IANAL, but if it is carried on the person I believe that counts as being "secured." Who's the famous dude who's a convicted felon, but lives in the same house with his wife and her multitude of firearms?
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Carrying with an ex-con?
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IANAL, but if it is carried on the person I believe that counts as being "secured." Who's the famous dude who's a convicted felon, but lives in the same house with his wife and her multitude of firearms?
That'd be G. Gordon Liddy.
Also, IIRC, Former LtCol. Oliver North is a convicted felon. He received a pardon, I think.
Sloughfoot, if someone finds himself in the same situation as LtCol. North, that is, he no longer is considered an ex-con legally but he was once convicted, does the statement in writing by some elected official change the basic character and trustworthiness of a person?
Conversely, if someone was wrongly convicted... someone who did nothing wrong other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time, does the decision of a jury or a judge change the moral character or trustworthiness of that man?
The other side of the "former convicts should be considered just as the rest of us are" is that if someone is truly guilty of a crime for which he should not be trusted ever again, that person should not be freed. That part is often forgotten by people who just want to ridicule the concept and keep taking revenge on someone throughout his whole life over an act (or more than one) committed as a child or very young adult.
Blessings,
Bill
G. Gordon Liddy
To the OP:
As long as the gun is not in a position that could be construed to be under his direct control (in his lap, directly under his seat, in the pocket of the door he's sitting by, etc.) he should be fine. It works the same way in reverse, too. If there is an illegal item in the vehicle it is not considered to belong to one person (except possibly the driver) unless it can be reasonably shown to be under their direct control.
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
What felony offense does not, at its core, require bad character? I don't know of one. I am willing to listen if you know of one. Murder, theft, burglary, fraud, rape, even OWI all require the offender to not care about the effect of what they do on other people. To not care, is to reveal bad character.
This conversation is about an ex-con. You are only an ex-con because you have been convicted of a felony. I don't believe in getting convicted because you are in the "wrong place at the wrong time". This is convict talk to justify what the offender DID do. If someone tells you that they were convicted by a Jury of 6 or 12 and that is all they were doing, they are lying and blowing smoke up your pipe. Juries don't WANT to convict. They are made of people that want to NOT convict.
Children cannot commit felonies under the law. They can only commit offenses that would be felonies if they were an adult. A felony is a felony whether someone is 21 or 71.
I do not believe in revenge, that belongs to the Lord. I just have my eyes open to the true evil that DOES walk on this earth. And I have not met the ex-con that I would trust. Sooner or later, they revert to the lies that led them to commit the crime or the lies that allowed them to survive prison. They can't help it. Even little lies.
I have hired ex-cons, I do business with ex-cons. I just don't allow them to get into a postion where they can take advantage of me.
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Here is a link I posted in another thread:
NYT: Why innocent people confess to crimes - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com
Here's the thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...05467-he_begged_for_his_life_-_sad_story.html
Not EVERY convict is truly guilty. The vast majority are but some do get prosecuted wrongly.
Here is an example from a recent thread:
http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/09101002tac.pdf
The guy got convicted based solely on the cops illegal actions & the testimony of the cops who committed them.
Still don't believe it can happe? If it happened once it can happen more.
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
finity, I have to admit that I started to read the NYT article but had to stop because of its obvious bias. So what if someone confesses to a crime they did not commit? I have met lots of people that feel guilty about things that they have done and are eager to confess to something because they didn't get caught.
Regarding your link to the INGO thread, I don't understand what your point is. 4 guys broke into a house, murdered a person, and they were convicted of murder. I don't see any wrongful conviction.
Your third example is a case that was overturned by the Appeals Court. Good for them. Are you aware that EVERY Felony conviction is reviewed by the Indiana Court of Appeals if requested by the defense attorney? It is why I am confident that every incarcerated Felon is right where he/she needs to be.
My wife is a court reporter and she and her fellow court reporters have 90 days from the date of appeal to get the transcript and exhibits to the Appeals Court or she can be sanctioned for violating the convicted persons "right to appeal". Some weeks she has 2 or 3 convictions transcripts that have to be typed and forwarded. She spends her evenings and weekends getting them done every week.
I think I am now done hijacking this thread.
regards.
Regarding your link to the INGO thread, I don't understand what your point is. 4 guys broke into a house, murdered a person, and they were convicted of murder. I don't see any wrongful conviction.
Your third example is a case that was overturned by the Appeals Court. Good for them. Are you aware that EVERY Felony conviction is reviewed by the Indiana Court of Appeals if requested by the defense attorney? It is why I am confident that every incarcerated Felon is right where he/she needs to be.
My wife is a court reporter and she and her fellow court reporters have 90 days from the date of appeal to get the transcript and exhibits to the Appeals Court or she can be sanctioned for violating the convicted persons "right to appeal". Some weeks she has 2 or 3 convictions transcripts that have to be typed and forwarded. She spends her evenings and weekends getting them done every week.
I think I am now done hijacking this thread.
regards.
Then please pay attention: I said not every arrestable offense is an crime of bad character.
In Indiana, sex with a minor by an individual over the age of 21 is a felony.
The college boyfriend with the high school girlfriend.
In Indiana, pointing a loaded firearm at a person is a felony.
The homeowner who holds his firearm at the ready-low position.
In Indiana, aggravated battery is a felony.
The 18y/o brother who leaves a bruise on his 14y/o brother when the two of them got into it over something. Or the mother spanking her 5y/o in which her wedding ring accidentally leaves a scratch on the leg.
In Indiana, domestic violence is a felony.
Do I really need to provide an example of how misused this charge is?
In Indiana, Ecstasy possession (mere possession) is a felony.
Speaks for itself, unless you approve of the state having the power and authority to tell you what you what you can and cannot ingest.
In Indiana, indecent exposure is a felony.
Just ask the guy who likes to drink his coffee naked.
In Indiana, manslaughter is a felony.
How many self-defense cases, albeit not so many in Indiana, can just as easily be prosecuted as manslaughter?
In Indiana, neglect of a dependent is a felony.
Oh the things the state has claimed qualified as neglect.
In Indiana, obstruction of justice is a felony.
In Indiana, resisting law enforcement is a felony.
I'm lumping these two together because the things that pass for obstruction and resisting are whatever the cops don't like about the person they're dealing with. Recording LE interactions with the public? Not putting your hands behind your back fast enough because the 3 burly guys sticking their knees in your kidneys and their batons to your gut kinda just makes your body instinctively want to curl up in the fetal position.
Now if after all that you can't see a distinction between being charged/convicted for an arrestable offense and actually being a bone-deep POS, you've got a serious problem.
Yeah, because all felony convictions are limited solely to the guilty of real crimes with real victims.
So the Realtor who was completely oblivious to the mortgage fraud being perpetrated between the buyer (his client), the lender, and the appraiser can't be wrongly charged, tried, and convicted for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? There are never any circumstances where guilt by association was sufficient for a conviction despite any real crime being committed?
I'm not sure what age has to do with it. But you've undermined your own argument by implying that the legal aspect of a felony is entirely independent of the intent of the individual.
Apparently you don't believe in forgiveness or repentance/redemption either.
Besides, all of this is secondary to the fact that in one post you claimed a particular thing to be FACT. And in your second, you claimed it to be your mere opinion. I was asking you to clarify the contradiction.
... or the guy who puts a vertical foregrip on his MP5 clone pistol and unknowingly makes an NFA weapon. Or a guy who has an M16 selector in his AR and it malfunctions and he's convicted of possessing a machine gun. Or the guy who sells a hunting shotgun to his buddy who lives just over the state line.
There are so many things now that are crimes and many that are felonies, you could easily be tripped up by the law without being a person of "bad moral character."
One of my friend's first handguns he bought off a guy who lived in TX, but was working in his state. He has technically committed a felony. He's an awesome guy who wouldn't harm anyone.
It scares me that so many things no longer require criminal intent to be considered a crime, especially those things that I've mentioned that rise to the level of felonies.
There are so many things now that are crimes and many that are felonies, you could easily be tripped up by the law without being a person of "bad moral character."
One of my friend's first handguns he bought off a guy who lived in TX, but was working in his state. He has technically committed a felony. He's an awesome guy who wouldn't harm anyone.
It scares me that so many things no longer require criminal intent to be considered a crime, especially those things that I've mentioned that rise to the level of felonies.
Then please pay attention: I said not every arrestable offense is an crime of bad character.
In Indiana, sex with a minor by an individual over the age of 21 is a felony.
The college boyfriend with the high school girlfriend.
In Indiana, pointing a loaded firearm at a person is a felony.
The homeowner who holds his firearm at the ready-low position.
In Indiana, aggravated battery is a felony.
The 18y/o brother who leaves a bruise on his 14y/o brother when the two of them got into it over something. Or the mother spanking her 5y/o in which her wedding ring accidentally leaves a scratch on the leg.
In Indiana, domestic violence is a felony.
Do I really need to provide an example of how misused this charge is?
In Indiana, Ecstasy possession (mere possession) is a felony.
Speaks for itself, unless you approve of the state having the power and authority to tell you what you what you can and cannot ingest.
In Indiana, indecent exposure is a felony.
Just ask the guy who likes to drink his coffee naked.
In Indiana, manslaughter is a felony.
How many self-defense cases, albeit not so many in Indiana, can just as easily be prosecuted as manslaughter?
In Indiana, neglect of a dependent is a felony.
Oh the things the state has claimed qualified as neglect.
In Indiana, obstruction of justice is a felony.
In Indiana, resisting law enforcement is a felony.
I'm lumping these two together because the things that pass for obstruction and resisting are whatever the cops don't like about the person they're dealing with. Recording LE interactions with the public? Not putting your hands behind your back fast enough because the 3 burly guys sticking their knees in your kidneys and their batons to your gut kinda just makes your body instinctively want to curl up in the fetal position.
Now if after all that you can't see a distinction between being charged/convicted for an arrestable offense and actually being a bone-deep POS, you've got a serious problem.
Yeah, because all felony convictions are limited solely to the guilty of real crimes with real victims.
So the Realtor who was completely oblivious to the mortgage fraud being perpetrated between the buyer (his client), the lender, and the appraiser can't be wrongly charged, tried, and convicted for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? There are never any circumstances where guilt by association was sufficient for a conviction despite any real crime being committed?
I'm not sure what age has to do with it. But you've undermined your own argument by implying that the legal aspect of a felony is entirely independent of the intent of the individual.
Apparently you don't believe in forgiveness or repentance/redemption either.
Besides, all of this is secondary to the fact that in one post you claimed a particular thing to be FACT. And in your second, you claimed it to be your mere opinion. I was asking you to clarify the contradiction.
Ummm...Indecent exposure is not a felony. Resisting LE and domestic battery are also not felony's minus a few certain enhancements.
Sounds like it must have been a whole lots of thefts if he got prison time out of it.
I might be a little more wary of a person that I know has a felony but people sometimes change. But the prison part is what I would be most concerned with. It takes a serious charge or a lot of charges for you to get prison time. Just something to think about. That don't mean he is all bad though.
Kind of hard to let it not be known it is there when you tell everyone where you hide it. Don't forget there are folks that would love to know where your guns are hid, even while you are at work.
Chris Kiefner
Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,399
- 149
Indecent exposure is a felony if they have a prior conviction for it.
But here are a few of mine
This one I'm not sure about, is getting a gift or tip a "lawful consideration"?
If it's not I know a few casino dealers and cocktail waitress that are guilty of it.
For (1) how many people here started up a football pool or similar at work? (3) how many bars do you know that has some form of pushcards/jars etc?
(5) you have a few friends over for a friendly poker game, that is legal. But if you exchange chips for money to play with, yep you got it felony.
Your brother in law is out of beer on Sunday
and wants a few for the football game and grilling out. He comes by and you give him an extra 12 pack you have sitting around. He gives you the money for it. Yep you just committed a felony. You don't have to plant it, take care of it or anything. Just know that it is growing and not destroy it. With the way it grows wild in a few areas here in IN I'm guessing half the farmers around there are committing a felony. And I can't blame them, they have enough work to do without spending who knows how much time to destroy them all, there is a reason it's called weed.
RachelMarie
Master
- Apr 9, 2009
- 2,866
- 38
It's probably good you don't let them into a position for them to "take advantage of you". You seem to be quite the judgmental person. Sounds like some folks are better off NOT having you on their side.
Bad character at one point in their life doesn't mean they continue on with that "Bad Character".
My "best friend" is one of these people you speak so highly of. Made some stupid choices at the ripe old age of 18. Spent 2 years in prison paying for his mistakes. Now, 20 years later he meets people (such as yourself) who seem to judge him only by this ONE point in his life. Not every ex con is out to get people...SOME people grow up. And through it all he doesn't hide the fact that he screwed up, actually he embraces it. He tries to help people who are in the situation he was in 20 years ago. He reaches out to lift people up who have fallen in the same rut he did so many years ago. He doesn't hide the fact that he went to prison from ANYONE. If it comes up in conversation, he tells his story. Sadly, he runs into people like you who can not accept the fact that people DO change. I say he's better off without people like that in his life. Who in their right mind would want to surround themselves by people who judge others by what they did 20 years ago?
And btw...This "friend" I speak of, He hasn't broken the law since he's been out of prison (maybe a speeding ticket once or twice). He's a GREAT person, he doesn't judge people, and to be quite frank, I'm pretty stinking proud to be able to call him a "friend".
/rant
As for the original post....You can not get into trouble for carrying a firearm in the same car as an ex con as long as he/she doesn't have access to the firearm in question. Nor can the person have access to the ammo.
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
You know, all of you standing up for ex-cons, Yay for you who believe in them and for those exs-cons those who have straightened up their lives.
What you are failing to take into account is the VICTIMS of these folks. By your reponses, I doubt any of you have ever dealt with the victims and tried to obtain justice for them. Especially frustrating is the perps who do the same thing over and over. The recidivism rate is still in the 80% range.
I have seen permanent scars; physical, emotional, mental, financial. For some victims, the grave.
I don't think I am judgemental but I certainly am a cynic about ex-cons. It is not for me to forgive on behalf of the victims. Please spare the lectures about "victimless" crimes. Even though there might indeed be "victimless" crimes, the vast majority of criminal activity hurts somebody. It is the victims that have my empathy and support. Not the self-centered perpetrators that chose to ruin somebody's life by their actions.
Best regards to you all....Remember, there will be a LEO to show up to help you if you need one., but only after the damage has already happened.
What you are failing to take into account is the VICTIMS of these folks. By your reponses, I doubt any of you have ever dealt with the victims and tried to obtain justice for them. Especially frustrating is the perps who do the same thing over and over. The recidivism rate is still in the 80% range.
I have seen permanent scars; physical, emotional, mental, financial. For some victims, the grave.
I don't think I am judgemental but I certainly am a cynic about ex-cons. It is not for me to forgive on behalf of the victims. Please spare the lectures about "victimless" crimes. Even though there might indeed be "victimless" crimes, the vast majority of criminal activity hurts somebody. It is the victims that have my empathy and support. Not the self-centered perpetrators that chose to ruin somebody's life by their actions.
Best regards to you all....Remember, there will be a LEO to show up to help you if you need one., but only after the damage has already happened.
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sloughfoot
Grandmaster
And also, those of you who have ex-cons that are "best friends" who have changed their lives and are now on the straight and narrow and have found God, please tell me how their victims sleep at night and have been restored to the time before the perp totally changed their lives and their perception of their lives.
If this has happened, truly has happened, and everything is right with the world in the eyes of the victim, please tell me. I am anxious to hear true success stories.
If this has happened, truly has happened, and everything is right with the world in the eyes of the victim, please tell me. I am anxious to hear true success stories.
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groovatron
Master
RachelMarie
Master
- Apr 9, 2009
- 2,866
- 38
Man, in all honesty I get where you are coming from. I understand what you're saying. But that door doesn't seem to open both ways here.
I'm in no way saying what was done was okay. Nor am I saying there isn't a victim or that the victim doesn't still think about it etc.
What *I am* saying is that maybe some ex cons actually feel remorse years after the fact. I'm talking TRUE remorse.
I'm also not saying to trust every ex con you meet. By all means, violent crimes, etc....you have to consider. But SOME ex cons ARE good people and to be honest, it pisses me off that some people don't get that.
So they screwed up...However many years ago. It doesn't make them a "bad character" forever. At least, it doesn't to some people.
Again, not talking about all ex cons...just the one I know! It seems you feel strongly about how you feel. Know that I feel strongly about it too. That's all.
I dont think there is such a condition (someone correct me if I am wrong) I think it is flat out "Can not posses firearms". If you are in control of the weapon, he is not possessing it. I dont think there is any legal punishment stating that someone can not be around firearms.
And sloughfoot: You are wrong. There are victimless crimes (drug possession). I understand some of what you are saying about the victim, I was mugged and had my jaw fractured as a result. I know the hate a victim can have. However, people change. I know many people who have served jail time. I even know a few that have done time for assault, and one guy who did time for armed robbery. Every single one of them has turned their life around. I understand that there was a victim somewhere back there, and that victim might not think so, but you also cant speak for a person you have never met. How do you know that the victim hasnt forgiven them?
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