCH law AND in safe gun handling across MANY types of handguns (as demonstrated by this cop fumbling around with the 1911).

I would agree to some extent but I think it goes into the whole "Cop mentality" thing. Many are overgrown playground bullies, high and mighty with all of their authority. The problem I see is a lack of respect toward the public in general due in some part to them only seeing the dregs of it day in and day out. Many citizens only contact with cops comes from traffic stops when the cops are jacked up on adreneline and they are trained to take control of situations and exert their authority to do so especially when someone knows what they do and don't have to do.

I want to re-itterate what 88gt said "How can we trust an organization whose basic operating principles are deceit and manipulation of the subjects they encounter?"

 

[serpicostraight]

Like it or not, an officer has a position of authority. If all he has to go on at the time is that you are suspended, he had every reason to ask to see your wifes license to verify that she was a licensed driver. Your tone can set the rest of thr traffic stop. If you act like a billy badass, you are going to get a ticket. Period!

I think the biggest problem with the anti-LEO vibe has nothing to do with the few corrupt officers that you read about all across the country, and more to the fact that some people have absolutly NO RESPECT for authority.

few bad apples. do they teach you guys to say that every chance you get hoping you might convince someone?

 

[woowoo2]

This thread is a good example of keeping track of things yourself.
You should check your driving record every once and awhile.
Here is a link to check it for Indiana.
https://myweb.in.gov/BMV/mybmv/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=/BMV/mybmv/MyDriver/DriverRecord.aspx

 

[88GT]

No she is not, but it's a cool move by the officer. Since the OP was suspended , and thus unable to legally drive, there are two options: tow the vehicle, or confirm that the other passenger is a valid driver to take custody of the vehicle.

Okay, let's assume that was his intent (I tend to doubt it) and he simply wanted to verify her license status so he could save them the hassle of towing the car.

Why can't he just ask if she has one first, and then politely make a request to eyeball it so he can confirm? Why does it always have to go straight to the authority-plebe relationship? For all the talk of who starts out being a dick first, in my book, using authority where it's not needed comes pretty darn close. You know the old saying, you catch more flies with honey.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

The problem with threads like these is you are always only getting one side of the story. I am not saying what OP said was factually incorrect in any way, but it can be fairly easy to skew the events in your favor if no one is on the other side to give their half. Again, I am not saying that happened in this case, just that I generally take things I dont know first hand with a grain of salt.

ETA: I believe they searched me on purpose in retaliation for previous encounters and not just for "officer safety". I have been on the side of the road with cops several times while openly carrying and I have never had this happen.

How many previous encounters have you had with the police? I don't know you or the situation but if you have a reputation with the cops, that may be your problem.