COUNTER PROTEST March 24th "March for Our Lives" - VALPARAISO

[brotherbill3]

Huh. So an anti-gun organization can be a 501(C)... so could the NRA be the same? Currently deductions to the NRA are not tax deductible, but apparently donations to Bloomberg's group are.

501(C)(3) - is not allowed to Lobby - 501(C) (4) is ... there was another point about that on the web site and as I recall
- the PRO 2 A Moms - known as
1 Million Moms AGAINST Gun Control (I know them via facebook and trying to partner on good events)
- got them selves this is a 501(C) (4) status as well.

There are differences ... IANAL and I have no clue.

YES The MDA Mad Moms funded by the egomaniac Bloomberg thru Everytown - which set up these marches

- it isn't like the students did it.

 

[Anima mundi]

The above is exactly why it's a crapshoot in holding a counter protest. Some will inevitably take their own notions to heart, rather than the collective community. As such, they will most certainly distract, as they will undoubtedly get all the attention.

the problem is it's really easy to alienate your own allies by doing silly, unnecessary, exclusionary things, like saying "please don't show up to this gun rights support demonstration with a gun."

imo the optics are even worse when you show people you're not even confident enough in your rights to openly, publicly exercise them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

the problem is it's really easy to alienate your own allies by doing silly, unnecessary, exclusionary things, like saying "please don't show up to this gun rights support demonstration with a gun."

imo the optics are even worse when you show people you're not even confident enough in your rights to openly, publicly exercise them.

Honestly, at the end of the day our "allies" will always be "our allies." They're not going become anti-2A because they're offended that a pro-2A rally prefers they carry themselves in a way that is seen as less confrontational. It's the fence sitters, the people who can have their opinions changed, that we are after. I'm fairly confident that showing up with shorty shotguns, ARs strapped to backs, and glocks in thigh holsters, when confronting a group of kids and their parents would do FAR more harm than good.

 

[jamil]

Honestly, at the end of the day our "allies" will always be "our allies." They're not going become anti-2A because they're offended that a pro-2A rally prefers they carry themselves in a way that is seen as less confrontational. It's the fence sitters, the people who can have their opinions changed, that we are after. I'm fairly confident that showing up with shorty shotguns, ARs strapped to backs, and glocks in thigh holsters, when confronting a group of kids and their parents would do FAR more harm than good.

I have to admit that this is the most likely outcome. Most people for whom guns aren't a part of their everyday lives, don't see carrying firearms openly is a normal thing, though that sentiment kinda depends on the region.

I know a number of people who aren't anti-gun zealots, people I've taken to the range with me, people open to seeing the other side of the debate, and the emphasis is on how normal gun ownership is, and that the depiction of us by the anti-gun zealots is really a lie. But they still think that carrying a gun with you everywhere is paranoid, and not rational. That one is winnable too. But that's a separate discussion from the one that's happening now. That discussion is only possible once the point of gun ownership, which is really the point on trial in the public eye, is won.

So it's a harder task to be the reasonable counter-example to the hyperbolic hysteria with an AR strapped to your back. You're not going to change the minds of the rabid protestors on the other side of the street. They're ideologically possessed. But you might change the minds of people watching the spectacle who think rationally about these hyperbolic "blood on their hands" accusations, and see it for the nonsense that it is. So in this circumstance of disinformation, about gun owners, the NRA, pro-2a politicians, how much harder is it to see through the straw monster representation of us whe us doing things they think are irrational?

 

[bwframe]

Glad to hear there are patriots that believe they need to "do something."

That said, I think a counter protest is acknowledging the immaturity/anti-gun protest. We don't need to do that. The more we do as a counter, the more the attention comes back to them. Let them holler and chant stupid lies and . It will show them as the foolish Pelosi/Schumer/Como liberals that are behind them.

If we really need to "do something," wait a few weeks observe the liberal immaturity festering, then plan a celebration of our principles.

April 19th is a famous day in our history. Patriot's Day would be an excellent time to do just that.
Many of us already do celebrate Patriots Day doing 2A related things and have for years.

...If you have someone screaming at you and you can maintain a calm, peaceful demeanor it goes a LOOOOONG way. That might change some minds as somebody on the fence watches their boob tube as some harpy goes all wharbgarble on someone neatly dressed who quietly attempts to engage in peaceful conversation, asking polite questions obviously trying to have a meaningful discussion. I could easily see someone on the fence going "what the hell is wrong with them? He is calmly trying to discuss but she keeps screaming nonsensical questions at him and attacking him...

Besides the fact that we don't need to protest anything, the protest is the tool of the other side. Us showing up to counter their foolish argument only gives them credibility they didn't have in the first place.

Camermonkey's reasoning is solid, optics are everything. What's the chance that we are gonna come out on top of this with children and the media being dictated to by the other side? Lord, we can't even get together on how we want to appear so to NOT intimidate anti-gunners at their own protest.

Some things to keep in mind on optics. If we rise to their bait, they'll catch us.

Did we not learn anything from the CNN antigun ambush that was arguably successful to influence mainstream America? If our girl Dana Leosch hadn't held her own, it could be argued that the anti's were 100% successful with that debacle.

Imagine a handful of "our guys" being surrounded by smart mouth kids whose only mission is to get some video of their rattling of the gun carriers to show that it can be done? Envision yourselves as the riot police at the BLM protests with some of those thugs directly in your face, screaming disrespectful obscenities?

There is no ground that we can gain by showing up at any protest. We should pick a date to celebrate our freedom and the Second Amendment with a rally or something of the sort. A rally where even our "tape it to your head" OC ONLY folks won't be out of place.

 

[jamil]

Every placard that says "Gun owners have blood on their hands", needs to be met with assertive reality.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

501(C)(3) - is not allowed to Lobby - 501(C) (4) is ... there was another point about that on the web site and as I recall
- the PRO 2 A Moms - known as
1 Million Moms AGAINST Gun Control (I know them via facebook and trying to partner on good events)
- got them selves this is a 501(C) (4) status as well.

There are differences ... IANAL and I have no clue.

YES The MDA Mad Moms funded by the egomaniac Bloomberg thru Everytown - which set up these marches

- it isn't like the students did it.

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know about the lobbying restrictions and was just wondering why the NRA or the legal arm NRA-ILA wasn't organized as such to possibly encourage more donations.

I have thought from the beginning of this latest round of marches and protests that there were others in the background pulling the strings. Not that high school kids can't have an opinion or be passionate about something, but this just doesn't feel like a "grass roots" movement. More like a "if I do this I'll get more 'Likes' or 'Followers' or 'Re-tweets' movement."

 

[Bobby]

Besides the fact that we don't need to protest anything, the protest is the tool of the other side. Us showing up to counter their foolish argument only gives them credibility they didn't have in the first place.

Camermonkey's reasoning is solid, optics are everything. What's the chance that we are gonna come out on top of this with children and the media being dictated to by the other side? Lord, we can't even get together on how we want to appear so to NOT intimidate anti-gunners at their own protest.

Some things to keep in mind on optics. If we rise to their bait, they'll catch us.

Did we not learn anything from the CNN antigun ambush that was arguably successful to influence mainstream America? If our girl Dana Leosch hadn't held her own, it could be argued that the anti's were 100% successful with that debacle.

Imagine a handful of "our guys" being surrounded by smart mouth kids whose only mission is to get some video of their rattling of the gun carriers to show that it can be done? Envision yourselves as the riot police at the BLM protests with some of those thugs directly in your face, screaming disrespectful obscenities?

There is no ground that we can gain by showing up at any protest. We should pick a date to celebrate our freedom and the Second Amendment with a rally or something of the sort. A rally where even our "tape it to your head" OC ONLY folks won't be out of place.

Dana Leosch's calm demeanor among that screaming mob hurling insults is what motivated people to join the NRA out of spite. Imagine what would happen if our "side" started doing the same thing at a counter rally? If you were on the fence on gun control, would a howling group of people encourage you to join them or push you the other way? This is why I said earlier that whatever you do, do not respond with insults or anger at the people coming to the March for Life rally.

Someone a few posts back posted about a successful stand-alone pro-2nd Amendment rally. Yes, this rally was organized in response to the national gun control talk going on. However, it would be much harder to spin this one in a negative light since there were no gun control proponents nearby. I myself would be much more likely to go to a stand-alone rally than one where there is a likelihood of direct confrontation with protestors from the other side.

 

[jamil]

The counter message that's needed is calmly proclaiming:

"We are caring, loving, parents too."

"We want what's best for children, too."

"We hurt for the lives lost, too."

"We want to end the violence, too."

"We just don't think your solution will accomplish that."

 

[brotherbill3]

Glad to hear there are patriots that believe they need to "do something."

That said, I think a counter protest is acknowledging the immaturity/anti-gun protest. We don't need to do that. The more we do as a counter, the more the attention comes back to them. Let them holler and chant stupid lies and . It will show them as the foolish Pelosi/Schumer/Como liberals that are behind them.

If we really need to "do something," wait a few weeks observe the liberal immaturity festering, then plan a celebration of our principles.

April 19th is a famous day in our history. Patriot's Day would be an excellent time to do just that.
Many of us already do celebrate Patriots Day doing 2A related things and have for years.

I doubt any of them know what April 19 is or its significance ... something we all should know.

Also - letting them have the full speaker to themselves - does nothing ...
We hide and those opposed have full run of what people "Perceive" - that leads to failure - look at how many thing there is a registry?
why - TV, media - ("unregistered gun") ... etc.
Who carries guns ("only bad guys carry guns" ) ... etc.

it leads to no where. It is why letting them see guns as a normal thing - is important -
part of why I will and do OC my EDC regularly. ... and why I will stop and have a conversation about carrying/guns (appleseed/revere's) etc.


OK I NOMINATE APRIL 20 for our first PRO 2A rally - the date is actually significant - April 20 1775; - Boston Population = 15,000.
General Gage wakes that morning and his city is surrounded by 15,000 patriots ... holding him in siege. ...

 

[cbhausen]

I doubt any of them know what April 19 is or its significance ... something we all should know.

Also - letting them have the full speaker to themselves - does nothing ...
We hide and those opposed have full run of what people "Perceive" - that leads to failure - look at how many thing there is a registry?
why - TV, media - ("unregistered gun") ... etc.
Who carries guns ("only bad guys carry guns" ) ... etc.

it leads to no where. It is why letting them see guns as a normal thing - is important -
part of why I will and do OC my EDC regularly. ... and why I will stop and have a conversation about carrying/guns (appleseed/revere's) etc.


OK I NOMINATE APRIL 20 for our first PRO 2A rally - the date is actually significant - April 20 1775; - Boston Population = 15,000.
General Gage wakes that morning and his city is surrounded by 15,000 patriots ... holding him in siege. ...

My “Modern Musket” and I approve...

 

[brotherbill3]

My “Modern Musket” and I approve...

yeah - now if I had time and resources to make that happen - the 21st is my grandson's LL BB opening day and I help coach rec and travel with him. ...
Open Mouth Insert Foot.

 

[cbhausen]

Let’s do this..

 

[KellyinAvon]

Barring an emergency I'll be there. Just need the where.

 

[cbhausen]

Can one of you patriots start a feeler thread? I can’t at work. Thanks.

 

[bwframe]

Monday April 16th is a Federal holiday recognizing Patriots Day/Emancipation Day.

 

[brotherbill3]

Monday April 16th is a Federal holiday recognizing Patriots Day/Emancipation Day.

this could work too. I was looking at like Patriot's Day - and it follows up the NEXT "March for our Lives" too. ... instead of direct counter. but either day is a weekday. And the IGA is not in session. ... let me think on this and run up some flag Poles.

To the OP - didn't mean to distract - brainstorming out loud here.

 

[Newhoosier]

I just found out about this yesterdayish. I'm off on Saturday and planed on attending. I remember this movie called innocents betrayed that spells out why people have guns. I wish I had the ability to explain to anti gunners that having guns actually keeps them saver. The armed American citizen is the largest standing army in world history. A history antigunners don't know and wont hear.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The counter message that's needed is calmly proclaiming:

"We are caring, loving, parents too."

"We want what's best for children, too."

"We hurt for the lives lost, too."

"We want to end the violence, too."

"We just don't think your solution will accomplish that."

That would make a good protest sign.

(except maybe the last line "making something illegal does not PREVENT crime.")

 

[jamil]

That would make a good protest sign.

(except maybe the last line "making something illegal does not PREVENT crime.")