HB1231 passes in house- (Centerfire rifles for deer hunting)

[oldpink]

I missed the meeting video as I thought it was 9 CST.

From what I am reading on my website from the folks that did watch it it came out this way..



No purple paint either...

Don't ask me why they cherry picked just those calibers???

If this is true, it seems that they've gotten some sense talked into them, and I seriously doubt that only the listed calibers would be allowed.
Far easier, far simpler, and far more sensible to make the caliber requirement exactly as was originally planned, i.e. any caliber currently allowed out of handguns would be allowed out of full rifles, meaning .243 caliber and up, as long as it meets the minimum case length requirement of 1.16".
If it finally passes that way, we would be right there with the vast majority of states that allow HPR, with only the very few states where they've taken the controversial step of allowing certain .224 caliber rifles, such as .220 Swift.

 

[avboiler11]

Kentucky allows 22 centerfires.

Based on personal experience, I can say without reservation they kill just as effectively and ethically as a 30-06.

That is neither here nor there, however, to the discussion of this proposal for Indiana.

 

[oldpink]

If lawmakers truly did limit allowable calibers to only 243 and a handful of 30s then yes, that will be a spectacular fail.

As I just posted, I'm almost certain that they'll knock that down.
I suspect that they only listed those as examples that would be allowed, not as the only allowed calibers.
After all, no thinking person could possibly believe that a 7mm Remington Magnum or .333 Winchester Magnum would be inadequate for deer, while .30-30 would be.

 

[Tynimiller]

As I just posted, I'm almost certain that they'll knock that down.
I suspect that they only listed those as examples that would be allowed, not as the only allowed calibers.
After all, no thinking person could possibly believe that a 7mm Remington Magnum or .333 Winchester Magnum would be inadequate for deer, while .30-30 would be.

The word "only" was used when describing the calibers from those that have been saying they watched it via the links...which would mean those only. Unless there is another sub committee meeting this is the final proposal...be curious once in writing for us all to see that is in fact the case.

 

[Tynimiller]

Kentucky allows 22 centerfires.

Based on personal experience, I can say without reservation they kill just as effectively and ethically as a 30-06.

That is neither here nor there, however, to the discussion of this proposal for Indiana.

What state were you in? Down south somewhere where the deer are 2 feet tall? lol

 

[avboiler11]

What state were you in?

I was in...Kentucky.

Deer aren't hard to kill, they don't wear kevlar or SAPI plates. Put a modern expanding bullet into the heart, lungs, or CNS and it'll drop just as well as any "big bore".

Mk262 works pretty well, too.

I mean, arrows have been killing game for eons...right?

 

[Willie]

OldPink,

I'm going by what he folks on my site observed watching the video. There was a fair number of them and a few of them were actually at he meeting when it happened. By all indications they cherry picked some calibers - Maybe because that is what they own.

As I understand it this is the final wording.

 

[oldpink]

I was in...Kentucky.

Deer aren't hard to kill, they don't wear kevlar or SAPI plates. Put a modern expanding bullet into the heart, lungs, or CNS and it'll drop just as well as any "big bore".

Mk262 works pretty well, too.

I mean, arrows have been killing game for eons...right?

Not saying that the likes of .22-250 or .220 Swift couldn't be effective against deer, but the varmint bullets typically designed to fragment upon impact for that application wouldn't be ideal by a stretch.
I'd definitely go for a controlled expansion bullet, namely the Barnes TTSX or the Nosler Partition.

 

[oldpink]

Hmmm...it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have a problem with the calibers as states, since I was always intended to use my one and only HPR, a tang safety Ruger M77 .30-06, the selfish thought process.
However, I have a real problem with excluding the likes of ..270 Winchester, .35 Remington, and .45-70, especially since the list includes .243 Winchester.
That's just plain weird.

 

[tyrajam]

Interesting, especially since the 30-30, 300, 30-06, and 308 CARTRIDGES all shoot the same CALIBER bullet...who is making these rules again?
As far as the 22cf for deer, it's pretty common and effective. I grew up in Oregon and shot a nice buck with a 223, a guy I know took a lot with his 22-250. Rancher I hunted with in North Dakota had a wall of big mule deer, and every one was taken with his old 222. Deer are really not hard to kill...

 

[avboiler11]

Yeah...

Imagine a world where 243 Winchester is allowed, but 6mm Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor is not.

Or where 300WM is allowed, but 7RM or 338WM is not.

Makes about as much sense as 300 AAC Blackout being allowed from a 10.5" pistol, but not from a 10.5" rifle.

 

[Expatriated]

Why didn't they just say, "You can use whatever you currently can use for coyotes." ?

For the life of me, I just can't understand why people in Indiana want to regulate calibers for deer only. I just don't get it. Why isn't every other game in Indiana subject to this same caliber debate? No one cares what you shoot a coyote or a squirrel with, why the obsession with what you shoot a deer with? Too small a caliber will be an unethical shot? Is that really what people are worried about? If anything, people will go larger than necessary, not smaller. Are legislators really worried that some guy is going to spend the money for a license, go freeze in a deer stand, only to have his deer always get away cause he's only shooting a .22? Is that really what we are worried about?

 

[Willie]

Maybe not done yet. If it fails one of the houses it is back to the drawing board..

I asked a senator if this was the final version and he said..

No, if one of the caucuses reject the language it goes back to conference committee for changes until both caucuses approve then it goes through rules committee before it can be called for concurrence on the floor. This may go on for a while but we are running out of time.

 

[Tynimiller]

I was in...Kentucky.

Deer aren't hard to kill, they don't wear kevlar or SAPI plates. Put a modern expanding bullet into the heart, lungs, or CNS and it'll drop just as well as any "big bore".

Mk262 works pretty well, too.

I mean, arrows have been killing game for eons...right?

I was more joking than anything. I know they're easy to kill...but to me a .223 or something similar isn't something I'd personally use. Kinda like not using a field tip when bow hunting...it will kill them if put in the lungs...but broadhead is much more ethical.

 

[Paul30]

If lawmakers truly did limit allowable calibers to only 243 and a handful of 30s then yes, that will be a spectacular fail.

I disagree, it is not what it should have been, but those are the most popular calibers and if they open it up to those, it will not be long that we use the fact that these are no different than any other rifle, and the others should be included as well. It will be a stepping stone, even if it takes longer to get where we need to be. Sure, I wish they would simply make a basic rule about power requirements that make it much easier to understand, but this would be a step in the right direction. It would be a short time and the rest would be included.

 

[cedarthicket]

Indiana deer hunters have seen "stepping stones" used by IDNR quite a few times to get us where we are today. So, another stepping stone is not surprising to me. Anyone care to list the stepping stones on the use of centerfire handguns and then stepping stones for centerfire rifles?

 

[bart1533]

I disagree, it is not what it should have been, but those are the most popular calibers and if they open it up to those, it will not be long that we use the fact that these are no different than any other rifle, and the others should be included as well. It will be a stepping stone, even if it takes longer to get where we need to be. Sure, I wish they would simply make a basic rule about power requirements that make it much easier to understand, but this would be a step in the right direction. It would be a short time and the rest would be included.

Exactly. Stepping stones. The way it's is wrote one is a start. And we all know u got to start some where..

 

[avboiler11]

I have no issue with "stepping stones".

The issue is one of logic.

Allowing 243 Winchester but not 6mm Remington or 6mm Creedmoor isn't logical.

Allowing 30-30 but not 300 Savage isn't logical.

Allowing 300 AAC Blackout but not 300 Whisper isn't logical.

Allowing 300 Win Mag but not a 7mm Rem Mag or 338 Win Mag isn't logical.

A step in the right direction? Yes, absolutely...but a beyond needless overcomplication when a simple "6mm minimum bullet diameter" serve the same frickin' purpose.

Then again, we are talking about politicians.

 

[Tynimiller]

I have no issue with "stepping stones".

The issue is one of logic.

Allowing 243 Winchester but not 6mm Remington or 6mm Creedmoor isn't logical.

Allowing 30-30 but not 300 Savage isn't logical.

Allowing 300 AAC Blackout but not 300 Whisper isn't logical.

Allowing 300 Win Mag but not a 7mm Rem Mag or 338 Win Mag isn't logical.

A step in the right direction? Yes, absolutely...but a beyond needless overcomplication when a simple "6mm minimum bullet diameter" serve the same frickin' purpose.

Then again, we are talking about politicians.

One could say applying logic would be to make all HPRs illegal whether through pistol or long guns because it isn't logical to allow one and not the other...if I was a fan of HPRs being used, I'd be very happy this looks like it is going to happen...but I would not be happy with the fact it is legislatures doing it not the proper forum for fish and game laws.

 

[Willie]

The fat lady has not tuned up yet. This could very well go down in flames in either the house or the senate..

The Farm Bureau is not too happy that the purple paint on boundaries trees got dropped..