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CMP 1911 Update
- Thread starter Thor
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I'm sure they will have everything from Rack Grade shooters (Fair) to Collector Grade (Excellent) with 95% or better of original finish and all original parts from the same manufacturer; and priced accordingly.
Maybe they are throwing out a higher than anticipated price so the politicians can use it in their formula and make it easier for them to justify signing it. take the 100,000 pistols x (a higher price) and you have increased the $$$$ benefit of the bill you signed. ???
At $1k/pistol, you are looking at $100,000,000 in gross sales!
How does that work financially for.the cmp? Cmp buying them in lots and profit from sales directly like a tradional business model? Sell them on behalf of the gov and just get paid for billed services (the work they do on the guns, marketing, sales labor...)?
At $1k/pistol, you are looking at $100,000,000 in gross sales!
How does that work financially for.the cmp? Cmp buying them in lots and profit from sales directly like a tradional business model? Sell them on behalf of the gov and just get paid for billed services (the work they do on the guns, marketing, sales labor...)?
Whatever the price is people will buy them! The going rate for a USGI 1911 is and will be higher than the CMP pricing if/when these go on sale. The CMP inventory has been drastically depleted in the last 5 years, and I don't expect these will be any different.
I'd love to have one, but there's no way in Hades that I'm paying that much for a shooter.
First:
I'm glad to see CMP looking at probable market value to put a stop to the Gun Show Flippers that gutted the stocks of M1 Garands and M1 carbines. CMP was not chartered to be a government firearms wholesaler, nor was there ever any intent for it to become one when established by Congress. CMP should be reaping the monetary benefits for their marksmanship and competition programs, not enabling Gun Show Flipper vultures lining their pockets for personal profit (now ask me what I really think about the guys flipping CMP rifles at the gun shows).
Second:
After having carried a M1911A1 for nearly eight years in the US Army, I don't know that anyone would want one of them. This wasn't a single pistol "personally issued" that I took with me everywhere. Small arms are unit property kept in a unit's arms room. It was over a dozen of them as I moved between duty assignments and service schools, plus all the others in the arms rooms of the units I commanded (or was part of the unit's command structure) that I handled and inspected which was probably a several dozen more on top of that. A typical TOE battalion had less than a dozen pistols for its field grade officers and company commanders. I'm certainly not interested in one at any price! All the ones I saw, and it totaled at least 50 or so over the years, rattled more than a New Year's Eve Party noise maker. A combination of having good unit armorers who knew the tricks, and some luck, enabled continuously qualifying Expert with them. The scores were often just barely high enough for Expert as their 25 yard shot patterns weren't anything to brag about. They didn't look very pretty either, more like an ugly step-sister. I wasn't concerned about looks though. I was concerned about them functioning sufficiently to have some confidence I could hit a man's fully exposed torso at 25 yards with it.
Third:
The M1 Garand was replaced by the M14 during 1959-1964, most of them having seen about 15-20 years serivce, even though it included WWII for many of them, and the Korean War for nearly all of them. The U.S. Gov't canceled all M1911A1 contracts at the end of WWII as they already had so many stockpiled and haven't bought a new one since then. It's all been piece parts to keep them functionally operating. The sole exception was the smaller M15 General Officer model made by Rock Island Arsenal after the stockpiles of M1903 and M1908 Pocket Hammerless for personal issue to flag officers were exhausted in the 1970's. All too many think the US Army's M1911A1s were replaced overnight by magic with the Beretta M9 in the mid-1980's. Not humanly possible. They were rolled out with a priorty list specifying the order in which units would receive the M9s as they rolled off Beretta's production lines and were accepted by the US Gov't. There were active army units still using M1911A1s during Desert Storm in 1991. As compared to the M1 Garands, these M1911A1s were all made no later than about 1945-1946 (some much earlier than that), and were in service at least 20-30 years longer, averaging about 40-50 years total service. Furthermore, the USMC's Precision Weapon Section (PWS) at Quantico has been cannibalizing and raiding the government's M1911A1 stockpile to refurbish, rebuild and overhaul the M1911A1s that have been in continuous service in their MEUSOC units, and are continuing to do so as I write this. Those have been in service for over 70 years now. I've seen some photos of them as the USMC finally awarded a contract to replace them with the M45A1 "rail gun", a new 1911 with Picatinny rails just forward of the trigger guard. There are rumors this contract was put on hold or canceled, but they're just that, rumors. I've seen some photos of the M1911A1s the MEUSOC units have been using. Some look like Franken-pistols. One had a Kimber branded slide engraved with the pistol's serial number as it was custom fitted to the Colt's frame. They're fully functional which is what counts, but absolutely butt ugly.
If you're licking your chops at the prospect of getting one of these, don't get your hopes up that very many, if any at all, are in very good condition beyond being functional (i.e. you can load it with cartridges and it will chamber and fire them). As compared to the M1 Garands and M1 Carbines CMP sold, these are going to have substantially greater wear from having been in service decades longer. I'm not planning to buy any of them at any price.
John
I'm glad to see CMP looking at probable market value to put a stop to the Gun Show Flippers that gutted the stocks of M1 Garands and M1 carbines. CMP was not chartered to be a government firearms wholesaler, nor was there ever any intent for it to become one when established by Congress. CMP should be reaping the monetary benefits for their marksmanship and competition programs, not enabling Gun Show Flipper vultures lining their pockets for personal profit (now ask me what I really think about the guys flipping CMP rifles at the gun shows).
Second:
After having carried a M1911A1 for nearly eight years in the US Army, I don't know that anyone would want one of them. This wasn't a single pistol "personally issued" that I took with me everywhere. Small arms are unit property kept in a unit's arms room. It was over a dozen of them as I moved between duty assignments and service schools, plus all the others in the arms rooms of the units I commanded (or was part of the unit's command structure) that I handled and inspected which was probably a several dozen more on top of that. A typical TOE battalion had less than a dozen pistols for its field grade officers and company commanders. I'm certainly not interested in one at any price! All the ones I saw, and it totaled at least 50 or so over the years, rattled more than a New Year's Eve Party noise maker. A combination of having good unit armorers who knew the tricks, and some luck, enabled continuously qualifying Expert with them. The scores were often just barely high enough for Expert as their 25 yard shot patterns weren't anything to brag about. They didn't look very pretty either, more like an ugly step-sister. I wasn't concerned about looks though. I was concerned about them functioning sufficiently to have some confidence I could hit a man's fully exposed torso at 25 yards with it.
Third:
The M1 Garand was replaced by the M14 during 1959-1964, most of them having seen about 15-20 years serivce, even though it included WWII for many of them, and the Korean War for nearly all of them. The U.S. Gov't canceled all M1911A1 contracts at the end of WWII as they already had so many stockpiled and haven't bought a new one since then. It's all been piece parts to keep them functionally operating. The sole exception was the smaller M15 General Officer model made by Rock Island Arsenal after the stockpiles of M1903 and M1908 Pocket Hammerless for personal issue to flag officers were exhausted in the 1970's. All too many think the US Army's M1911A1s were replaced overnight by magic with the Beretta M9 in the mid-1980's. Not humanly possible. They were rolled out with a priorty list specifying the order in which units would receive the M9s as they rolled off Beretta's production lines and were accepted by the US Gov't. There were active army units still using M1911A1s during Desert Storm in 1991. As compared to the M1 Garands, these M1911A1s were all made no later than about 1945-1946 (some much earlier than that), and were in service at least 20-30 years longer, averaging about 40-50 years total service. Furthermore, the USMC's Precision Weapon Section (PWS) at Quantico has been cannibalizing and raiding the government's M1911A1 stockpile to refurbish, rebuild and overhaul the M1911A1s that have been in continuous service in their MEUSOC units, and are continuing to do so as I write this. Those have been in service for over 70 years now. I've seen some photos of them as the USMC finally awarded a contract to replace them with the M45A1 "rail gun", a new 1911 with Picatinny rails just forward of the trigger guard. There are rumors this contract was put on hold or canceled, but they're just that, rumors. I've seen some photos of the M1911A1s the MEUSOC units have been using. Some look like Franken-pistols. One had a Kimber branded slide engraved with the pistol's serial number as it was custom fitted to the Colt's frame. They're fully functional which is what counts, but absolutely butt ugly.
If you're licking your chops at the prospect of getting one of these, don't get your hopes up that very many, if any at all, are in very good condition beyond being functional (i.e. you can load it with cartridges and it will chamber and fire them). As compared to the M1 Garands and M1 Carbines CMP sold, these are going to have substantially greater wear from having been in service decades longer. I'm not planning to buy any of them at any price.
John
Last edited:
People buy things for different reasons. I personally would look at acquiring one because I was one of those who fired expert with it every year...issued just prior to qualifying with moving targets out to 50yrds. It would be just nostalgia, much like buying a Garand because my dad carried one in WWII and Korea and I want him to shoot one once again.
It moves along, from CMP: Congressman Rogers’ amendment passed late last night with the FY2018 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). The legislation will now move to the House floor and go to the Senate. Read more at https://mikerogers.house.gov/press-release/rogers-ndaa-good-east-alabama.
I think JAL summed up how I feel about surplus 1911A1's most are junk. If you feel the need to pay $1000.00 plus go for it. They are mix masters at best. Some with no markings on the slides at all brass bushings in the slide for the firing pins rust so deep It not going to buff out.
If they are junk, hopefully the price will eventually come down on them to reflect that. The first batch will sell out quickly as probably will the second, but if word gets around that they are not worth the grand they are going to start at, maybe follow on batches will come down in cost if they stop moving at $1000. They still hold value though from being a retired service pistol and are better off in the hands of gun enthusiasts than in a smelter's furnace.
I own one that has a traceable history already so these have nothing to offer me. I could better spend 1K on a newer 1911 that I could modify with a clear conscious.
snapping turtle
Grandmaster
plus of late the very best will go to auction all matching number guns ect.
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