California NAACP wants to remove 'The Star-Spangled Banner' as national anthem

[1DOWN4UP]

South Africa is now going down the crapper too...damn white farmers.Does the toilets really spin the opposite direction south of the Equator?

 

[Kutnupe14]

That is nonsense. There is no difference in wanting to kill those in the Corps of Colonial Marines than wanting to kill the British soldiers they were with. You can try to twist it however you like to fit your view that this is some deep seated racism, but there is very little to back up your claim.

Anyone fighting against the United States was an enemy. The reason they did so was irrelevant. Key wasn't referring to hunting down escaped slaves, and as I said, you have to try pretty hard to spin his words as racist.

What do you say of the blacks who fought for the US in that war? Looks like there were a lot of them, and they even fought against those that fought for the Brits.

Black Soldier and Sailors in the War | War of 1812 | PBS

History is filled with instances of people fighting against their interests. Custer had Native Americans that served with him too, and he waged what could arguably be considered a genocidal campaign against them. And many were simply lied to. American slaves were promised that if they fought with the US, they'd get freedom, and that rarely occurred.

As far you saying there's no difference, between how Corps of Colonial Marines and British soldiers. That's laughable, based alone on the idea of armed black men raising arms against white people. There was a significant difference between the perception of the two.

 

[Kutnupe14]

uhm... I thought I was clear. People in this country who have descended from imported slaves are often better off because of the suffering their ancestors went through than if they still remained in Africa.

i don't think I could have been any more clear. If you would like to make a counter argument, please feel free. No need to make your point by attempting inferences on my statement

but look at Zimbabwe. Sooo much better now that colonialism ended, isn't it?

If you drove a person around for 20 years, and then one day said, "I'm leaving," and tossed them the keys and told them drive themselves, how well do you think they do? But hey, I get it. It was a good thing that black people were slaves. Heck it's even better when white people are in charge, look at Zimbabwe.

#privilegenahnosuchthing

 

[Cygnus]

Ethiopia was never colonized.......


Somebody call sally struthers and tell her to put down the fork.

Too late! ("Jabba Solo Wookie....")

 

[1DOWN4UP]

If you drove a person around for 20 years, and then one day said, "I'm leaving," and tossed them the keys and told them drive themselves, how well do you think they do? But hey, I get it. It was a good thing that black people were slaves. Heck it's even better when white people are in charge, look at Zimbabwe.

#privilegenahnosuchthing

Mugabe and the "War Veterans??????" Kut,you are a funny funny man.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Mugabe and the "War Veterans??????" Kut,you are a funny funny man.

Yeah I am having a real hard time with that one too

" Gee, I have not driven the country for 20 years, I do not know what to do. Maybe I will take everything away from the productive peopl and be a dictator! "

Let me guess, the Cubans had not driven a country in a while either. Or the Chinese.

The soft bigotry of low expectations.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah I am having a real hard time with that one too

What, why slaves would want to be free?

 

[KLB]

History is filled with instances of people fighting against their interests. Custer had Native Americans that served with him too, and he waged what could arguably be considered a genocidal campaign against them. And many were simply lied to. American slaves were promised that if they fought with the US, they'd get freedom, and that rarely occurred.

As far you saying there's no difference, between how Corps of Colonial Marines and British soldiers. That's laughable, based alone on the idea of armed black men raising arms against white people. There was a significant difference between the perception of the two.

So please point to where there is a differentiation in the words of that poem.

And where are the foes that so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war & the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save—the hireling & slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free & the home of the brave.

The verse is about the British, their mercenaries and the slave Colonial Marines. It doesn't single out the slaves in any manner, but that doesn't stop some from insinuating that it does.

Key was celebrating the failure of the British and the survival of Fort McHenry. That doesn't mean some won't try to twist the fact that the word slave appears to mean that Key was talking about slaves in general and how they should be treated.

 

[Alpo]

South Africa is now going down the crapper too...damn white farmers.Does the toilets really spin the opposite direction south of the Equator?

Toilets can be designed to spin clockwise or counter-clockwise.

The Boer's were among the most extreme racists on the planet. They believed God put black people on earth to serve them; that blacks were a lower form and not human. If you find something admirable in the Boers, please write a nice article about it. Such articles are in very short supply.

 

[printcraft]

Too late! ("Jabba Solo Wookie....")

Dang.

Oh Wakanda was never colonized either!

 

[hoosierdoc]

What, why slaves would want to be free?

kut, we know you're not an idiot. So the only explanation as to why you keep making these absurd leaps from our statements attempting to slam our character is that you are intentionally trying to start something.

Stop it.

 

[Leadeye]

Toilets can be designed to spin clockwise or counter-clockwise.

The Boer's were among the most extreme racists on the planet. They believed God put black people on earth to serve them; that blacks were a lower form and not human. If you find something admirable in the Boers, please write a nice article about it. Such articles are in very short supply.

If you encounter any Boers

You really must not loot 'em

And if you wish to leave these shores,

For pity's sake don't shoot 'em.

Rule 303.

 

[RugerRog]

[FONT=&amp]From [/FONT]http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm
[FONT=&amp]
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
[/FONT]No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:[FONT=&amp]
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
[/FONT]
Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3
● Francis Scott Key describes the British as arrogant and boastful in the lyrics 'that band who so vauntingly swore'
● He is venting his anger at the British with the "foul footsteps' pollution" lyrics inferring that the British poisoned the ground on which they walked
● But the poison and corruption had been washed away by the blood of the British

● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "the hireling " refers to the British use of Mercenaries (German Hessians) in the American War of Independence
● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "...and slave" is a direct reference to the British practice of Impressment (kidnapping American seamen and forcing them into service on British man-of war ships). This was a Important cause of the War of 1812

● Francis Scott Key then describes the Star Spangled Banner as a symbol of triumph over all adversity
● Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3

 

[printcraft]

kut, we know you're not an idiot. So the only explanation as to why you keep making these absurd leaps from our statements attempting to slam our character is that you are intentionally trying to start something.

Stop it.

 

[Woobie]

[FONT=&amp]From [/FONT]http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm
[FONT=&amp]
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
[/FONT]No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:[FONT=&amp]
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
[/FONT]
Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3
● Francis Scott Key describes the British as arrogant and boastful in the lyrics 'that band who so vauntingly swore'
● He is venting his anger at the British with the "foul footsteps' pollution" lyrics inferring that the British poisoned the ground on which they walked
● But the poison and corruption had been washed away by the blood of the British

● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "the hireling " refers to the British use of Mercenaries (German Hessians) in the American War of Independence
● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "...and slave" is a direct reference to the British practice of Impressment (kidnapping American seamen and forcing them into service on British man-of war ships). This was a Important cause of the War of 1812

● Francis Scott Key then describes the Star Spangled Banner as a symbol of triumph over all adversity
● Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3

Those are what is known as facts. They have no place in this discussion. It's better just to get dog-whistled and scream about privilege.

 

[amboy49]

I’ll admit I read the first 8-9 pages of this thread, got bored and skipped to the last page - so I may have missed some really important arguing points. (Wish I could call them debating points). Apparently many want to remove all of the Confederate statues throughout the land, and many are apparently now arguing to remove/replace the national anthem.

All of these discussions re: rascism and the varying nuances seem pointless. Folks on both sides of the issue cite the extreme(s). However, it would seem those who want to continue to attempt to assign blame and impose guilt care not a whit about moving forward instead of chastising forerunners and their actions while trying to establish the moral high ground, and berating any who would try to move the dialogue into the positive present rather than dwell in the past.

These discussions, in whatever format, seem to end with amazing similarity. Nothing settled, nothing improved - continued blame and continued lack of feeling responsible for the present day societal issues due to 200 yr old actions. “He meant this, they said that, we know why you still feel that way, you have no idea because you’ve never experienced my problems due to your white privilege.”

 

[jamil]

South Africa is now going down the crapper too...damn white farmers.Does the toilets really spin the opposite direction south of the Equator?

Toilets can be designed to spin clockwise or counter-clockwise.

Yes. but all else equal, it's true. SmarterEveryday did a video on that which demonstrates the phenomenon and explains it. Pretty cool.

The Truth About Toilet Swirl - Smarter Every Day & Veritasium ? Smarter Every Day

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

[FONT=&]From [/FONT]http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm
[FONT=&]
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
[/FONT]No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:[FONT=&]
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
[/FONT]
Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3
● Francis Scott Key describes the British as arrogant and boastful in the lyrics 'that band who so vauntingly swore'
● He is venting his anger at the British with the "foul footsteps' pollution" lyrics inferring that the British poisoned the ground on which they walked
● But the poison and corruption had been washed away by the blood of the British

● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "the hireling " refers to the British use of Mercenaries (German Hessians) in the American War of Independence
● The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "...and slave" is a direct reference to the British practice of Impressment (kidnapping American seamen and forcing them into service on British man-of war ships). This was a Important cause of the War of 1812

● Francis Scott Key then describes the Star Spangled Banner as a symbol of triumph over all adversity
● Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3

Now that's interesting. I knew about them capturing sailors and forcing them to serve but I'd have never made that connection. I guess I too suffer with the lens that colors every reference to slavery as being African slavery only.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Now that's interesting. I knew about them capturing sailors and forcing them to serve but I'd have made that connection. I guess I too suffer with the lens that colors every reference to slavery as being African slavery only.

plenty of Caribbean islanders were grabbed for slavery also

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

plenty of Caribbean islanders were grabbed for slavery also

Sure. And slavery continues today. Seems like I'd read where there are more people in the sex slave trade now than there ever were in the US (African slave trade) combined. I'm not ranking any thing just commenting on the immensity of the ongoing travesty.

Now this is just accusations but it passed through my news feed and seems to corroborate the seemingly ubiquitousness of this type of slavery.

Former 'Smallville' Actress Allegedly Second In Command Of Sex Cult | Daily Wire