Family's dog shot while "trespassing"

[elaw555]

What I noticed from the FOX news video...the beginning of the blood trail was in the corner of the field. The dog seems to have been surrounded by fence on two sides, and the only avenue of retreat was towards the killer. Sound like an aggressive dog?...or one that was attempting to retreat from a threat.

Many have posted here that they have shot strays or aggressive dogs that were causing or threatened to cause damage, either monetary or otherwise. I have no problem with that. I hope while doing so we are being as reasonable and careful as the situation allows to positively identify the dog and not go shooting collared, tagged, dogs, just because they happen to be in the wrong place.

What I see from some in this thread as a desire, almost a psychopathic need, to kill an animal is no more or less a human failure as those that view and treat their dogs as more than great pets that provide companionship to them. Both sides have their priorities and motivations out of whack.

 

[grizman]

What I noticed from the FOX news video...the beginning of the blood trail was in the corner of the field. The dog seems to have been surrounded by fence on two sides, and the only avenue of retreat was towards the killer. Sound like an aggressive dog?...or one that was attempting to retreat from a threat.

I was thinking that was a gate at the corner. I went back and watched it full screen the dog was cornered. Blood trail heavier in the corner and fades toward the brush pile.
The evidence points to the fact the shooter pursued the dog, there for he was the not threatened or in danger. He committed the class D felony and deserves to be called on it. But it happened in Henry county and would require an investigation so don't hold your breath.
Back in 97, in Henry Co, my wifes truck was broken into vandalized and an attempt was made to steal it, when that failed everything in the truck was stolen. My wife called the SD they came took the report but refused to take finger prints including the bloody ones, pictures and even a sample of the blood left on and in the truck from where the thief cut himself crawling through the slider window after he broke it out. My wife had left in the truck, truck locked, some race car parts she picked up for me to have when I came home on leave the next week. About 4k worth stolen + 1.5k damaged, so we are not talking petty theft. But they told her it wasn't worth the time or tax payers money thats what our insurance was for.

 

[Wabatuckian]

How about someone who shoots his own dog as a form of discipline?

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Josh

 

[CarmelHP]

Either way 6 times in the head and a Lab to boot! Statistically one of the safest least aggressive dogs. I smell fish!

My wife's parents have a lab, and it's about 150 of energy that chases any animal it sees and will growl and bark when confronted. If I saw a goofy bastard like that mutt running around near my animals or kids, I'd shoot it. It's easy to sit at a keyboard and say that it's "non-aggressive," but it was on that man's property, he was there, and none of you or I were, so, for now, I'll take his word for it.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Who said it was 6 times?

I think I read on another link there was an autopsy. I'll see if I can fish it up for you, if you'd like. There was independent confirmation, anyway.

My problem is the shooter won't release a statement. I can understand not getting on camera -- I wouldn't -- but I'd think he'd be smart enough to know they'd take whatever footage of him they could get and make him look like an *******. As well, it would seem he tried to cover it up.

If the dog was doing damage, yes, shoot it. But there's been no clarification on that point, and I'd expect him to call the police.

I fired at my neighbor's dogs (one was a lab) when they rushed me on my land. I immediately went in and called the sheriff's dept.

The neighbor was pissed, and came over looking for a confrontation.

When the deputy got there, he asked me if I wanted to press charges. I told him no. He then proceeded to explain my rights of self-defense to my neighbor, who couldn't decide whether to be pissed or ashamed, and told him he was writing it up as "dogs running at large."

I've since made peace with the dogs. Awesome critters. Still bad blood with the neighbor.

What folks don't understand is that when dogs go "red", it's a primal thing, and there's no bringing them out of it. They are in the process of the attack at this point. A dousing of water MIGHT do it, but mostly this is time to use force.

Still, I'd rather shoot a human than a dog (and I hope that statement doesn't come back to haunt me). Humans are responsible for their actions. Dogs work on instinct, and God never made a more loyal animal than a dog.

Josh

 

[Compatriot G]

The guy who shot the dog did make a statement to the local paper. I would link to it, however the local paper requires you to pay for a subscription before you can read any content on their site. However, the guy says he tried to get the dog to leave his property for 45 minutes by shooting into the air. Then he says the dog was barking at his dog in the house and frightening his cats. From what I have read on Facebook, he was inside of his house before he went back out to shoot the dog.

I'm not seeing aggression from the dog, necessarily. If you were outside for 45 minutes firing a .22 rifle in the air and the dog didn't attack you, then I'm not sure you can say it was a case of self defense.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

He's a lying sack of ****.. that dog was no threat to him or anyone else.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Funny the things you can find on the internet...

WhitePages

 

[ocsdor]

Funny the things you can find on the internet... WhitePages

When you get done with that dog owner, are you going over to Salem to burn some witches?

 

[skyman]

Maybe it was still flippin around.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Well I haven't read any stats in over 15 years but the ones I do most certainly recall stated that Labs are responsible for more bites than any other breed. perhaps it is due strictly to the larger number of them out there...Now it seems with all the fuss over "pitbulls" that those stats (or any other "real" stats) are difficult to find. I do not blame either party in this, as I for one would most definitely shoot a dog on MY property if it is acting in a manner that I feel to be aggressive. I have small children to protect. In fact when my neighbors dog escapes and finds itself on my property I hold it by the collar with my pistol at its head until the owner retrieves it ( this only happened once, neighbor got the message). I have also experienced problem owners that refuse to abide by the laws or my rights and won't control their property (dog) even after MULTIPLE warnings. This has usually resulted from dogs in my trash, etc... I will make reasonable efforts to avoid killing a neighbors pet, however I also WILL kill your dog if it is aggressive or you won't control it and keep it out of my garage or trash. Key thing to remember here folks, from a legal standpoint, a dog is PROPERTY and nothing more.

 

[elaw555]

Well I haven't read any stats in over 15 years but the ones I do most certainly recall stated that Labs are responsible for more bites than any other breed. perhaps it is due strictly to the larger number of them out there...Now it seems with all the fuss over "pitbulls" that those stats (or any other "real" stats) are difficult to find.

Used my Google-Fu (all five minutes it took me to find this) and found the following from the CDC.

From 1979 to 1998 Labrador retrievers were found to be involved in 5 total deaths by dog bite. Pit Bulls were involved in 76, Rottweilers in 44, German Shepherds in 27, and Huskys in 21. I would be surprised if the bite statistics differed greatly from the fatality statistics.

In fact when my neighbors dog escapes and finds itself on my property I hold it by the collar with my pistol at its head until the owner retrieves it ( this only happened once, neighbor got the message).

You. Are. Kidding.
You have to be kidding. The neighbors dog wandered into your property and you held a gun to it's head. All so the neighbor got "the message"? Did you look like one of these guys while giving your neighbor "the message"?

The image of a "tough guy" like you threatening a dog that wasn't aggressive towards you to harrass, intimidate, and threaten your neighbor is almost comical enough to make me forget about the world of hurt you could have found yourself in. If you consider dogs property then I guess I could have, under IN state law, used reasonable force to prevent you from destroying my property. Since I see you have a gun and seem to be threatening me I could then have justified using deadly force to prevent you from causing any injury to me. As temporarily painful as that situation might have been, the more likely situation is that I take a video of you threatening me and my dog with a firearm. I call the police and, long story short (just ask Bill B) you either get lucky and spend close to 7 grand to clear your good name, or the justice system comes down very hard on you.

The huge problem here, is that when you think with your, um...member, and not with your head, you don't just hurt yourself. The whole gun nut myth that always follows gun owners, that we try so hard to fight, was just reinforced by your need to let your neighbor know that you are "the man". So thanks...

 

[Jack Ryan]

how do you get 6 head shots? I mean even with a .22 there isn't going to be much head left to shoot....

You've never shot one have you.

That's rhetorical, I KNOW you haven't.

“I stumbled onto a blood trail in a man’s field by the name of Tony Williams and at the time I didn’t really know for sure if it was in fact my dog or not,” Jimmy Jessie said.

In what language is stumbled the same as tresspassed? Obviously the dog owner doesn't have an adequate understanding of the English language and it cost the dog his life.

 

[grimor]

You've never shot one have you.

That's rhetorical, I KNOW you haven't.



In what language is stumbled the same as tresspassed? Obviously the dog owner doesn't have an adequate understanding of the English language and it cost the dog his life.

No, I've never shot a dog in the head 6 times, after the first shot they just fall over and twitch.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

From 1979 to 1998 Labrador retrievers were found to be involved in 5 total deaths by dog bite.

You don't read so well huh? I clearly said

Well I haven't read any stats in over 15 years but the ones I do most certainly recall stated that Labs are responsible for more bites than any other breed.

You certainly are entitled to an opinion. I am also entitled to think you are ignorant for it. Just so you fully understand, we are in a HOA that forbids dogs from running loose. We had been here all of about a week. I have SMALL children worth more to me than your life or my neighbors dogs life. My neighbor was NEVER threatened. My neighbors dog is a PITBULL. I stand firmly by EVERYTHING in my earlier post.

The image of a "tough guy" like you threatening a dog that wasn't aggressive towards you to harrass, intimidate, and threaten your neighbor is almost comical enough to make me forget about the world of hurt you could have found yourself in.

This actually proves your ignorance to me. I never stated anything about the dogs mannerism, you assume it wasn't aggressive just as you assume the intent was to intimidate, harass or threaten.

If you consider dogs property then I guess I could have, under IN state law, used reasonable force to prevent you from destroying my property.

I don't consider dogs property, the LAW does. I suppose your dog is your child? Your baby? You also could get dead really quick unless your draw is quicker than my trigger. I really get a kick out of you people that jump to conclusions and insert your own pre-conceived notions of a situation without knowing squat.

I don't think I have an actual need to justify my action to you, but here's a bit more background for those that think they know everything.
My children (2 and 5 years old) were playing on our property and an unknown pitbull begins running around wildly growling and barking. Since we are in a HOA that disallows free running dogs, I have NO idea if this is a stray or a family pet that escaped and quite frankly don't care since a mauled child is still a mauled child either way. I am NOT willing to take chances where my actual CHILDREN are concerned and will kill a thousand dogs (or people for that matter) rather than let harm come to them. I tackled the dog to stop it from running around and possibly turning its attention toward my little girls. Now, since this is an UNKNOWN dog and a PITBULL at that, I held my pistol on the ANIMAL in the event it should turn on ME. I would have been WELL within my legal right to shoot the dog rather than subdue and detain it, but thought I'd be a good neighbor and let the guy yelling for his dog retrieve it. I think that when he saw me both protecting my CHILDREN from an unknown threat and still ALLOWING his ANIMAL to live that he quite possibly got the message that I protect my family. Had he decided to attempt any sort of force or violence it would have been on MY property and would have ended VERY badly for him and his DOG. Is that clear enough for ya? BTW, I'll do it again if put in a similar situation and I hope for your sake that it isn't YOUR dog because you have already told me what your reaction would be.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Hey, here's a thought. If you DON'T carry and use your gun to protect you and yours then WTF do you use it for? Looking badazz? Attempting to be COOL and fit in somewhere? I personally keep and bear arms for the purpose of protecting and defending myself and my family from threats both known AND unknown, foreign AND domestic.

 

[paddling_man]

I love dogs. Really, I do.

Heck, back in college I worked for the Humane Society. (TN.) I was, after a national certification, the chief cruelty investigator and served in court as an "expert witness." This particular Humane Society placed a higher number of animals than any other agency in the southeast. Still, we had contracts with both the City and County animal control and we received every animal they picked up. It could be up to 150 a day. (Summertime.) We typically got about 16,000 animals per year.

We had a capacity of about 250 animals in our shelter. When the three-day legal-hold was up, they were either deemed adoptable or euthanized. Even "adoptable" animals were euthanized if there was no space available.

My final job? Shelter Manager. Along with staffing, pharmaceutical and investigative/seizure duties... my lasting duty was to decide who lived and died every **** day. Yep... I would go thru the kennels and make an approximation of incoming that day, look at who was no longer under a "legal hold" then decide who must go to make room. A downward arrow marked in Sharpie on their "kennel card" (intake card with date, details, etc.) and they were moved to the back where eventually a person doing "euth," along with an assist, would euthanize the dog/cat/puppy/kitten/emu/pig/bunny with an overdose of sodium pentobarbitol injected either IV or IM.

Since I was a "responsible" boss and I had made the decision, I usually took that "euth" duty too.

I was 26.

I'm 41 now.

It nearly took my soul and still haunts me today. I've gone into enough detail but if ya really want, I can tally again the number of dogs/cat that died directly by my hand before being placed in a giant walk-in freezer in a biohazard bag until the "body man" came to pick them up three times a week. We're way into four figures and could easily be touching five.

There were cruelty cases. Sick ******** who, if they could torture an animal like I saw thru evidence, were a danger to all around them.

My biggest frustration was with "pet owners." The losers who kept dumping off dogs/puppies/cats/kittens because of unwanted litters, moving and the "new apartment doesn't allow pets," they "grew too big," etc.. Those same POS made me have to make the decisions I made every day that led me to drink too much then and paddle progressively harder and harder whitewater in an attempt to forget, if even for a little while. Crap that began to border on self-destructive behavior.

Let's not forget the animal "collectors," or "hoarders" as they've now become known. The horror I've seen in some of those environments. That's stuff my wife tells me isn't fit for polite company. One of my "brushes with the infamous" was Anna Sandu Ray. An Artist. Worked as a court reporter/stenographer/something. She married one of those being tried. James Early Ray. Yep, the MLK James Earl Ray. Well, I had to extensively deal with this... individual and her 60 little maltese living in a ramshackle house, abandoned cars, cannabalizing one another and inches of dried excrement on the floor.

One of several.


That was a couple of decades ago. I've been a broadcast engineer, after finishing school, and nothing lives-or-dies based on the decisions I make every day. Every day is now a "good day."

Now to my current job: broadcast engineer for a couple of decades. Ya wanna know what sells ratings? Animals, kids and sex/intrigue. Ratings.

You may love the animal like one of your kids. In the current day, companion animals *are* often proxies for children with childless adults. They are still considered property. Property you must have under control. I lived in "deep country" for a few years. I met many folks who were self-sufficient and took care of themselves and their responsibilities. I met a bunch more who were worthless POS who were as bad as any multi-generational-welfare-inner-city-garbage.

Was the shooter in this case excessive? At first blush yes but we *don't* know the rest of the story. This dog could have been constantly loose and harassing livestock or children.

Was it aggressive? Typically labs were not. Chowbadors (lab-chows) were nasty aggressive dogs. Labs that are great with people will often eat chickens like nobody's tomorrow. (A phrase I learned in the South.)

We don't know the facts and likely never will. A full scale witch hunt is going to be about as responsible as a house-burning ostracism of a woman and toy gun.

Bottom line? Know your neighbors. Develop respect between each of you. Know that the law demands that domestic animals are legally property and your responsibility. Especially if they're doing damage/harm and are out of your control.

There are animal-torturing whackos out there. Folks for whom cruelty is a high and it is only a short bound from torturing an animal to torturing a human. Still, POS, irresponsible pet owners outnumber them many, many times to one.

For the record - the last time I looked over a decade ago, the number one "biters" on an annual basis were dalmatians and cocker spaniels. "Fear biters." Not maulers.

 

[Jack Ryan]

No, I've never shot a dog in the head 6 times, after the first shot they just fall over and twitch.

I'd be surprised if you've ever shot one period, in the head or any where else. Once or any other number.

 

[rhart]

I type this from my bed while my Chocolate lab is snuggled against my feet. I love dogs. Personaly, If I could get away with it, Id sooner shoot some dirtbag thief than a trespassing dog. However, I found myself on the othe side of the fence this fall. We have a neighbor that borders our cabin property where we hunt. He has a sheppard that he lets run free all the time. He constantly is on my property running deer and twice last year tried to breed my lab while she was tied out. Then the first of July that damn dog caught a baby button buck and killed it. I went down to very politely ask the guy to keep his dog pinned up at least on the weekends so he wouldnt molest our hunting. He just said that he couldnt stop the dog from going where he wants or chasing deer. Well, in hast I said well if I see him chasing deer on my property then I will kill it. I shouldnt have said it and I later appologized, and I wouldnt shoot his dog. I have had hunting dogs all for 35 years and you cannot keep them in control 100 percent of the time, period. SO I guess I have seen a little of both sides. My initial feelings were that the shooter was a Sh#t bag. Labs are not aggresive but hey, maybe he warned this guy a hunderd times and it was chasing his livestock. We just dont know. Still, pretty heartless to do that. Personnaly, I called the Game Warden and have him on my side. I also have video of the dog running loose and the game warden has written him a warning and will ticket him . Lucky for me, he is a bowhunter. My heart goes out to the Lab. Im sure you can cut the tension with a knife around there right now.

 

[x10]

Game wardens won't touch domestic animals, unless there is immediate danger most sheriff or Police wont touch domestic animals, Animal control officers are usually a very tiny part of the law enforcement budget

I don't understand this thread, if this had been a teenager on crack who was sitting in the bushes and had a stick in his hand and yelling people on this board would be yelling yippeee another bad guy down,

But were talking an animal sitting in the bushes with a full set of teeth and growling and its wrong to kill it,

Disney and Hollywood has distorted peoples morals

It's our responsibility to take care of the animals of the earth but that does not mean we become bunny huggers,

At the end of the day if the animals would have been in their own yard there would not have been a problem. People will pay hundreds of dollars for a dog but not spend a dime on an Invisible fence, or quality dog run.

End of story if you want no problems find a way to keep your animals on your property.

Substitute a pet bull for the dog, Hey the pet bull was raised from a calf and it loved running up to you and rubbing its head on you belly because it loved you, How could anybody kill a pet bull just for running up to get a head rub.

Don't try to justify you not doing your job as a pet owner, Or get over it if you don't want to put the effort into keeping your animals up accept what could happen and git over it.