Fear of non-external safety

[Roadie]

???

To each is own but....

That is not my definition of to each his own

Maybe its a matter of practice, but on my Beretta's, by the time i clear the holster and bring to to bear on a target, I have more than enough time to flip the external safety. I am more worried about the person that thinks they can deploy in a heated situation and because of that belief considers themselves superior to the rest of the gun toters (those of us on the other end of the "but") than the person that actually has and in the internet world, most think much higher of their degree of coolness under stress than I do. But

to each his own

How do you know you will have more than enough time?

I can tell you from personal experience, after a couple different training classes, that even in the controlled environment of a class there were several of us that either missed or forgot the safety during a high stress drill once or twice. And that as JUST a drill...

I dont think there is a right or wrong here, do what's comfortable for you, but accept the fact that mistakes with the safety DO happen..

Some of us just prefer to cut any steps out of the process we can.

 

[markiemark]

I figure the less parts to the gun, the lower the chances for something to malfunction. But it really comes down to personal preference and how much your willing to practice with it.

 

[INyooper]

It really is a training issue. If everyone's only choice was a 1911, we'd all be able to train ourselves to manipulate the thumb safety while drawing and there would be very little discussion about it. Besides, if you couldn't deal with a thumb safety, well ...you'd eventually die ...and we'd all be thanking Darwin for thinning out the gene pool.

That people identify so strongly about their personal choices oozes out of these sort of discussions like jelly out of a Krispy Kreeme. Who'd have ever thought that things like caliber, design, and manufacture would be so polarizing??? Oh yeah, Ford, Chevy, Miller, Bud ...yadda, yadda, yadda...

FWIW, I'm one of the irresponsible people who endanger others by owning a firearm with no external safeties. Then again, I'm in good company....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfkcUqZMZ94

 

[kingnereli]

How do you know you will have more than enough time?

I can tell you from personal experience, after a couple different training classes, that even in the controlled environment of a class there were several of us that either missed or forgot the safety during a high stress drill once or twice. And that as JUST a drill...

I dont think there is a right or wrong here, do what's comfortable for you, but accept the fact that mistakes with the safety DO happen..

Some of us just prefer to cut any steps out of the process we can.

"More than enough time" means that the safety is off by the time the gun levels out. The gun isn't fired until it is on target. That safety is off well before that.

Regarding mistakes during a drill, that's what we've been saying the whole time. It's about training. I'f you're making mistakes it isn't second nature yet. You train till the mistakes don't happen yet. You need to accept that fact that it is some people have training to the extent that they can deploy a safe weapon without error.

 

[kingnereli]

It really is a training issue. If everyone's only choice was a 1911, we'd all be able to train ourselves to manipulate the thumb safety while drawing and there would be very little discussion about it. Besides, if you couldn't deal with a thumb safety, well ...you'd eventually die ...and we'd all be thanking Darwin for thinning out the gene pool.

That people identify so strongly about their personal choices oozes out of these sort of discussions like jelly out of a Krispy Kreeme. Who'd have ever thought that things like caliber, design, and manufacture would be so polarizing??? Oh yeah, Ford, Chevy, Miller, Bud ...yadda, yadda, yadda...

FWIW, I'm one of the irresponsible people who endanger others by owning a firearm with no external safeties. Then again, I'm in good company....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfkcUqZMZ94

At least you are willing to admit it. That is rare. I won't go into the rationalization of dismissing a valid point by claiming that the people making it are merely drawing part of their identity from the issue rather than making careful and well thought out decisions. I doubt it would do any good.

 

[db1959]

I would say it is probably a feel of discomfort of having a loaded gun with no "safety" on there hip.

I am pretty new with carrying a gun. When I was buying my first gun a mechanical safety was a big decision for me. My S&W does not have a safety. When I started carrying I was a little apprehensive at first in fact I carried with an empty chamber for a while until I realized that nothing was going to happen unless I made it happen. Now Its just a normal thing to wear a loaded gun.

Just be smart.

That was me. The more comfortable I get with carrying the less I think I need an exterenal safety.

 

[Roadie]

"More than enough time" means that the safety is off by the time the gun levels out. The gun isn't fired until it is on target. That safety is off well before that.

Regarding mistakes during a drill, that's what we've been saying the whole time. It's about training. I'f you're making mistakes it isn't second nature yet. You train till the mistakes don't happen yet. You need to accept that fact that it is some people have training to the extent that they can deploy a safe weapon without error.

Agreed, to a point. There is no such thing as 100% certainty that you can "deploy a safe weapon without error". Errors can happen to the best of the best..

Since I am not the best of the best, I chose to take a little of that uncertainty out of the equation..

 

[Patrolman1981]

As a LEO I have been carring a Glock 22 for 5 years everyday. I have never had any issues with my sidearm "not having a external safety". I am not saying that a accident can't happen, however it would be very rare. I have ran, jumped, crawled through windows and in and out of wrecked vehicles, plus with all the gear we carry and in and out of the car all day my holster takes alot of hits and bumps stuff all the time. With a Glock or Glock type firearm I believe as long as the trigger guard is covered they are as safe as any other firearm.

 

[foszoe]

Agreed, to a point. There is no such thing as 100% certainty that you can "deploy a safe weapon without error". Errors can happen to the best of the best..

Since I am not the best of the best, I chose to take a little of that uncertainty out of the equation..

I guess the likelihood of me missing the safety switch on the draw is about as likely as a person drawing and pulling the trigger too early out of fear. Anything can go wrong at any time. To me its not less uncertainty it just changes what the uncertainty is. I have had the 92FS for 22 years and its like a comfortable pair of shoes. Its second nature to flip that switch on the draw.

Use what one is familiar with and practiced with that would really be my primary message Avoid believing that method is best for everybody would be my second.

 

[gunman41mag]

have you noticed that most of the time a kid shoots himself or some one else, it's always a gun without a safety, cough, glock, cough

 

[FutureButterBar]

I guess all those cops and military personal are dumb and unsafe. Quick someone alert the media!

Not like an external safety is foolproof anyway. They do fail from time to time. And when/if they fail id prefer to be in the mindset that the safety wasn't there, than expect its working and had an unplanned-discharge.

Plus, glocks FTW

not that much of the military carries glock. some do, so i'll let it slide, also because you wear a stenson.

 

[FutureButterBar]

lets cut the bullcrap here and actually look at things. when is the last time a well functioning firearm fired by itself? i can't remember. it is usually caused by stupidity. while my firearm is holstered, the holster protects the trigger from being hit. so what is the worry? are you so dumb that grab you firearm by the trigger when you pull it out? carry your firearm as you would like, but dont hate those of us who can functionally pull a firearm from its holster without shooting ourselves in the process. check your weapon saftey rules. and don't hate me cuz my saftey is my finger and my brain

 

[GoDawgs]

It's all a training issue, or more correctly, a lack thereof.

It's becoming apparent that the safety-haters don't feel comfortable with "having to remember to flick the safety off." They are also apparently convinced that the steps involved to fire a safety-equipped handgun are:
1) Draw
2) Bring pistol on target
3) Visually find safety
4) Bring other hand up to find safety
5) Disengage safety
6) re-acquire target visually
7) Fire

This shows an obvious lack of training, and/or a naive willingness to believe certain marketing slogans and strategies by a certain firm who wishes to sell handguns to agencies based on how little training is needed to operate them.

In that regard, they are correct. A safety-less handgun is a firearm that I would recommend to my grandmother. Someone who is NEVER going to train, and who has no interest in becoming proficient with the OPERATION of a handgun.

I see it as kind of analogous to a clutch on a car. They aren't difficult, were used without question by everyone for 80 years or so. But now, there are entire populations who have no idea how to shift a manual transmission, and since they have no training or experience, claim that they are cumbersome, slow to shift, and prone to human forgetfulness.

It does all come down to training. Someone who doesn't want to train or learn all phases of operation of their handgun shouldn't be expected to "remember" anything more than they have to, just as someone who doesn't want to spend time practicing or training driving should use an automatic transmission, because they will miss shifts, or shift at the wrong time, because they aren't used to it.

Great points. I feel like every time this comes up, the non-ext safety people explain that ext safeties are the incorrect choice, rather than a personal preference that i believe they are. Because neither method is the 100% right answer for everybody, both exist. yay capitalism

 

[redwingshooter]

My personal opinion is that external safeties are more of a hinderance than a resource. In a moment of great stress it will be very easy to forget to flip that external safety off and then the gun won't go bang when you want it to, which is doubly bad! As long as you keep your finger or any other object off the trigger you will never have an AD.

 

[db1959]

Would it be wrong or unsafe to have the external safety off on a DA/SA and the weapon is decocked? Take the Beretta 92 for example. It has an external safety and a very long trigger pull on the first shot when not cocked. That thing isnt going off unless the trigger is pulled.

 

[redwingshooter]

Would it be wrong or unsafe to have the external safety off on a DA/SA and the weapon is decocked? Take the Beretta 92 for example. It has an external safety and a very long trigger pull on the first shot when not cocked. That thing isnt going off unless the trigger is pulled.

I wouldn't think that would be usafe at all, that's the way you have to carry a Sig P serries (eg P226) as the vast majority of them are all DA/SA with the odd ball being DAO.