Carbine Clinic (Rifle 223) - May 28th - Bedford

[Hop]

I'll scroll through my videos and try to put some on YouTube for you guys. The hand cam worked well but the drone fpv transmitter just would not connect. Aerial video would have been great.

 

[caulfieldian]

I had a great time! I learned a lot and refreshed some skills I hadn't used in a while. It was great meeting everyone and I look forward to doing more events like this. I loved the food and Slim's history lesson. For the price and locality, this was an incredible, incredible deal. Huge thank you to the volunteers who helped make the event possible. I'm going to try to be a volunteer at future events to ensure this can keep happening.


I have two things to consider for the next class:
1. The first rounds downrange should be to confirm/establish zeroes, and everyone should be able to get it worked out. I think one of the reasons several people had to run the qual several times was their zero was never fully established and they had to chuck rounds downrange in hopes of hitting that 200 yard steel.

2. If anything, a brief explanation of the types of malfunctions that can occur in the AR platform and how to address them, maybe having a diagram or two of several of the more common malfs and how they are fixed. I am okay with stopping a course of fire for a malfunction in a course as short as this; this isn't an expert-level course.

I can't wait to see more pics and videos and I plan on being at the next one!

 

[Dss21]

Thanks to Slim and all the instructors / volunteers for a great class ! It was a great day to be shooting at such a neat place.
Zeroed Rifles . . . . Slim stated in the original post we were shooting from close up out to 200 yrds. We all knew this weeks in advance. The target at 200 yards was large enough a 25,50 or 100 yard zero would have been fine as long as it was zeroed. You would have been within roughly 2 inches with any 3 of those zero distances. I agree for this distance 50 yards is optimal. Zero and or confirm zero you rifles BEFORE the class.

 

[caulfieldian]

I know that, I had no problems. However, it is fairly standard in most courses to check zero in the beginning of the class, just in case something went awry between packing the rifle and using it.

 

[Hop]

Video playlist. I almost got everyone. Sorry if I missed you.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVV70khrbaENhyTJp-3-D4m6d5ldP5slr

 

[MinuteManMike]

Yeah, I'm with Caulfieldian on both points. I never got to establish a good zero and I was unclear on the concept of when we were supposed to be adjusting for difference on the 25 vs 50 yards. Five or ten more minutes of getting closer to zero AND being really clear on the drop difference probably would have saved me one attempt at qualifying. I ran to 62 seconds trying to peg the 200 yard shot on try 3.

Now on the closer targets, unsupported, I'm sure my weapons was moving more than I was off on the sights.

But it's really hard to do the "Kentucky Windage" thing @100 and 200 yards and your eyes suck too much to be able to tell exactly where you're off.

I know it was far more ME than the weapon. But it's nice to eliminate as many variables for the shooters as possible.

 

[MinuteManMike]

I'm overall very happy about the day, especially since:

1: I learned I can flick off the safety with my trigger hand's thumb.
2: I learned I can slap the bolt release and chamber a round.
3: I shot the 100 and 200 yard targets each the first time I shot at them yesterday.

That was my first time shooting at targets further away than the ones at the rifle lanes at nearby indoor ranges. So I really don't know what I'm doing yet. But I hope I get a lot more fun times like this.

It was educational, a serious bargain and a great time with fun & welcoming folks. Thanks to everyone that made it such a great day. I really look forward to telling others and hopefully dragging some folks out to these shoots.

 

[MinuteManMike]

And if anyone wants to share some of what we learned (a non-serious take, at least):
Badass of the Week: Samuel Whittemore

 

[Kpquinn9100]

Throughly enjoyed this class. So glad I made it. Only thing that would've been better is if it was a 2 day class. Saw some familiar faces from the 125 basic class as well. Glad my rifle was already zeroed at 50. That helped tremendously in the long run. I've not been able to actually get out and really "run my gun" the way I did here in the qualifier. Shooting at paper at the indoor range is all the sudden boring now.

I cannot agree more with what was stated above. Have your rifle zeroed very well before the class at least at 25 yards. Also have good knowledge on how to clear malfunctions if the need arises. They were touched on briefly in the class but it was expected if you had one to work through it. I think this hung a few people up. One should be very familiar with their rifle as far as basic operation.

It was awesome to be out there shooting with everyone and seeing everyone hit the qualification to earn a patch. Word is there's another carbine clinic in October so I'll for sure be at that one as well. I'll probably run a different rifle just to get familiar with everything I own. Thanks to slim and the rest of the reveres riders and volunteers for putting these events on. The food was great once again as well. Thanks to the Bedford contingent range for hosting the event. Can't wait for the next carbine clinic now! I also plan to attend a mentioned field rifle event in October as well so October can't come soon enough. If you haven't checked the YouTube link by hop, check it out! Pretty cool to watch the course being ran by everyone. Let's see some pics!!!

 

[Deprime]

First of all, thanks again to Slim and all the volunteers who helped in putting this class together! Also, a big thanks to Bedford Contingent for making their facilities available for this event. The food was awesome as well, as I am sure everyone would agree.

This was my first time attending a class such as this and it was everything I had hoped for. I learned a lot and more importantly learned what I need to work on going forward. I had an absolutely great time and enjoyed being with and meeting everyone, both instructors/volunteers and fellow participants. We had a really great group of guys/gals out there and I am looking forward to taking another class in the future.


Pictures

Check out the Facebook page for Bedford Contingent, they have quite a few pictures on their page.

https://www.facebook.com/bedfordcontingent/



Here is a link to my album from the class.

http://s60.photobucket.com/user/marina81blue/library/INGunOwners/Carbine Class 5-28-17

Unfortunately some of the pictures are somewhat lower in quality, mainly the wide angle group shots. I didn't get my exposure compensation setting changed back to normal until later in the day. I shot in raw so I was able to recover a lot of the image but lost some detail.

 

[Kpquinn9100]

Birdblastingbrad-yes it's me. I tried to reply to the pm but my post count isn't high enough haha. Feel free to email me at kpquinn9100@att.net!

 

[ol' Huff]

Of the folks asking about zeroes I have a couple questions if I may. Have you ever attended a 25Y Revere's Riders event? Have you ever attended a Known Distance Revere's Riders event at Camp Atterbury?

 

[gregkl]

Of the folks asking about zeroes I have a couple questions if I may. Have you ever attended a 25Y Revere's Riders event? Have you ever attended a Known Distance Revere's Riders event at Camp Atterbury?

I wasn't asking about zeros but I don't know what a 25Y event is so I'm pretty sure I have not been to one. I know I have not been to a KD shoot.

What are the questions you have?

 

[Birdblastingbrad]

Huff, I have been to the Rifle 125 event (if that is the 25 Y event you are referring to). I think the general consensus is that as it reads, "zeroing carbines and rifles" listed first on special subjects, many folks had rifles that were not zeroed properly (50 yard battle site Zero). Maybe had it given instructions to have your rifle properly zeroed at 50 yards prior to arrival, there would have been a little less confusion. Several folks were confused as to where to set there sights when shooting at 25 yards for a 50 yard zero. I saw two people who were sighting dead on at 25 yards, instead of zeroing it to shoot low.

Overall, I thought the everything was very good. i will definitely take it again, but as a two day class, as I left with my trigger finger still itching!!!

 

[gregkl]

Video playlist. I almost got everyone. Sorry if I missed you.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVV70khrbaENhyTJp-3-D4m6d5ldP5slr

This was pretty cool of you to take these videos. Thanks. Just in case I am missing something, I see links to 14 videos and I believe there were about 27 shooters there. Since you mentioned that you got almost everyone, is there more and I am too computer challenged to see/find them?

Either way, thanks again for doing this!

 

[Deprime]

Here is a video of my first attempt at earning my Well Regulated patch.

[video=youtube;anlYN5dHMZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anlYN5dHMZc&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I did not get a video of my second successful attempt, I forgot to hit record before starting

 

[Hop]

This was pretty cool of you to take these videos. Thanks. Just in case I am missing something, I see links to 14 videos and I believe there were about 27 shooters there. Since you mentioned that you got almost everyone, is there more and I am too computer challenged to see/find them?

Either way, thanks again for doing this!

I had 6-7 more videos but they didn't show enough to be upload worthy. Some only showed me staring into the camera wondering if it was on record. The sun makes it hard to see cam status. Sorry.

[edit - I'll check the memory card again. There may have been some qual attempts with a gun failure or trouble hitting the 200 yard steel that didn't get uploaded. Maybe people still want to see those.]

I wish I had checked the dji drone before hand. The stupid fpv transmitter must have finally given up the smoke. I'll have it fixed for the next RR event.

 

[gregkl]

I had 6-7 more videos but they didn't show enough to be upload worthy. Some only showed me staring into the camera wondering if it was on record. The sun makes it hard to see cam status. Sorry.

[edit - I'll check the memory card again. There may have been some qual attempts with a gun failure or trouble hitting the 200 yard steel that didn't get uploaded. Maybe people still want to see those.]



I wish I had checked the dji drone before hand. The stupid fpv transmitter must have finally given up the smoke. I'll have it fixed for the next RR event.

Yeah, I'm not sure I want to see my run disintegrating! I had two poor runs. Third one was better but not great. Still a fun day.

 

[Rayne]

Here is a video of my first attempt at earning my Well Regulated patch.

[video=youtube;anlYN5dHMZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anlYN5dHMZc&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I did not get a video of my second successful attempt, I forgot to hit record before starting

Deprime, this is an excellent video of how to run the course safely and effectively. In the video we can hear you sweeping the safety on and off and I especially like how when you transition to weak side that you can not see the second target you are shooting at, because you have stayed behind concealment enough that the camera on your ear pro isn't being exposed. Excellent run and thank you for being a safe student all day also.

 

[ol' Huff]

Brad I understand what the course listing said, and I commiserate with the sensation of being without a hard zero. My question was more to set up the asking of the question "Why?" If a guy (or gal) was attending a rifle class, and had been to a previous RR 25Y event or an Appleseed or a CMP SAFS class, why did they not have a hard, known zero on that rifle beforehand? Why, if you were familiar with the process of zeroing, are any of your rifles running around without hard zeroes? Presumably everyone brought some form of fast response, door kicker carbine to this class. If that was indeed the case, why would that rifle, above all others, not have a zero?

Keep in mind this does not forgive the event director. If the listing said there would be time spent on zeroing and no time was spent on zeroing, that is on the event director and should be addressed. However, I think there are a few comments made in this thread that point to some deficiencies within the gun culture that we can and ought to correct and address. First, Indymike, in a very honest and frank report, stated that he did not understand where what his zero was, was unfamiliar enough with his rifle he did not fully understand the function of his rifle, and through his comments we can derive that he did not fully understand the trajectory of his rifle or Kentucky Windage. Caulfieldian noted that the first shots of the class, a tactical carbine class, should be to confirm zeros and everyone should be able to work it out. He then goes on to say that the reason so many people had trouble with the qualifier was because they had poor zeroes. I disagree. I think the reason they were unsuccessful is because they just don't know how to shoot yet. That leads me beyond the question of "Why?" to the question of "What?". What are we trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish if you don't know your manual of arms and this is your first time shooting outside of an indoor range? That is no criticism of Indymike, who I would again compliment for his frankness, but it is a clear sign of situational ignorance and failure of the gun culture. A shooter in that position should be surrounded by people who insist upon them going to a more fundamental class so they can figure out what they are doing before going to a carbine class. What are people training for? Are folks just doing it to fill time or are they trying to learn how to fight better with their rifles? If that is the case then they should ABSOLUTELY show up with a hard, known zero. Will the badguys give you a chance to zero? Are people training to take classes? Is it a way of socializing? What are we doing? What are our goals?

Where do we want to go as a culture? Why do we make the choices we do? What do we do to make ourselves better? Just about any martial art can be applied one of three ways, recreation, sport, and fighting. Each one of those things is enhanced by a critical attention to detail. We can only make the most of our learning is our preparation is done in critical detail. Whenever I hear talk of trouble with zeroes I know, through long experience, that the problem is actual trouble with preparation. So when I see folks comment on zeroes in a carbine class, my instinct is to wonder, "Why didn't we, as a culture, do more to prepare the people who were unprepared?" The answer always seems to be that it is okay to be unprepared. It's not. We can do more. A good place to start is to insist, as a culture, that folks go to a 25Y event before they go to a carbine class or to Atterbury. There are a lot of gunowners in the USA, but not many shooters. We can change that is we do more as a culture to insist on making better use of our training opportunities.