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Get home gun 9mm or 5.56?
- Thread starter venenoindy
- Start date
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“Rifles” come in many sizes. Pick what works for the situation.
I want to be like KJQ6945 when I grow up on
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I'm not sure sure that OurDee doesn't have the best plan, with a cane being his "rifle." Rock the gray hair and a cane. The cane is a very sweet close quarters weapon, when trained to use effectively.
Tactics will be as important as weapons if trying to escape social unrest. Lotta folks think they have a plan, but that plan will only work if things go perfectly to their thinking. Whats the likelihood of that?
Most folks want to operate under the impression that they will sneak through with no one will be watching them. I think you have to assume just the opposite.
Tactics will be as important as weapons if trying to escape social unrest. Lotta folks think they have a plan, but that plan will only work if things go perfectly to their thinking. Whats the likelihood of that?
Most folks want to operate under the impression that they will sneak through with no one will be watching them. I think you have to assume just the opposite.
This isn't binary, it's a continuum. What are you feeding it? Not trying to give you (or anyone) a hard time here. It just seems like many of the people adopting the pistol-length AR pistol platform in 5.56 these days haven’t taken the time to understand the ballistics. Maybe you have, and that’d be cool. I’d be interested in what you’re feeding it and how it performs in practice (or in standardized testing of a similar setup).
It’s very dependent on the particular load/bullet being used.
M193 and M855 loads out of an 11.5” barrel, for example have effective ranges (defined as the range where the velocity drops below fragmentation velocity of 2700 fps) of approx. 40-45m and 12-15m respectively [1]. I wonder how many people using an 11.5” barreled AR (or shorter pistol) and shooting M855ish ammo think of their gun as a 12-15 meter gun!
When one starts to get into the 8” or shorter barrel range, one may not have fragmentation velocity – at the muzzle. So, for the shorter barrels, one might want to look at expanding bullets in this caliber that are designed to expand at lower velocities. Examples here [2].
For a range toy, it doesn’t really matter. But for defensive purposes, I suspect a lot of folks haven’t considered what effect lopping off half the designed barrel length of the weapon system has on performance. Just want to encourage folks to think about it and seek out the data needed (or generate your own) to confirm that performance will meet whatever one’s intended use is.
[1] - https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_fragrange.html
[2] - https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/ar-15-pistol-ballistic-gel-testing
I consider my AR 11.5" a close quarters weapon with movie gun amounts of ammo. I prefer it to a shotgun for home defense. I use a .357 pistol to back up the AR. If I have to for some odd reason reach out and touch something, that is for the .308 . At a 100 yards I like the 30/30. 9mm has become my primary concealed pistol. It came down to comfort and my being willing to always have it on me. Now give me an un-tucked shirt and nothing beats 3 o'clock 1911ish OWB.
I've been looking into this over the past week and was pleased to discover this thread!
I'm still learning, so I don't have a lot to add, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned--and the reason I'm inclined towards a PCC--is my wife will be more comfortable shooting it than any rifle caliber pistol. For her, shooting is primarily a psychological hurdle and the size of the boom is what matters to her the most.
I'm still learning, so I don't have a lot to add, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned--and the reason I'm inclined towards a PCC--is my wife will be more comfortable shooting it than any rifle caliber pistol. For her, shooting is primarily a psychological hurdle and the size of the boom is what matters to her the most.
johntheplinker
Master
I'd go in a totally different direction. Triangle side folder AK, about as compact as AR pistol or SBR, can be fired folded, not as obnoxiously loud as a short barreled 223, better effective range than either a PCC or SBR AR. Loaded up with M67 or 8M3 bullets it will mess up a coronazombie. Optics mounting does leave something to be desired and the ammo is heavy.
That said, since I don't have a triangle side folder AK and I am not at all impressed by the performance of short barreled 5.56 pistols or SBRs, I'll stick to a 16" carbine AR with LPV optic. A couple inches of barrel length isn't going to make that much difference in concealability especially if that PCC/SBR/AR pistol is equipped with a suppresor but does in performance at range. I figure if I have to whip it out and use it, I've already been targeted and the noise difference between it and a PCC is a moot point. I want to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible.
That said, since I don't have a triangle side folder AK and I am not at all impressed by the performance of short barreled 5.56 pistols or SBRs, I'll stick to a 16" carbine AR with LPV optic. A couple inches of barrel length isn't going to make that much difference in concealability especially if that PCC/SBR/AR pistol is equipped with a suppresor but does in performance at range. I figure if I have to whip it out and use it, I've already been targeted and the noise difference between it and a PCC is a moot point. I want to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible.
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Both.
90% of the time, my get home gun is gonna have to be my daily carry. (Glock 45 with TLR7 and 2 spare mags) I don't make a habit of carrying a long gun in the vehicle on a daily basis, though that may have to change... I do, however, whenever I travel away from my home area. For the times I'm traveling, I also bring a 10.3" Daniel Defense pistol in 5.56, and a warbelt with a Glock 17, and TLR1 in a Dewalt tool bag... I do like an AR style of weapon. The handling characteristics of them are just so second nature to me after so many years, and there are just so many ways to configure them to your needs.
I prefer to keep the rifle caliber, rather than go with a 9mm version. I know a lot of people are saying how they can hit targets at 100 yds with theirs, but a handgun round is a compromise to begin with, and at 100 yds... no thanks. Just because you can hit the target, doesn't mean it will have the desired effect on said target. Now, the thing to remember about going with a 10.3" 5.56 is choosing the correct ammo. You don't want to go with something like 193, or 855 that is very dependent on MV. I use the 77gr OTM LR MOD 1 put out by IMI that is a very good MK 262 clone. It works very well out of a short barrel and will fragment down to 2,000 fps or less, making the little AR pistol a good defensive tool out to 150 yds or so easily. I also fitted it with the Law Tactical folder so that it travels well in a bag, backpack or whatever should I need to be discreet. Still need to get that suppressor though...
I do have the option of a .300 Blackout as well, and I'm somewhat stocked for it at home, but for on the go when you're unsure of how long it may take you to get home... I'll stick with the 5.56.
I prefer to keep the rifle caliber, rather than go with a 9mm version. I know a lot of people are saying how they can hit targets at 100 yds with theirs, but a handgun round is a compromise to begin with, and at 100 yds... no thanks. Just because you can hit the target, doesn't mean it will have the desired effect on said target. Now, the thing to remember about going with a 10.3" 5.56 is choosing the correct ammo. You don't want to go with something like 193, or 855 that is very dependent on MV. I use the 77gr OTM LR MOD 1 put out by IMI that is a very good MK 262 clone. It works very well out of a short barrel and will fragment down to 2,000 fps or less, making the little AR pistol a good defensive tool out to 150 yds or so easily. I also fitted it with the Law Tactical folder so that it travels well in a bag, backpack or whatever should I need to be discreet. Still need to get that suppressor though...
I do have the option of a .300 Blackout as well, and I'm somewhat stocked for it at home, but for on the go when you're unsure of how long it may take you to get home... I'll stick with the 5.56.
If it's a 40-45m gun, then a 20" rifle is a 120m gun.
Based on what I've seen with gel, a 10.5" is good to go with M193 out to 100m. Does it fragment as well as a 20" gun at 100m? Nope. Does it still create a rifle like wound channel rather than ice picking like 5.56 typically does when pushed beyond 300m? Yep.
I've been pondering the same thing, I am leaning towards a 9mm that accepts Glock mags simply because worst case I have 2 guns on me that take the same mags and ammo. Yes I realize 5 pmags with 5.56 don't take up much room however I feel like it would work better for me.
Just my 2 cents.
Why not one of these?
https://caagearup.com/product/mck-w-ballistic-sling-bag/
Works for Glock, Sig, S&W MP. Put your favorite AR style RDS on it and you're good to go.
https://caagearup.com/product/mck-w-ballistic-sling-bag/
Works for Glock, Sig, S&W MP. Put your favorite AR style RDS on it and you're good to go.
Have both 5.56 and 9mm AR in pistol configs. However I can't bring myself to have a thousand dollar plus rig in my vehicle. Keep a pump shotty or a cheap rimfire. Don't care if it gets ripped, used as a boat paddle or pitched in a ditch someplace. I like disposable equipment.
I have my Tavor SAR in one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Sling-Pa...ywords=UTG+Alpha+Battle&qid=1586140120&sr=8-1
I know its UTG but this bag is IMO pretty good. Can hold 2 rifles, plenty of zip pockets for mags, etc. Padded and heavy duty zippers. Doesn't scream tactical bag. YMMV.
Edit: 34" Metallic grey is on sale for $50.
I know its UTG but this bag is IMO pretty good. Can hold 2 rifles, plenty of zip pockets for mags, etc. Padded and heavy duty zippers. Doesn't scream tactical bag. YMMV.
Edit: 34" Metallic grey is on sale for $50.
My primary goal was a small case that my neighbors (or anyone else) would not recognize as a rifle case. I didn't care if it was UTG. I just know it looks more like a tennis-racket case than a gun case.
That said, I have had mine since 2017 and it has been used hard. It has held up very well. All zippers (heavy duty) are functioning correctly and the "Quick Pull Handles" work great to open it very quickly. The Velcro straps (inside) that hold the weapon in place are large and provide a nice firm grip. The 4.7 rating on Amazon is about right.
I use the front pockets as follows:
Top=various range tools, screw drivers, wrenches, etc.
Center=3x30round mags
Bottom=2x30round mags
Hope this helps.
Closer to 190-200m for the 20" rifle with M193. [1]
[1] - https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/term_fragrange.html
soupergenius
Plinker
.45 sub-compact with a .300 blackout pistol under the seat and a bag full of mags.
