Are there any good AKs left?

[kscessnadriver]

-Chrome lining has nothing to do with corrosive ammo. Most AR's are chrome lined too, how much corrosive 556 do you see on the shelves? It helps reduce friction, thus eliminating wear. There is a reason why every other country that fields an AK uses it.
-The OP is asking "are there any good AKs left", not that they're looking for a "budget AK". And even if someone is looking for a budget AK, I wouldn't make the assumption that they do not plan to shoot it a lot. And even if it doesn't see much use, I see no reason to choose a product that won't hold up as well, when a comparably priced options is better and readily available. Read the reports from Battle Field Las Vegas and see how the Cugir built products held up in comparison to Zastava.
-The "non chrome lined barrel is more accurate" shtick is comical to be honest. Even if there is a minute difference between the 2 (most experts agree that there is not), the benefits of chrome far out weigh that of a non lined barrel.
-You are correct, the fcg and magazine is the same. But the muzzle devices are not in some cases (M92 = 26mm), as well as most of the major parts. I would rather have something that is compatible with the 100 million + AK's from around the world, than an odd ball product from the makers of the Koral.

Comical? You think facts are comical? The facts are, a non-chromed barrel that is otherwise identical to a chromed barrel is more accurate. Full stop, Period. To imply most AR's are chrome lined, is also not factual. Maybe 10 years ago, but there is a large number of non-chromed AR barrels now. The reason that every other country uses a chromed barrel versus another process is, because chroming is cheap. I'm not saying chroming is bad, just that it has its trade-offs. The rest is fine and dandy. I'm not going to get in a knock down drag out over this, but to imply that a Zastava product is a sub-par AK, is bull****. Anything out of the Zastava factory beats a US built AK, all day, everyday. IO is junk, Century built is junk, WW was hit/miss as was their successor DDI and so was their successor in PSA. And yes, I'd agree, a VEPR/Saiga is a better rifle than an M70 or WASR, but the value depends on the price. Is a Saiga or VEPR 2x as nice as a WASR/M70, not a chance.

 

[Rebel Jack]

I don't typically consider chrome lining. When I buy ammo, it's typically from box stores like Rural King and Walmart. Red Army Standard, Wolf, --- Bear, etc., none of it's corrosive, and as many ARs i've built, worked on, and been around-I don't see a lot of chrome lining there, either. I know it's an option with some barrel manufacturers, but certainly not common. Maybe it's different for folks that buy really old surplus on the cheap, but I don't see any really old surplus 5.56 that's corrosive. Presumably because we stopped using corrosive primers and powders long before the advent of the .223.

I will say when considering AKs, I take Chrome lining as a given. That's just how it seems to have always been, considering most surplus ammo from the bloc was corrosive. But it's got to be an imported barrel, like the Polish hammer forged and chrome lined ones. From what I understand, American chrome lining's effectiveness has been largely neutered by EPA regulations.

 

[tradertator]

Comical? You think facts are comical? The facts are, a non-chromed barrel that is otherwise identical to a chromed barrel is more accurate. Full stop, Period. To imply most AR's are chrome lined, is also not factual. Maybe 10 years ago, but there is a large number of non-chromed AR barrels now. The reason that every other country uses a chromed barrel versus another process is, because chroming is cheap. I'm not saying chroming is bad, just that it has its trade-offs. The rest is fine and dandy. I'm not going to get in a knock down drag out over this, but to imply that a Zastava product is a sub-par AK, is bull****. Anything out of the Zastava factory beats a US built AK, all day, everyday. IO is junk, Century built is junk, WW was hit/miss as was their successor DDI and so was their successor in PSA. And yes, I'd agree, a VEPR/Saiga is a better rifle than an M70 or WASR, but the value depends on the price. Is a Saiga or VEPR 2x as nice as a WASR/M70, not a chance.

Are you seriously trying to tell me, that you prefer a Yugo because you prefer the accuracy of it's non lined barrel? I'm sorry, but that if that is the case, you are only fooling yourself. If we were talking about precision rifles and you are measuring group sizes with a micrometer, ok.... maybe. But we are talking about a semi automatic carbine. The fact is, this is one of those stupid internet things that are parroted over and over with little basis on fact.

I've owned dozens of AK's over the years, from all over the earth, including Yugos. I have yet to see a Yugo out shoot one due to it's non chrome lined barrel. My first Arsenal was an SGL-31, and the factory test target had one ragged hole. The thing would drive nails, and was every bit as accurate as any AR I've owned. I'm not saying a Yugo couldn't have the same results, but it wouldn't be because the barrel is non lined. Over the course of a summer, I put around 10K rounds of 7N6 through that rifle, and literally couldn't see a change in the rifling. I would be curious to see how a Zastava would have done. I know from going through parts kits over the years: Used Yugo barrels often look like sewer pipes, and chrome lined (Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, E German, Chinese, Hungarian, etc***,) ones hold up much better.

And as far as AR's go, sure. There's a ton of non chrome lined stuff out there for the guy wanting the cheapest product possible. But it purely done to reduce cost. Quality rifles (especially those fielded by professionals like military), treat the barrel with something such as CL, NiCOR, NiTe2, etc..... And the reason American rifle companies are moving to things like melonite instead of chrome is due to EPA restrictions. When Ivan is building a rifle in eastern Europe, he can use good quality toxic chrome, regardless of what the effects are. In the states, we've worked towards more environmentally friendly options.

And as far as American AK's go, didn't say to buy one. I recommended a Cugir built rifle on a budget, and an Arsenal SLR if you can afford it. Saiga and VEPR are great choices too if you can find a decent deal on one, and feel like messing with the conversion. Both IO and Century's track record speak for themselves. Been there, done that, learned my lesson the hard way years ago.

 

[Vigilant]

I don't typically consider chrome lining. When I buy ammo, it's typically from box stores like Rural King and Walmart. Red Army Standard, Wolf, --- Bear, etc., none of it's corrosive, and as many ARs i've built, worked on, and been around-I don't see a lot of chrome lining there, either. I know it's an option with some barrel manufacturers, but certainly not common. Maybe it's different for folks that buy really old surplus on the cheap, but I don't see any really old surplus 5.56 that's corrosive. Presumably because we stopped using corrosive primers and powders long before the advent of the .223.

I will say when considering AKs, I take Chrome lining as a given. That's just how it seems to have always been, considering most surplus ammo from the bloc was corrosive. But it's got to be an imported barrel, like the Polish hammer forged and chrome lined ones. From what I understand, American chrome lining's effectiveness has been largely neutered by EPA regulations.

I assume you've never worked on a Mil-Spec AR then? Every Colt M4 6920 and 6940 is chrome lined. I guess they aren't that common though? BCM is another of the uncommon chrome lined AR's.

 

[tradertator]

I don't typically consider chrome lining. When I buy ammo, it's typically from box stores like Rural King and Walmart. Red Army Standard, Wolf, --- Bear, etc., none of it's corrosive, and as many ARs i've built, worked on, and been around-I don't see a lot of chrome lining there, either. I know it's an option with some barrel manufacturers, but certainly not common. Maybe it's different for folks that buy really old surplus on the cheap, but I don't see any really old surplus 5.56 that's corrosive. Presumably because we stopped using corrosive primers and powders long before the advent of the .223.

I will say when considering AKs, I take Chrome lining as a given. That's just how it seems to have always been, considering most surplus ammo from the bloc was corrosive. But it's got to be an imported barrel, like the Polish hammer forged and chrome lined ones. From what I understand, American chrome lining's effectiveness has been largely neutered by EPA regulations.

Once again, barrels are not chorme lined purely for corrosive ammo. It reduces friction, thus reducing heat and wear on the barrel. Where you're going to see a HUGE difference is with erosion inside the throat of the barrel. Probably not a big deal if you don't plan to shoot the firearm a ton, but it's a must on a hard use rifle. That's why you see them in all mi-spec barrels, even though the countries use non corrosive ammo.

 

[Rebel Jack]

I assume you've never worked on a Mil-Spec AR then? Every Colt M4 6920 and 6940 is chrome lined. I guess they aren't that common though? BCM is another of the uncommon chrome lined AR's.

You would be correct in that assumption. I am not a gunsmith, operating a business. So the vast majority of rifles I work on are my own builds, and repairs to the tifles of my friends and co-workers. None of which feel the need or desire to spend $900-$1000 on a rifle they have JIC for home defense or as an occasional weekend plinker. And as stated, chrome lining is for heavy use rifles and can negatively impact accuracy. So JIC home defense and accurate plinking are kinda out, huh?

Regardless, Chrome lining in my experience, and those I associate with, has long been attributed with the use of corrosive ammunition. So that's what we associate with. Average Joe AR owner that uses said rifle for the reasons prescribed above, has other financial responsibilities in his household and family. He isn't out there dropping a thousand rounds at the range every weekend and a simple AR barrel is pretty cheap and readily available, should he or she ever decide they need to replace theirs.

 

[Vigilant]

Nevermind

 

[DapperDan]

Back on topic for the PO, if you can find a solid wasr for half the price of an arsenal, then I'd jump on it. Since you've never owned one, why spend your max limit on something you're unsure of? Some people don't like AKs for whatever reason, I'm assuming mainly because they're weirdos...I have a wasr and a milled arsenal slr101s, and the only thing on the arsenal that blows me away is the trigger. The wasr runs just as reliable and is accurate enough to where I'd have no problem using it to defend myself. It's really up to you but if you can find a good wasr I don't think you can go wrong with the price and reliability. Hope this helps