Florida stand your ground. Dont play stupid games

[churchmouse]

Well, well, well.....

Ali Salous, the owner of the Circle A convenience store, told us Drejka has caused problems at his store before.
"This guy -- he did this before," Salous said. "He always hangs out in the parking lot and if he sees someone parking, he just wants to start trouble with people."

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/n...rwater-parking-space-leads-to-fatal-shooting#

Maybe he finally got what he was looking for.

Puts a whole new spin on this yes.
I still have not read the article.What I am gathering bits and pieces from posts is someone parked in the handicapped slot and got called out on it...

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Having seen this elsewhere I will say that if you come at my wife like that yes I am instantly involved. That the man pulled his gun is another factor we all need to keep in our minds when this crap happens.

Can you clarify your statement a bit? What does involved mean? Are you going to rush and attack a man yelling at your wife or are you going to inject yourself into the confrontation?

 

[Route 45]

Puts a whole new spin on this yes.
I still have not read the article.What I am gathering bits and pieces from posts is someone parked in the handicapped slot and got called out on it...

Yup.

Girl parks in handicap spot. Apparently not handicapped.
Self-appointed Justice League Handicap Spot Monitor confronts Girl.
Someone goes inside convenience store to alert the clerk.
Boyfriend of Girl comes out and pushes Justice League member.
Justice League member falls to the ground and draws pistol, points it at Boyfriend.
Boyfriend stops attack and actually looks like he's about to back up. Justice League shoots anyway.
Boyfriend goes inside store and collapses.
Boyfriend later dies at hospital.
Prosecutor says it is self-defense. (Stand your ground law)
Clerk says that Justice League has harassed people in the lot before.
Argument ensues on INGO.

 

[churchmouse]

Can you clarify your statement a bit? What does involved mean? Are you going to rush and attack a man yelling at your wife or are you going to inject yourself into the confrontation?

Having done this in the past in a parking lot that some crazy nut bag was advancing on my spouse yes, I am in the mix. With a quickness. No one has the right to assail a woman in these instances and as we all saw the guy had a gun. Seems he was not afraid to use it. That he opened up the distance between them when he shoved the man allowed the gun to be drawn. I tend to stay on top or close.

Would you not step in to defend your spouse/GF....just a question and not knocking you in any way. Everyone responds as to their own ability's/beliefs.
And again I am drawing my conclusions on the video.

 

[churchmouse]

Yup.

Girl parks in handicap spot. Apparently not handicapped.
Self-appointed Justice League Handicap Spot Monitor confronts Girl.
Someone goes inside convenience store to alert the clerk.
Boyfriend of Girl comes out and pushes Justice League member.
Justice League member falls to the ground and draws pistol, points it at Boyfriend.
Boyfriend stops attack and actually looks like he's about to back up. Justice League shoots anyway.
Boyfriend goes inside store and collapses.
Boyfriend later dies at hospital.
Prosecutor says it is self-defense. (Stand your ground law)
Clerk says that Justice League has harassed people in the lot before.
Argument ensues on INGO.

That was my conclusion.
Until this actually happens to you it is hard to say what would be done, how you would respond.

 

[croy]

47 YEARS OLD IS NOT OLD!!!!!

Yes it is

All over a **** parking spot... really.... Granted they shouldn't have parked there if they were not handicapped. But its no reason to get into a fight over especially pulling a gun. Reminds me the shampoo aisle of Beech Grove Walmart

 

[churchmouse]

Yes it is

All over a **** parking spot... really.... Granted they shouldn't have parked there if they were not handicapped. But its no reason to get into a fight over especially pulling a gun. Reminds me the shampoo aisle of Beech Grove Walmart

As my spouse is impaired and has the card on the mirror allowing her to park in said spaces I have been known to walk along with the douche bag that took the last spot with no visible credentials and no visible issues. Walk with them checking them out until they ask what my problem is. Then I tell them. In a civil tone. I have been told to FO as they walk away mumbling. I just can't help myself.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Having done this in the past in a parking lot that some crazy nut bag was advancing on my spouse yes, I am in the mix. With a quickness. No one has the right to assail a woman in these instances and as we all saw the guy had a gun. Seems he was not afraid to use it. That he opened up the distance between them when he shoved the man allowed the gun to be drawn. I tend to stay on top or close.

Would you not step in to defend your spouse/GF....just a question and not knocking you in any way. Everyone responds as to their own ability's/beliefs.
And again I am drawing my conclusions on the video.

I think we might be in agreement here but might be dancing around our words.

Plainly if I walked out of a store and saw a man berating my gf. I would 100% place myself between he and her. I would be forceful and direct with my words that he will not conduct himself in such a manner then do what I can to remove my gf and I or de-escalate the situation. I would not immediately become physical with the man. If by instructing the man to calm his **** he decides to get physical with me. I will do literally every thing in my power to remove the threat.

 

[KellyinAvon]

First off: by looking at the video would any of us thought the shooter was 47? Dude looked like Abe Vigoda standing there.

Second: My parents have a handicapped hang tag. Mom tells Dad not to walk so fast when they are parked in a handicapped spot. Mom is 80, Dad is 85!!

Third: Don't park in a handicapped spot if you're not authorized to do so. Getting called out for doing so should be the rule, not the exception.

Forth: This ain't stand your ground, it's self-defense. Abe Vigoda dude couldn't retreat because he was violently pushed to the ground.

Fifth: Circle A owner should be sued for ripping off Circle K.

Sixth: Circle A owner (who should be sued by Circle K) should've trespassed Abe Vigoda dude if he was a problem.

 

[churchmouse]

I think we might be in agreement here but might be dancing around our words.

Plainly if I walked out of a store and saw a man berating my gf. I would 100% place myself between he and her. I would be forceful and direct with my words that he will not conduct himself in such a manner then do what I can to remove my gf and I or de-escalate the situation. I would not immediately become physical with the man. If by instructing the man to calm his **** he decides to get physical with me. I will do literally every thing in my power to remove the threat.

You dance much better than I do. Well said.
It really all depends on what the level of idiocy is. Hard to say from the Video. 1st I would never park in the slot without credentials so there is that.
2nd, one has to judge from the actions of the assailant how to take care. Walk up/rush up/etc.
3rd, once you escalate to laying on hands make it count.

There was a lot of fail here.

 

[croy]

As my spouse is impaired and has the card on the mirror allowing her to park in said spaces I have been known to walk along with the douche bag that took the last spot with no visible credentials and no visible issues. Walk with them checking them out until they ask what my problem is. Then I tell them. In a civil tone. I have been told to FO as they walk away mumbling. I just can't help myself.

I had a handicap sign in my truck for a month once. I was picking up someone who had it/loaned it to me since I was driving. If they were not in the car I did not use that tag one single time.

At work majority of the handicap spots are full. I know for fact 75% of the people using those spots. It's for their wives.

 

[churchmouse]

I had a handicap sign in my truck for a month once. I was picking up someone who had it/loaned it to me since I was driving. If they were not in the car I did not use that tag one single time.

At work majority of the handicap spots are full. I know for fact 75% of the people using those spots. It's for their wives.

It is kind of sad in a way.

 

[croy]

It is kind of sad in a way.

It really is. It's also sad how many people who have handicap spots because they're too lazy to exercise and are extremely over weight. That's not to say all overweight handicapped people are that way because not all of them are. Some have medical conditions that keep them from exercising or even a thyroid problem.

When I went down for my back I wasn't offered handicap parking but at the same time I didn't want it. It was better for me to stand up and walk than to sit down. I've been fortunate enough thus far that I have never needed handicap parking.

 

[churchmouse]

It really is. It's also sad how many people who have handicap spots because they're too lazy to exercise and are extremely over weight. That's not to say all overweight handicapped people are that way because not all of them are. Some have medical conditions that keep them from exercising or even a thyroid problem.

When I went down for my back I wasn't offered handicap parking but at the same time I didn't want it. It was better for me to stand up and walk than to sit down. I've been fortunate enough thus far that I have never needed handicap parking.

I love the ones that park at the curb near blocking the entrance/exit and stroll inside to do some shopping. I could go on and on I guess.

 

[Route 45]

That was my conclusion.
Until this actually happens to you it is hard to say what would be done, how you would respond.

Same use-of-force continuum that I used when I confronted idiots for a living. Just a few less tools.

The "don't draw it unless you are going to use it" line is BS. You only draw if you think you might need to use deadly force to defend yourself, but that doesn't mean you have to use deadly force.
From the body language of the aggressor (boyfriend) in this video, it looks like he changed his channel when confronted with a drawn pistol. I don't think the guy on the ground needed to shoot him. It's not self-defense if the aggressor halts the attack.

The fact that the shooter does this as a habit tells me that he was out looking to dispense justice.

 

[doddg]

I got mad when I watched the vid and I got mad when I read the comments.
Sounded like a bunch of lawyers; people who don't live in the real world and do not know how quickly things can turn bad.
He attacked the old man with terrific force with the old man being hurled to the ground, and even after the attack when the old man was on the ground the aggressor looked like he took 3 steps toward him, or you could say he was recapturing his balance after such a forceful attack.

If you want to speculate, I speculate that if the man hadn't pulled out a gun the attacker would have stood over him either kicking or swinging on him or acting like he was going to hit the old man to make the old man cower, perhaps putting on a show for his girlfriend that the aggressor was trying to "protect," or I would say: put on a show for her.

Now you are arguing that he had no right to shoot him after the attacker backed up when seeing the gun.

I have made up my mind I will not shoot unless I have been physically accosted, and perhaps even thrown to the ground, and when I pull out my gun you will be shot with several bullets instantly, saving some rounds incase the attacker has friends who would rush me, or even pull out their own guns to retaliate.

The question is the delay.
If I have to error, I am going to error on the side of the person on the ground.
I'm not going to give license for strapping young men to be throwing older men to the ground, then backing up and there is nothing you can do about it, except perhaps wait for another wave of attack.

You question the age of 47 being "not old." Better wait until you are older b/c some don't age well: he looked old just by the poor way he was standing.
When I was 47, the attacker would have been on the ground with his head smashing into the payment and he would not know how it happened so fast b/c with even a bare minimum of hand-to-hand training, defending from a shove is "101" defense. But, at 65, I am impaired like I thought I'd be at 85: the clock is ticking and one of the reasons I got back into CC.
I haven't had much handgun training, but hand-to-hand, like most men, I know the basics and have had my trainers on the floor when told to practice certain measures (quite fun really).
But, to judge this man buy "our" standards? Really?

Better not hope I'm on the jury if you get shot trying to get away from attacking someone.
I'm sure with just a little but of questioning I would never be allowed on a jury.
I have no mercy for those who attack people just b/c they can.

As you might surmise: I'm not a lawyer. (my daughter is, but with properties)

 

[churchmouse]

I got mad when I watched the vid and I got mad when I read the comments.
Sounded like a bunch of lawyers; people who don't live in the real world and do not know how quickly things can turn bad.
He attacked the old man with terrific force with the old man being hurled to the ground, and even after the attack when the old man was on the ground the aggressor looked like he took 3 steps toward him, or you could say he was recapturing his balance after such a forceful attack.

If you want to speculate, I speculate that if the man hadn't pulled out a gun the attacker would have stood over him either kicking or swinging on him or acting like he was going to hit the old man to make the old man cower, perhaps putting on a show for his girlfriend that the aggressor was trying to "protect," or I would say: put on a show for her.

Now you are arguing that he had no right to shoot him after the attacker backed up when seeing the gun.

I have made up my mind I will not shoot unless I have been physically accosted, and perhaps even thrown to the ground, and when I pull out my gun you will be shot with several bullets instantly, saving some rounds incase the attacker has friends who would rush me, or even pull out their own guns to retaliate.

The question is the delay.
If I have to error, I am going to error on the side of the person on the ground.
I'm not going to give license for strapping young men to be throwing older men to the ground, then backing up and there is nothing you can do about it, except perhaps wait for another wave of attack.

You question the age of 47 being "not old." Better wait until you are older b/c some don't age well: he looked old just by the poor way he was standing.
When I was 47, the attacker would have been on the ground with his head smashing into the payment and he would not know how it happened so fast b/c with even a bare minimum of hand-to-hand training, defending from a shove is "101" defense. But, at 65, I am impaired like I thought I'd be at 85: the clock is ticking and one of the reasons I got back into CC.
I haven't had much handgun training, but hand-to-hand, like most men, I know the basics and have had my trainers on the floor when told to practice certain measures (quite fun really).
But, to judge this man buy "our" standards? Really?

Better not hope I'm on the jury if you get shot trying to get away from attacking someone.
I'm sure with just a little but of questioning I would never be allowed on a jury.
I have no mercy for those who attack people just b/c they can.

As you might surmise: I'm not a lawyer. (my daughter is, but with properties)

47 aint old man. Dang it you guys are killing me here.....

 

[fullmetaljesus]

I think his point is that 47 for some people is like 85 for others.

My mom is an insanely healthy 61. My dad wasn't in that good of shape when he was 51.

Some age well some age like a tomato.

 

[Denny347]

Haha, 47 is NOT old and we are quite capable of defending ourselves (I'm 45). He had no situational awareness, allowing the boyfriend to walk up and "blindside" him. That lack of awareness led to deadly force, a poor decision in my humble opinion. He is fortunate the prosecutor is being generous and not putting this up for a criminal jury to decide. I have a feeling a civil jury will not be as kind.

 

[doddg]

47 aint old man. Dang it you guys are killing me here.....

1. Not for a normal working man, but for one that has bad health with illnesses or surgeries, his body could be older than his age.
2. Someone menitoned the ease of which he got up off the ground.
3. His adrenaline was pumping through his veins in a way it probably never had before.
4. If this goes to court I'd bet the lawyer for the "old" man would bring out a litany of Dr. visits, hospitalizations, rehabs.
5. This speculation works both ways here, and I have no sympathy for a perpetrator under the guise of "defending" his girlfriend: she was not under physical attack, the attacker was way out of line with the force used to come to her "rescue." It cost him his life.