Carmel, Ind., politics

[87iroc]

Columbus tried the 3rd party organizaton to control tax money to revamp downtown. Columbus was trying to be Carmel. Our new mayor came in, broke up things and got elected by exposing the questionable dealings of the previous admin and nonchalances using taxpayer money. One of the classics was the organization telling taxpayers...'we don't have to tell you how we spend your money'.

Within a year of her taking down the organization it came out the Carmel's version was way underwater and needed a bail out. It never made big news...but I saw that if we had kept the previous admins wishes going by the time my daughter was in HS(5 yrs) Columbus would have been crying and wanting a bail out from taxpayers.

Also, our mayor then threw a temper tantrum repeatedly about property tax limits...but thats nothing to do with downtown(other than its how he would help fund the downtown redevelopment.)

 

[JTScribe]

Columbus tried the 3rd party organizaton to control tax money to revamp downtown. Columbus was trying to be Carmel. Our new mayor came in, broke up things and got elected by exposing the questionable dealings of the previous admin and nonchalances using taxpayer money. One of the classics was the organization telling taxpayers...'we don't have to tell you how we spend your money'.

Within a year of her taking down the organization it came out the Carmel's version was way underwater and needed a bail out. It never made big news...but I saw that if we had kept the previous admins wishes going by the time my daughter was in HS(5 yrs) Columbus would have been crying and wanting a bail out from taxpayers.

Also, our mayor then threw a temper tantrum repeatedly about property tax limits...but thats nothing to do with downtown(other than its how he would help fund the downtown redevelopment.)

She sure does get the good old boys going. I don't know if she'll get re-elected or not but it's been entertaining watching her take on the entrenched interests and watching their over-the-top reactions. Thankfully I live out in the county and don't have to deal with the city too much.

Anyhoo, heard this on the radio this morning and thought of this thread:

Carmel Mayor Jim Brainard: $613,200 needed to fix reflecting pool

 

[Tripp11]

Anyhoo, heard this on the radio this morning and thought of this thread:

Carmel Mayor Jim Brainard: $613,200 needed to fix reflecting pool

Heard the same discussion on WIBC. This reflecting pool, and some of the other capital improvements/additions sure do seem to be "look at me" expenses rather than how these monies can be spent to benefit the entire community. Pathetic. Unfortunately, I see Fishers (where I live) moving in the same direction. Has anyone seen the roundabout at Fall Creek Road and 96th Street? Why in the hell does it need to have all that brick, pavers and concrete - which simply appears to be done as a complete cosmetic "look at me" fancy show.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

The roundabouts are good. The decorations in the middle are [bad word] stupid. The one at 136th and Rangeline has a $100,000 sculpture in it. Yes, $100,000. And not by someone local. There's an artist across the street from me. She could have done something nice for a few thousand. Heck, I could duplicate the thing with my MIG welder and I'd be happy with a few thousand. Then there are those stupid sculptures infesting the "arts & design district". I originally thought they were pretty cool, but I did some research. The guy scans someone in 3D with a computer, then has it make a mold to cast these things. It's not even art, it's more of a craft. And we have millions of dollars in them. There's one that looks like a child molester chasing a girl on a bicycle, for marklar's sake. I'm not gonna say what I've thought of doing, hehe.

 

[miguel]

I work in Carmel so my opinion doesn't really count... But I pretty much agree with 88.

I wouldn't want to live in Carmel.
I like what they did with keystone though.

+274 to this. Guy might be a jagov, but the Keystone improvements have made a big difference in my daily commute.

 

[crispy]

Heard the same discussion on WIBC. This reflecting pool, and some of the other capital improvements/additions sure do seem to be "look at me" expenses rather than how these monies can be spent to benefit the entire community. Pathetic. Unfortunately, I see Fishers (where I live) moving in the same direction. Has anyone seen the roundabout at Fall Creek Road and 96th Street? Why in the hell does it need to have all that brick, pavers and concrete - which simply appears to be done as a complete cosmetic "look at me" fancy show.

Those "look at me" expenses do benefit the entire community. They bring in the high income earners to the community, increasing the tax revenues, keeping the tax rates low.

No one has to live there. They're going one route, plenty of other cities trying it differently. Go live in Anderson if you don't like it.

 

[T.Lex]

Those "look at me" expenses do benefit the entire community. They bring in the high income earners to the community, increasing the tax revenues, keeping the tax rates low.

How do we know?

Those end up being infrastructure that result in maintenance costs in perpetuity. The reflecting pool is a good example of a "look at me" expense that has now ballooned to at least $613k.

Love the roundabouts, but the more expensive the interior hardscape is, the more expensive it is to replace when someone crashes into it, or it becomes dilapidated from age.

High earners came to Carmel long before there were roundabouts. No poll or survey I'm familiar with on the topic of why people come to Carmel ever mentioned those amenities. It boils down to low taxes and schools. The future of low taxes is in serious jeopardy with our current and anticipated debt load and schools are squarely outside the mayor's purview.

 

[Tripp11]

Those "look at me" expenses do benefit the entire community. They bring in the high income earners to the community, increasing the tax revenues, keeping the tax rates low.

No one has to live there. They're going one route, plenty of other cities trying it differently. Go live in Anderson if you don't like it.

That "look at me" reflecting pool is a perfect example of government waste and abuse of tax dollars, plain and simple. It serves absolutely no purpose.

And if no one lives in Carmel (your words, not mine), what does that do to the tax revenue?

I don't live in Carmel, but if I did, I would be very concerned with their addiction to debt/bond financing on these "look at me" type of structures.

 

[Tripp11]

The roundabouts are good. The decorations in the middle are [bad word] stupid. The one at 136th and Rangeline has a $100,000 sculpture in it. Yes, $100,000. And not by someone local. There's an artist across the street from me. She could have done something nice for a few thousand. Heck, I could duplicate the thing with my MIG welder and I'd be happy with a few thousand. Then there are those stupid sculptures infesting the "arts & design district". I originally thought they were pretty cool, but I did some research. The guy scans someone in 3D with a computer, then has it make a mold to cast these things. It's not even art, it's more of a craft. And we have millions of dollars in them. There's one that looks like a child molester chasing a girl on a bicycle, for marklar's sake. I'm not gonna say what I've thought of doing, hehe.

More perfect examples of the "look at me" capital structures totally pissing away tax payer money.

I agree with roundabouts, Keystone corridor project, etc...; however, there's no need for a $100,000 sculpture in the center of a roundabout.

 

[88GT]

Those "look at me" expenses do benefit the entire community. They bring in the high income earners to the community, increasing the tax revenues, keeping the tax rates low.

No one has to live there. They're going one route, plenty of other cities trying it differently. Go live in Anderson if you don't like it.

Guess we know one person on Brainard's staff.

 

[T.Lex]

Guess we know one person on Brainard's staff.

Not necessarily. Could be with any one of the engineering/building/staffing/consulting/publicity companies that the City uses.

 

[T.Lex]

Letter to the Editor in the Star on Friday.
Council member: Carmel on unsustainable path

The mayor promised tax revenue from the redevelopment would be more than sufficient to cover the debt. Now he is telling his constituents this may not be true. The talking points emphasize the “additional” revenue and downplay the failure of the original model. Years ago, he told us — taxpayers and the council — not to worry about the commission’s excessive borrowing. “Not worrying” resulted in a taxpayer-backed bailout in excess of $185 million!

Pretty strong letter.

 

[Streck-Fu]

As a resident of Hamilton Co, and a former resident of Fishers (a self fashioned Carmel-lite) and am very happy to not live in either location. Both city centers are terribly cliched facades of of towns. They could easily film a new movie about Stepford in either town.

 

[Jeepsandguns]

Those "look at me" expenses do benefit the entire community. They bring in the high income earners to the community, increasing the tax revenues, keeping the tax rates low.

No one has to live there. They're going one route, plenty of other cities trying it differently. Go live in Anderson if you don't like it.

I agree with you. Personally, I like that the city looks nice, that the grass in the middle of Keystone is mowed, and the hanging baskets of flowers from light poles are watered. I spend a good deal of time and money making my landscaping and home look nice and I'm glad that my community does the same.

 

[88GT]

I agree with you. Personally, I like that the city looks nice, that the grass in the middle of Keystone is mowed, and the hanging baskets of flowers from light poles are watered. I spend a good deal of time and money making my landscaping and home look nice and I'm glad that my community does the same.

If you like it that much, you can voluntarily give your funds to keep it looking that way. What justification do you have for making your neighbors pay for it too?

 

[Tripp11]

I agree with you. Personally, I like that the city looks nice, that the grass in the middle of Keystone is mowed, and the hanging baskets of flowers from light poles are watered. I spend a good deal of time and money making my landscaping and home look nice and I'm glad that my community does the same.

Carmel's debt was second only to Indianapolis, per a recent report. More recent articles from The Star, WTHR, etc... all suggest that Carmel is finding it very difficult to pay for all of this accumulating debt AND the ongoing costs of keeping up this new suburban city building boom. Annually, the City of Carmel has been slashing other budget areas to pay for the debt and the ongoing maintenance costs of these new projects. Carmel is supposedly only 1/2 way thru its new vision, but where will the money come from to pay for said vision - like a $500,000 flower laden decorative staircase at the City Center.

While I agree it "looks nice", one has to focus more on the burden this is placing on taxpayers - and unnecessarily in my opinion.

 

[Jeepsandguns]

If you like it that much, you can voluntarily give your funds to keep it looking that way. What justification do you have for making your neighbors pay for it too?

I understand where you come from completely. On the state and federal level, I always cringe at the reckless spending. But when I can see my tax dollars going into my own community, I'm ok with that. If our taxes were sky high, I wouldn't like it. But as it stands, our taxes are very low compared to many other places.

 

[T.Lex]

But as it stands, our taxes are very low compared to many other places.

That somewhat depends on how you count (the new stormwater assessment is effectively a tax). But, it also assumes the Mayor isn't taking on additional risk of tax increases with additional debt.

Just because they are (relatively) low now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

 

[Yup!]

Be careful, the amount of doctors, scientists, "educated" people that vote democrat is amazing. Just because someone makes money does not mean they politically have a clue. in fact, a lot of those people realize that corruption is the easiest way to make money, so they take that route, and vote that way. our constitution requires morality to survive, we are seeing that it is failing. Put a corrupt evil judge in the right place and you have................yup.

thats not very nice!

 

[Jeepsandguns]

That somewhat depends on how you count (the new stormwater assessment is effectively a tax). But, it also assumes the Mayor isn't taking on additional risk of tax increases with additional debt.

Just because they are (relatively) low now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

My initial reaction to the new "assessment" was negative, but I am glad I live in a place that has the forethought to make the investments in infrastructure before they are a problem. This was especially highlighted during the drought a couple years ago when the surrounding communities were running out of water and we were fine because of well system we put in place.