Friday Night Steel for March 2013

[chizzle]

How about a more pistol oriented (wider slots) version of the VTAC barricade. You could set up strings like the current barricade where one string is shot from each port, or you could have different plates be engaged from different ports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbCMtTaPaU

If you wanted to sketch something up and help build it, I think that would be possible. Things I would keep in mind are:

1). Handicap accessibility
2). Acessibility for children, seniors, etc.
3). Angles of trajectory as compared to berm height (don't want to set up shots where misses could leave the range)
4). Time to "make ready". Don't want to set up a potential bottleneck that could take longer to get in position than it does to shoot.
5). Friday Night Steel has always been the entry level action shooting sport. We don't want to make it too tough for new folks to compete.
6). I want the finished product to look nice (painted, routered edges, etc.)
7). Don't want to create potentially unsafe actions. Need to include a place for people to set their bag, make ready, etc.

All in all, I think you have a good idea for us to try. I just wanted to lay some ground rules that may help you and others when evaluating potential designs.

 

[wolfy25]

How about something like this? (It would have a base similar to the current barricade)

A couple notes/questions.
1.)What are the shotgun shooters thoughts on the horizontal slot? PCR's and 22 rifles with optics will probably have to roll the rifle over, but I'm not sure how it will work with shotguns.
2.) The standing inside the legs of the barricade rule would probably need to be removed to prevent left vs right handing rifle shooters from having to switch shoulders on different slots.

 

[chizzle]

How about something like this? (It would have a base similar to the current barricade)

A couple notes/questions.
1.)What are the shotgun shooters thoughts on the horizontal slot? PCR's and 22 rifles with optics will probably have to roll the rifle over, but I'm not sure how it will work with shotguns.
2.) The standing inside the legs of the barricade rule would probably need to be removed to prevent left vs right handing rifle shooters from having to switch shoulders on different slots.

I'd like something more like the Vtac barricade, but with fewer / simpler holes in it and a shelf to set your gun / mags like on our existing barricade. That would give us more versatility for uses (standing, crouching, kneeling) and would be more forgiving for folks that just can't handle the ports (Juniors, elderly, etc.). I do agree that we may need to alter the rules about being outside the legs of the stand; I don't think that would be a big deal as long as we spell it out in the stage briefing.

 

[CB45]

I hate to say it, but the barricade and barrel are probably hard enough for entry level competition. Lots of new shooters struggle with it. Heck, so do I.

I would hate to see it turn into a "tactical" event... tactical car scenarios and all that jazz...

Part of the beauty of FNS is the simplicity. My two cents.

 

[Tanfodude]

^Yup. Hell, a lot of people struggle with the poppers. Bring the poppers back with different target shapes.

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Please don't add more bending over!! Have you seen me shoot through the barrel? It takes a couple guys under 40 to get me back to my feet. Actually some of these seem fun. Just give us a couple second handicap.

 

[singlesix]

FNS fills a niche and I hate to see this change. I would love to shoot USPSA, but my Sundays are taken up, given this my vote is to keep FNS' current format. I've met several people at MCFG that expressed an interest doing something beside punching holes in paper. When I tell them about FNS the first question is how hard is it.

I believe FNS' unofficial role as the "gateway" for new shooters into the action shooting sport is a worthy one.

 

[wolfy25]

My thought with the 3 levels was to prevent/limit the bending over. Ex. the stage would require shooting through the triangle, then the square, and finally one of the slots. (Top row for the taller shooters, middle row for average height, and bottom row for shorter height and juniors.)

 

[GNRPowdeR]

I agree that FNS plays a great part as the transition / intro into action shooting. Still, when the group pulls out the "new" stage of TWO TX stars and the plate rack as a single stage... I remember that being a challenge to several of us.

Designing a new barricade to use once or twice a year isn't a bad thing. True, the poppers are interesting, and the rack is always a pain, but it's still a good thing to have one challenge in each match to keep those of us that are regulars on our toes and to give newer shooters an idea of what they might find if they continue to attend / want to go beyond FNS.

 

[CB45]

My thought with the 3 levels was to prevent/limit the bending over. Ex. the stage would require shooting through the triangle, then the square, and finally one of the slots. (Top row for the taller shooters, middle row for average height, and bottom row for shorter height and juniors.)

I like the three ports idea. The wood will get shot up if the ports are small. People will damage guns by putting the muzzle into the holes if they are small.

Horizontal slot would definitely cause some issues if someone put their gun into the port.

 

[cakelly1962]

How about something like this? (It would have a base similar to the current barricade)

A couple notes/questions.
1.)What are the shotgun shooters thoughts on the horizontal slot? PCR's and 22 rifles with optics will probably have to roll the rifle over, but I'm not sure how it will work with shotguns.
2.) The standing inside the legs of the barricade rule would probably need to be removed to prevent left vs right handing rifle shooters from having to switch shoulders on different slots.

What about steel targets that match the ports. Shoot corresponding target thru corresponding port.

 

[rala]

Having volunteered as an RO for the last couple of years I'd like to make a couple of observations:

 

[rala]

Having volunteered as an RO for the last couple of years. I'd like to make a few points about the barricade suggestions.
1. about 30% of the people coming to FNS don't have the required skill level. They are challenged to finish a stage using conventional shooting positions. They don't know how to shoot from those positions or safely get up from the position.
2. At least one person per squad has a less than a 40% hit rate.
3. targets should be level with or below shooting position. Anything else and you have a real risk of rounds leaving the range.
4. The VTAC type barricade could only be shot in one of the bays with a defined firing line, safety buffer and waiting area.
5. Effects on overall match flow. this will be a slow stage.

All of that adds up to some serious safety issues for the match directors to consider.

Some of my suggestions to shake things up, not drive away the average joe, but maintain the safety record would be a weak hand only stage; a start with unloaded gun on the barrel; and more defined target sequences as opposed to "as visible"

 

[CB45]

Rala, I totally agree with your sentiments. I am very weary of the barricade ideas. Only way that I can see that it would be possible is with large ports.

Weak hand strings can and are done occasionally. They slow everything down and are harder for beginners. I generally don't like to do many. One every so often...

Unloaded starts are an AD waiting to happen. Under pressure novice shooters are apt to make mistakes.

Sequential arrays are hard to score penalties for. They require a scorekeeper to watch the targets to properly assign penalties.

Bottom line, FNS is an entry level event. It's a proven platform. Any proposed changes should be evaluated based on past experience and what works.

If you aren't challenged enough move on to IDPA, USPSA, or SCSA. Leave FNS fun and simple.

 

[gregkl]

Weak hand strings can and are done occasionally. They slow everything down and are harder for beginners.

Unloaded starts are an AD waiting to happen. Under pressure novice shooters are apt to make mistakes.

Bottom line, FNS is an entry level event. It's a proven platform. Any proposed changes should be evaluated based on past experience and what works.

If you aren't challenged enough move on to IDPA, USPSA, or SCSA. Leave FNS fun and simple.

All this talk is getting me more interested in checking it out. I have never shot anything more than a paper target and I am very nervous about trying out action shooting, especially with people watching! I don't even like sharing a bench with people at the range I shoot at.

 

[JollyMon]

I have been tempted to go out to FNS for over 6 months now. This would be my first competition type event. While I know it will be humbling (very), I feel competition shows where you need to focus training.

Currently the only thing holding me back from FNS, is the lack of magazines that I currently have (2 17rounders) for my full size handgun and the inability to find/buy them anywhere. Someday, when things calm back down, I will join in the fun.

 

[opus1776]

Currently the only thing holding me back from FNS, is the lack of magazines that I currently have (2 17rounders) for my full size handgun and the inability to find/buy them anywhere. Someday, when things calm back down, I will join in the fun.

JollyMon,

What handgun do you shoot? There are on average between 50 and 70 people at FNS. If you let the board know what type of handgun you have someone might be able to lend you a mag or two for the night.


======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[gregkl]

JollyMon,

What handgun do you shoot? There are on average between 50 and 70 people at FNS. If you let the board know what type of handgun you have someone might be able to lend you a mag or two for the night.




======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

This would be me too along with ammo. I just bought a M&P 9MM and I have mags on back order for 5-6 months supposedly and I look for ammo when I can. Not getting any time to shoot it at this point.

 

[JollyMon]

Same, M&P9.

 

[JJJ]

New challenges sound interesting, but it seems to me based on past scores that FNS must be slightly more challenging than Steel Challenge. My personal best hovers just above 100 sec for fifteen strings, and for SCSA it holds almost the same even with five more strings and shooting from the draw. I look at other shooters scores and it seems to be more or less the same story.