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Carbine Clinic (Rifle 223) - May 28th - Bedford
- Thread starter MohawkSlim
- Start date
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There's a 2-day Carbine class in October. Sign up now, and avoid the rush.
MohawkSlim
Expert
I sure had fun at this event!
Knowing 27 more Americans are now more capable and comfortable with America's Rifle makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Knowing we're that much closer to a community of shooters - and not just gun owners - gives me a smile.
As said earlier in this thread, a big thank you for all the feedback. We're constantly evolving and doing our best to get better. Revere's Riders is a volunteer organization and our volunteers work to bring you the best product we can at the best value possible. Your input is a big step in that process. I appreciate the candid and honest posts. Thanks too for doing the surveys.
Carbine is still a new course offering for us. This was only the second public clinic and the first one-day event. As such, we had to trim certain things from the curriculum and add things based on the input of the first course. One shooter was correct to note, "this is really a 1.5 day class crammed into 1." My goal for this clinic is for shooters to leave WELL REGULATED. I don't get bogged down on the scores or numbers. I simply want you to feel confident you can take that AR out of the case or safe or closet when something goes bump in the night and use it to defend yourself and family. I want you to leave the course comfortable using your carbine for hours on end. I want you to be capable of using that rifle for whatever may come.
I believe all 27 attendees achieved that.
We may need a bit more practice. We may want to (and should) take another training course. We may need a bit more explanation and understanding on some of the concepts like distance shooting. But, the bottom line is, we're more ready than we were yesterday.
And that, is a win!
A note on the zero process in re:this clinic - Each shooter was hitting a post-it note at 12 yards from a standing position. So, everyone was relatively well zeroed for the type of shooting we were doing. Zeroes were covered not once, but twice during this event. We touched on it early in the morning when Unbridled Liberty told us about Carbine offset and aiming a bit high due to the sight being higher over the bore. Then, at lunch, he covered more in depth when he presented the lesson on trajectory and distance shooting. The concepts of near and far zero, battle sight zero, and setting up the carbine for a 50/200 yard zero were covered. Immediately after, I asked everyone if they understood what we were doing by establishing a zero "approximately halfway between our bore and sights." All nodded. Now, this was done on a full belly of fried chicken so, no doubt, it's possible a bit of glossy eyes and wandering thoughts could've happened. We ran three strings of fire to confirm zero. Every single shooter should have been capable of hitting steel at 200 yards, even if their sights were dead on.
The silhouette we were shooting was 19" high by 26" wide. What most likely happened is shooters who'd been using "Carbine Offset" and aiming high all morning subconsciously drifted high while shooting the 200 yard steel. Also worth noting is the silhouette has no target area above the shoulders so the target is smaller in that area. If you're aiming high - and there's only 1/3 of a target there - you have a 2/3 chance of missing!
Shooters weren't just missing right over the target. Many of the shots were several feet high. That's not a zero issue; that's a hold/aiming issue. Many shots were also getting tossed left/right. That's a fundamentals issue.
What it really boils down to is during a 1-day course, there's only so much information we can absorb. When you add delicious fried chicken to that, it exacerbates the issue. During a 2-day course our brain allows us to take in a bit more information because we tell ourselves we have time to absorb it. If we take a few courses, we start to absorb more and more each time. Stuff like zeroing starts to get simple.
Knowing 27 more Americans are now more capable and comfortable with America's Rifle makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Knowing we're that much closer to a community of shooters - and not just gun owners - gives me a smile.
As said earlier in this thread, a big thank you for all the feedback. We're constantly evolving and doing our best to get better. Revere's Riders is a volunteer organization and our volunteers work to bring you the best product we can at the best value possible. Your input is a big step in that process. I appreciate the candid and honest posts. Thanks too for doing the surveys.
Carbine is still a new course offering for us. This was only the second public clinic and the first one-day event. As such, we had to trim certain things from the curriculum and add things based on the input of the first course. One shooter was correct to note, "this is really a 1.5 day class crammed into 1." My goal for this clinic is for shooters to leave WELL REGULATED. I don't get bogged down on the scores or numbers. I simply want you to feel confident you can take that AR out of the case or safe or closet when something goes bump in the night and use it to defend yourself and family. I want you to leave the course comfortable using your carbine for hours on end. I want you to be capable of using that rifle for whatever may come.
I believe all 27 attendees achieved that.
We may need a bit more practice. We may want to (and should) take another training course. We may need a bit more explanation and understanding on some of the concepts like distance shooting. But, the bottom line is, we're more ready than we were yesterday.
And that, is a win!
A note on the zero process in re:this clinic - Each shooter was hitting a post-it note at 12 yards from a standing position. So, everyone was relatively well zeroed for the type of shooting we were doing. Zeroes were covered not once, but twice during this event. We touched on it early in the morning when Unbridled Liberty told us about Carbine offset and aiming a bit high due to the sight being higher over the bore. Then, at lunch, he covered more in depth when he presented the lesson on trajectory and distance shooting. The concepts of near and far zero, battle sight zero, and setting up the carbine for a 50/200 yard zero were covered. Immediately after, I asked everyone if they understood what we were doing by establishing a zero "approximately halfway between our bore and sights." All nodded. Now, this was done on a full belly of fried chicken so, no doubt, it's possible a bit of glossy eyes and wandering thoughts could've happened. We ran three strings of fire to confirm zero. Every single shooter should have been capable of hitting steel at 200 yards, even if their sights were dead on.
The silhouette we were shooting was 19" high by 26" wide. What most likely happened is shooters who'd been using "Carbine Offset" and aiming high all morning subconsciously drifted high while shooting the 200 yard steel. Also worth noting is the silhouette has no target area above the shoulders so the target is smaller in that area. If you're aiming high - and there's only 1/3 of a target there - you have a 2/3 chance of missing!
Shooters weren't just missing right over the target. Many of the shots were several feet high. That's not a zero issue; that's a hold/aiming issue. Many shots were also getting tossed left/right. That's a fundamentals issue.
What it really boils down to is during a 1-day course, there's only so much information we can absorb. When you add delicious fried chicken to that, it exacerbates the issue. During a 2-day course our brain allows us to take in a bit more information because we tell ourselves we have time to absorb it. If we take a few courses, we start to absorb more and more each time. Stuff like zeroing starts to get simple.
That WAS good chicken. I really wanted to grab that last breast but I forgot to see if it was still there after I passed. 
MohawkSlim
Expert
He didn't grab your breasts, did he?
MohawkSlim
Expert
And that's exactly what this class is for. We've had a lot of success with Project Appleseed and Revere's Riders Basic/Field clinics but the majority of gun-owning Hoosiers are still "conceal & carry" folks or they're plinkers who occasionally shoot in their neighbor's back yard off the picnic table.
Carbine aims to take the new AR owners and those guys who've owned one for years but don't shoot much (or do the layin on the belly and shootin once a year) and turn them into WELL REGULATED shooters. Our forefathers were proficient with the shooting irons. Today, we own guns, but we don't necessarily possess the prowess to walk around with them making good hits on multiple targets at distance. We've "been shooting for years" yet we're not 100% comfortable with shooting all day. The fieldcraft is the line in the sand. Most Hoosiers can post up at the range for an hour or two but getting walking around all day and it's a different animal. We need to harness that beast!
The October course is going to be loads of fun. You will leave there proficient on your AR. You will leave WELL REGULATED. You will leave possessing the prowess to make hits on multiple targets at distance. You will make our forefathers proud!
If you count a red dot as an optic, I think all but about 3-4 of us had optics of some sort.
I have a 1-4 power scope and I thought it was perfect for that event!
I know I used the iron sights on my H&K a couple times and they did great. I don't think I hit the 200 yards target using 9mm though. Most of the time I used an RMR sitting atop a fixed 4x ACOG (AR15). That also worked great.
You can use irons or just about anything with a low magnification. Over ~4x starts to get tough for the up close stuff. Bring whatever you have and learn to use it.
You can use irons or just about anything with a low magnification. Over ~4x starts to get tough for the up close stuff. Bring whatever you have and learn to use it.
I really wanted to get through the class without any optics. I think optics on ARs is overkill. I think I should be able to hit anything inside of 300 meters without optics.
Of course getting a CORRECT ZERO would help first...
My mind agrees with you. Sadly, my eyes do not
+1. After my first Appleseed I was really encouraged and motivated to try irons. I can do it but it's just not as much fun and if I am shooting a lot, I experience a lot of eye fatigue. I did the Garand clinic and though it was fun, I realized that I am past my prime in using military style peep sights.
At this stage I welcome the low power variable scope. I really like my Leupold VX-R 1-4!
+1. After my first Appleseed I was really encouraged and motivated to try irons. I can do it but it's just not as much fun and if I am shooting a lot, I experience a lot of eye fatigue. I did the Garand clinic and though it was fun, I realized that I am past my prime in using military style peep sights.
At this stage I welcome the low power variable scope. I really like my Leupold VX-R 1-4!
I ran a stint last summer with a borrowed rifle of slims. (holy cow, don't ever do that lol). But I did manage a 46 score, and reminded everyone that it wasn't going to get any better than that. For me, the front sight takes so much more concentration, and even with magnified glasses, the target becomes way more blurry. The target 'refracts' around the front sight post, almost like a raindrop was on it, making it very difficult to get onto the bottom of the target when it is constantly 'bowing'/refracting.
On the second day, I ran my rifle (scoped) at 4x power, and scored a 49. I rush 1st stage and didn't rest, missing one hit.
It was very satisfying to do as well as I did with irons, and a borrowed rifle (with a frayed sling, and mags that wouldn't strip loose easily).
But I'll run a scope or red dot that I can see easier. I've scored rifleman plenty of times on irons. I'm no interested in bravado anymore. I want hits. I want something I know works, everytime, without fail. So I'll run my red dot on sbr for this event.
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