Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Dead

[j706]

Joe - This issue of homosexuality and the military has been beaten to death on INGO. The OP and the second poster are most often the initiator and/or the facilitator. Seems that they have some agenda. Their wealth of experience of what is right for the military services must come from some divine source.

Absolutely correct. It has got me wondering

 

[PatriotPride]

The Courts are continually over-stepping their boundaries. Anyone who thinks this ruling is a positive thing for our country needs to examine the Constitution a bit more closely.

 

[PatriotPride]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been visited by the all-mighty LOCK HAMMER. Seems like homosexuality is a touchy subject.

 

[mrjarrell]

The Courts are continually over-stepping their boundaries. Anyone who thinks this ruling is a positive thing for our country needs to examine the Constitution a bit more closely.

Just remember that, in this case, the initiating party were a republican group.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I have no agenda other than ensuring that ANYONE who wants to serve their country CAN, despite sexual preference.

Divine source? The only thing that could even be considered "divine" is the hopeless clinging to an archaic and inappropriate values such as homophobia. "It sez' it in the Bible, I don't want no gays in my Army" is what I have been seeing, not necessarily here but in common discourse in the nation regarding DODT. They couple homosexuality with ineffectiveness, as if gays are some sexually rampaging animal that cannot control their libido and innuendos.

I dont need "service" to be any different or skilled in my opinion. Its the idea that someone who has military service is vastly superior to anyone else that gets me. My fav is a Marine I know that gasses on and on about how great he is, how he can kill instantaneously, how much "honor" or "discipline" they have compared to the average citizen, but can't keep a job down for more than a week because he "thinks they suck" or insert some other inanity here. I dont have a low regard for military folks, quite the opposite. I have low regard for folks that think themselves better than anyone else due to it.

But, I am just a facilitator, nothing more in the eyes of the war heros here. I'm out...

 

[PatriotPride]

Just remember that, in this case, the initiating party were a republican group.

Not an issue to me

Republican---takes you out to dinner and a movie before date-raping you. Democrat---slips a roofie in your drink 5 minutes after meeting and says "trust me, you'll like it".

Same end result, just different methods.

 

[Expat]

Im sure that if a straight soldier over seas for a year was suddenly next to a naked woman in the shower he would more than likely not be able to control himself. Same goes for a shower full of naked gay men. But what I am saying if you cannot read all that well is that one gay guy in a shower room with straight men is not going to try and have sex with them, he would get his a** kicked for that one.

You seem to be saying that homosexuals are superior to straight men in controlling themselves. You say the straight men will be unable to control themselves and (I guess) attack the naked women. But not the homosexuals. They will just look and not try to engage in some form of sodomy. I never got the impression that were so self controlled. Good to know. Perhaps we should take all the straights out and just put homosexuals in the field of battle since they are so superior.

 

[r3126]

While I disagree with DADT, and I agree that gay soldiers should be allowed to serve, I have a problem with a judge making such a ruling on a "constitutional right" that doesn't exist. There's no "right" to serve in the military. That standard is set by Congress and the military. This is a problem for the legislative and executive branches, not the judicial branch.

dross - I agree with DADT. That being said, you hit the nail on the head and got rid of all of the emotion. This is a problem for the legislative and executive branches, not the judicial branch.

 

[Bigum1969]

I think it will be a welcome addition to our military when we quit giving a what someone's sexual preference is.

 

[Praetorian13]

You seem to be saying that homosexuals are superior to straight men in controlling themselves. You say the straight men will be unable to control themselves and (I guess) attack the naked women. But not the homosexuals. They will just look and not try to engage in some form of sodomy. I never got the impression that were so self controlled. Good to know. Perhaps we should take all the straights out and just put homosexuals in the field of battle since they are so superior.

I am not saying anyone is superior to anyone else if you can read. How many stories have you heard of a gay soldier raping another man in the military? But wait......there are tons of stories where straight soldiers "attack" a woman and rape her. But obviously you don't have a point in this argument because you cannot bring anything valid to it, but just keep saying the same things over and over again.

 

[r3126]

I dont need "service" to be any different or skilled in my opinion. Its the idea that someone who has military service is vastly superior to anyone else that gets me.

Same old stuff! "I don't have any personal knowledge or experience but my (uninformed) opinion on a military issue is just as good as someone who has 4 or 6 or 10 or more years of personal knowledge and experience on which his (informed) opinion is based."

 

[mrjarrell]

dross - I agree with DADT. That being said, you hit the nail on the head and got rid of all of the emotion. This is a problem for the legislative and executive branches, not the judicial branch.

It would normally be a case for the legislative or executive branches. The problem is that they have failed to address it, time and again. Events such as this have happened before, where the courts stepped in to correct a breach of rights. Brown vs. Board of Education comes immediately to mind. It ended an egregious policy while congress and the executive dithered. Sometimes Rights won't wait and they need a kick in the ribs that a court is willing to give them. The judge in this case actually delayed implementation of her ruling, in an attempt to give the executive and legislative branches a chance to make things right. They failed and the judge acted.

 

[r3126]

It would normally be a case for the legislative or executive branches. The problem is that they have failed to address it, time and again. Events such as this have happened before, where the courts stepped in to correct a breach of rights. Brown vs. Board of Education comes immediately to mind. It ended an egregious policy while congress and the executive dithered. Sometimes Rights won't wait and they need a kick in the ribs that a court is willing to give them. The judge in this case actually delayed implementation of her ruling, in an attempt to give the executive and legislative branches a chance to make things right. They failed and the judge acted.

We HAVE found something we can agree on. Sometimes the legislative or executive branches need a kick in the a$$.

 

[booey50]

someone explain to me how one little federal judge can tell the whole country what to do??? this makes no sense to me at all...

 

[Disposable Heart]

Same old stuff! "I don't have any personal knowledge or experience but my (uninformed) opinion on a military issue is just as good as someone who has 4 or 6 or 10 or more years of personal knowledge and experience on which his (informed) opinion is based."

But do I need military service to tell me that homophobia is wrong? Do I need military service to tell me that my ACTUAL experience in working with homosexuals is bunk? I dont think so. I have looked into this as I am extremely against any homophobia, despite it's source. I have worked with homosexual coworkers that were openly gay, sometimes in stressful situations. If one cannot overlook homosexuality while serving, how are they going to handle working with other races? How about ACTUAL stress where they are pitted against other cultures? Naw, they just rely on what the goons above them tell them, just spew off some racial epitates to dehumanized your enemy and go on about whatever we tell you.

It's traditional gay bashing at it's greatest, pure and simple. Elitism based on sexual preference. I am willing to bet folks like that also LOVE to look down on others based on race as well, how about education level? Economic level? Why not bring a "class" system based on some Heinlein novel while we are at it? Doesn't matter what you have done, your opinion (even when researched, not necessarily military service) means nothing because you aren't some chest thumping military type?

 

[Disposable Heart]

It would normally be a case for the legislative or executive branches. The problem is that they have failed to address it, time and again. Events such as this have happened before, where the courts stepped in to correct a breach of rights. Brown vs. Board of Education comes immediately to mind. It ended an egregious policy while congress and the executive dithered. Sometimes Rights won't wait and they need a kick in the ribs that a court is willing to give them. The judge in this case actually delayed implementation of her ruling, in an attempt to give the executive and legislative branches a chance to make things right. They failed and the judge acted.

I will disagree with the way the action was reached, we and others are in agreement with that. Social pressures should have made for changes in the military, not the judicial itself.

Government should change because society and voters demand it, not out of fear of a court order.

 

[PatriotPride]

It's not homophobia to call homosexuality what it is: a perversion. I don't hate homosexuals---I find their behavior and political lobbying repulsive, but I don't hate the person.

The "homophobia" card gets played MUCH too often by the PC Liberals. It's a word that's thrown out when there is little in the way of substantive argument.

 

[Expat]

The "homophobia" card gets played MUCH too often by the PC Liberals. It's a word that's thrown out when there is little in the way of substantive argument.

Same ilk that likes to call racist. They want to shut down any viewpoint other than their own.

 

[Disposable Heart]

It's not homophobia to call homosexuality what it is: a perversion. I don't hate homosexuals---I find their behavior and political lobbying repulsive, but I don't hate the person.

The "homophobia" card gets played MUCH too often by the PC Liberals. It's a word that's thrown out when there is little in the way of substantive argument.

Why is it a perversion? What is it about homosexuality that brings out the sickening concept? Politics? No different than the right to life scum that bomb clinics and murder abortionists. How about the Southern Baptists that rally at funerals of soldiers? Pretty disgusting to me and many others. Religion? Please. Religion has been the rally cry of ignorance and murderers all over the world, NOT just Islam either.

Why run to the "perversion" card? I will agree with you that the homophobia card is used too much, but I have to call it when I see it. Animals in the wild have exhibited homosexual behaviors and "God" made them too! Perversion? What system is used as the base to consider homosexuality as a perversion or abnormality, giving it a negative connotation?

Basing "perversion" on religion or the Bible (or Koran, or Jewish texts or book dujour) is an arguement based on pathos and holds little water when society demands logos.

 

[dross]

Hmmm In my fairly long military career I never knew of one single pole smoker. Perhaps a service branch or MOS difference? Homosexuality is wrong on all counts. I don't care what anyone thinks about it. It is as un natural as sticking your hand in a fire. It is disgusting and warped IMO. Your average US soldier or Marine will not tolerate them within their ranks.

Army, 1982 to 1993. 307th Combat Engineer Battalion, 82nd Airborne Division, early 1983 to late 1985. The rest of my career I was an electronic technician on the HAWK guided missile system.

Does any of that explain why I knew who the homosexuals were and you didn't?