Another problem as I see it is that there is no severe penalty for..............

[Itchytriggerfinger]

All generalizations are false, even this one

"All cats are black on the dark." - Dad 1991

 

[churchmouse]

In all of our discussions that are about religion one thing we have to remember. And it is important.
We are allowed this topic in the open Forum by the grace of the site owner. He will not allow this on any of the other forums he admins. It was here when he arrived and we have kept it civil. And we will keep it civil. Period.
If we stray and disparage anyone's personal beliefs I will shut the thread and perma ban said member. It is that simple.
If I allow these threads to get wonky we will loose this topic. Again, that simple.

Carry on.

 

[flightsimmer]

Now! Shall we get back to the original topic.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Now! Shall we get back to the original topic.

Which is criminal penalties for lying on people. I think civil redresses are the way to go, depending on the harm to the victim... unless, that lie causes actual physical harm to another. Then I could potentially see criminal penalties.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

It's called libel and/or slander, and there are already laws relating to this. What else are we going to make illegal?

Like many other laws, it simply isn't enforced. This is one I'd love to see enforce more often, and harshly.


Yet somehow, we need more "common sense" laws...


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

Which is criminal penalties for lying on people. I think civil redresses are the way to go, depending on the harm to the victim... unless, that lie causes actual physical harm to another. Then I could potentially see criminal penalties.

[/FONT]



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Sadly, lawsuits are the way to handle it these days, but I hat that. It just leads to more, and more suits, and to those suits becoming more frivolous. We've all read the stories of the stupid crap people are getting sued for. A law is a law and should be handled in criminal court unless absolutely necessary.

I'd love to say just put the complainants in the squared ring, but often the liar is the better fighter. [/FONT]

 

[worddoer]

The the OP...

You are assuming that individual behavior can be governed...but it cannot. You will never be able to create enough laws to govern all the actions of everyone. A representative republic will only survive as long as it citizens realize they must govern themselves. Currently, that idea is eschewed and deemed offensive.

The only reason we were able to start a self governing nation is that most of the citizenry were self governing individuals at its founding. Even our founding fathers realized this fact. The condition of a republic is a reflection of the heart of its citizens.

Roughly 250 years later the majority of our citizenry have changed and are no longer self governing, but rather they ask the government to rule over them. I don't believe there is any one thing that has caused this. There are many ingredients that have created this witches brew of self enslavement.

It is my personal belief that most of the issues we are facing in our country right now is rooted in the denial of this fundamental fact. Sadly, I believe that we have gone down the road of self enslavement so far, we can no longer turn back. Now we are simply arguing over the degree of self enslavement we are willing to tolerate.

"A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader". Samuel Adams

"To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea." James Madison

"Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics" John Adams

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom." Benjamin Franklin

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue." Samuel Adams

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

Oddly enough, the clip below is quite interesting. It has a grain of truth that very few have ever thought of, willingly giving away freedom. I am not sure if the film writers were attempting to sneak some truth into a popular film or if it was just happenstance that this made it into the film...you know...stopped watch being right twice a day and all that. Start around the 1 minute and 30 second mark.

[video=youtube_share;KwjXPA8mZYk]https://youtu.be/KwjXPA8mZYk?t=1m30s[/video]

 

[BugI02]

"With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

*.*

 

[Route 45]

Funny thing about people who want a new hammer to beat their opponents over the head with.
They never consider what will happen when their opponent gets hold of the hammer.

Truth is often in the eye of the beholder.

 

[indiucky]

You haven't put me on ignore yet?

No way...I've never seen someone scream so loud for God as you do....The pain of denying truth hurts...I was there for quite sometime....I hope you get through this dark patch.....The son shaking his fist at his father and denying his authority is as old as life itself....I want you to know that I hear your cry....

I would start with four Greco/Roman Histories that are used by secular scholars around the world to study the Ancient World 2000 years ago....

Luke 1 New International Version (NIV)

Introduction

[FONT=&amp]1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.[/FONT]


Matthew

Mark

Luke

John

These are not religious texts....They are an historical record and were written as an historical record....I hear your cries Itchy....I will not let you down...

Your Avatar gives it away as much as your words....Peace and God's grace be with you sir...Love the Avatar....

I never come in the shop on Monday...For whatever reason I came in and decided to get on INGO....I heard your plea all the way here....


Jesus loves you.....Open your heart and bend His ear...He would love to hear from you...Seriously...The Creator of all that ever was not only knows you but loves you....All of us religious types on here love you too....It's our thing...Part of the pact we make....

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

No way...I've never seen someone scream so loud for God as you do....The pain of denying truth hurts...I was there for quite sometime....I hope you get through this dark patch.....The son shaking his fist at his father and denying his authority is as old as life itself....I want you to know that I hear your cry....



These are not religious texts....They are an historical record and were written as an historical record....I hear your cries Itchy....I will not let you down...

Your Avatar gives it away as much as your words....Peace and God's grace be with you sir...Love the Avatar....



I never come in the shop on Monday...For whatever reason I came in and decided to get on INGO....I heard your plea all the way here....


Jesus loves you.....Open your heart and bend His ear...He would love to hear from you...Seriously...The Creator of all that ever was not only knows you but loves you....All of us religious types on here love you too....It's our thing...Part of the pact we make....

I don't think I'm what you're looking for sir. I appreciate your always generous and kind words but whatever it is you think I am or will potentially be, I assure you, I'm not.

 

[T.Lex]

Going back to the OP, I'm not sure I understand the problem. It sounds like certain INGOers are in favor of additional criminalization of freedom. An Arbiter of Truth could be a dangerous role for America....

 

[churchmouse]

Going back to the OP, I'm not sure I understand the problem. It sounds like certain INGOers are in favor of additional criminalization of freedom. An Arbiter of Truth could be a dangerous role for America....

Post #66.....some are willingly trading off their rights for a false security.

 

[jamil]

Like many other laws, it simply isn't enforced. This is one I'd love to see enforce more often, and harshly.


Yet somehow, we need more "common sense" laws...






Sadly, lawsuits are the way to handle it these days, but I hat that. It just leads to more, and more suits, and to those suits becoming more frivolous. We've all read the stories of the stupid crap people are getting sued for. A law is a law and should be handled in criminal court unless absolutely necessary.

I'd love to say just put the complainants in the squared ring, but often the liar is the better fighter.

I think it's pretty well established that you can't use constitutional freedoms as an excuse to harm people. That's what's meant by protected rights aren't universal. You can't use the 1st amendment to protect you from materially harming someone by lying about them. It's good enough to have a civil court system to help people get justice for being wronged. That's the proper place for this. There are probably some ways to reform the court system to reduce frivolous litigation. And to some extent it works now. A lot of cases get thrown out.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

More government? No thanks.

 

[flightsimmer]

Fox News, "Outnumbered " was discussing this subject of lying around 12:45 pm this afternoon.

 

[IndyTom]

I think there should be more prosecution for knowingly lying. Too many men, for starters, have had their lives ruined by false allegations of sexual misconduct that, while proven to be false, continued to cast a shadow over their lives and livelihoods while the person who accused them walked free.

 

[ghuns]

Another problem as I see it is that there is no severe penalty for..............

People who go to a restaurant and order a big, beautiful rib-eye... Well done.
And when it shows up, a burned cinder of its former glorious self, the person asks the server; uh, miss, could you please bring me some ketchup?

 

[Jag3212323]

It’s my understanding that campaign/political speech was ruled protected speech.

Political speech is protected as long as the opportunity for “equal time” is present. There are rules regulating the sale of airtime to politicians so they can respond to accusations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jamil]

Fox News, "Outnumbered " was discussing this subject of lying around 12:45 pm this afternoon.

I'd like to understand this better. So are you saying you want some jail time, fine, or some kind of penalty for lying? I mean, obviously there's already a severe penalty for perjury. So the scope is something less than lying to Feds, under oath, etcetera. So like just for public statements? Does it include individuals? Like a neighbor tells other neighbors that you've done something really bad in the past that you actually didn't do. Jail? Fine?

We've kinda tossed around some vague ideas, but I think I'd like to know exactly what you think the problem is, that "severe punishment" will solve. At one point you invoked God's law, but I assume you're not talking about fully legislating the 8th/9th commandment (depending on the numbering your church observes). Or, is that what you had in mind?

 

[jamil]

Political speech is protected as long as the opportunity for “equal time” is present. There are rules regulating the sale of airtime to politicians so they can respond to accusations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. I was not aware that this was associated with the "equal time" thing.