Homeless man shot to death by police while “illegally camping” in NM foothills

[Kirk Freeman]

Was this handled properly, Kirk?

Your fact pattern is misconstrued but yes it was handled properly.

Don't brandish deadly weapons at your fellow human beings because they have the right to self-defense.

Boyd wanted to fight, he choose unwisely.

 

[Denny347]

I thought the significance of those 21 foot drills is to practice being able to pull your weapon in time for the attacker to close the distance? If you already have a firearm pulled and aimed, how are those drills relevant?

Nonono. Your pistol should already been pulled for that drill. If not, you will get cut/stabbed before you get a chance.

 

[mrjarrell]

More Americans have been killed by cops in the last 10 years than the number of soldiers that were killed in Iraq. You are 8x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist. Just remember that, at the end of the day, your only job is to get home to your family.

 

[TMU317]

I am no lawyer or LEO and fully understand cases like this are complicated. My question would be with all the "non-lethal" devices being used, why was there a need to simultaneously fire 6 rounds into this man. In a slow motion shot I saw you could see him being hit by the blast of the taser, before he had time to start falling he had been shot 6 times with lethal ammo according to what I read. What is the point of having the tasers and the bean bag rounds if the intention of at least 2 of these officers is to use lethal force? I just cannot see a justification here.

The officers on scene were not all making the same decisions at the exact same time based on the exact same point of view. I would bet they were all perceiving the situation differently from their own point of view. The man threatened to kill the police, and then pulled a knife as they approached him. I am not sure what justification you require beyond that.

 

[Denny347]

The "less lethal" devices you all talk about aren't as reliable as you think at stopping people.

Especially the homeless. They wear so many layers that Tasers are worthless.

 

[TMU317]

More Americans have been killed by cops in the last 10 years than the number of soldiers that were killed in Iraq. You are 8x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist. Just remember that, at the end of the day, your only job is to get home to your family.

And you are a lot less likely to be killed by anyone if you manage to go through life without threatening to kill people and then pull a knife on them.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Boyd thinks better of fighting back

Thank you for the admission that Boyd wanted to fight.

BTW, the notion that Boyd was complying with the police is simply inane. Boyd died with a knife in each hand. He never dropped the deadly weapons that he assaulted the officers with.

Boyd wanted a fight and he found one. Boyd had no right to use force, the officers had every right.

 

[steveh_131]

Don't brandish deadly weapons at your fellow human beings because they have the right to self-defense.

Your standard doesn't work.

The cops brandished first. In fact, the cops attacked before he even tried to brandish anything.

 

[evsnova74]

Nonono. Your pistol should already been pulled for that drill. If not, you will get cut/stabbed before you get a chance.

Ok wow, I had no idea. Makes those Chinese knife attacks even scarier.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

And you are a lot less likely to be killed by anyone if you manage to go through life without threatening to kill people and then pull a knife on them.

What about Boyd's Constitutional right to harm others? I am sure that is in the INGO Constitution, maybe the penumbra?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Your standard doesn't work.

The cops brandished first. In fact, the cops attacked before he even tried to brandish anything

The cops have the authority to do so.

Boyd has no right to act in self-defense. When Boyd assaulted the officers, he forfeited his right to life.

 

[glockednlocked]

I will differ judgement as we only have a small portion of all information but my gut is this guy needed killing. That is always a very hard statement to make but he chose to pose a deadly threat and thus is responsible for his own death. My real beef with this and many stories is the stupid "killed for illegal camping" The spin of "killed for" whatever minor infraction is BS. Most officer contact occurs post minor offense. That does not negate subsequent violent escalation by the previously "jaywalking choirboy" who gets shot when he tries to kill the officer.

 

[steveh_131]

The cops have the authority to do so.

Boyd has no right to act in self-defense. When Boyd assaulted the officers, he forfeited his right to life.

Pulling out a knife, from 15 feet away, to defend yourself is assault?

Let's fix your standard. "you have no right to defend yourself from cops". Sums it up much better.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Pulling out a knife, from 15 feet away, to defend yourself is assault?

Once again, Boyd has no right to self-defense as he is a trespasser. I'll say it again since you have the Black Flag music up too loud, Boyd has no right to defend himself.

Boyd's brandishing the deadly weapons is Aggravated Assault in New Mexico. This triggers the permissible use of deadly force.

Let's fix your standard. "you have no right to defend yourself from cops". Sums it up much better.

In order to claim the defense of self-defense one must be in place where one has a right to be.

 

[churchmouse]

I thought the significance of those 21 foot drills is to practice being able to pull your weapon in time for the attacker to close the distance? If you already have a firearm pulled and aimed, how are those drills relevant?

My post was in regards to an 8 ft. distance.

 

[Destro]

The "less lethal" devices you all talk about aren't as reliable as you think at stopping people.

Also, not every department even has them. MANY departments do not use tasers

 

[Destro]

More Americans have been killed by cops in the last 10 years than the number of soldiers that were killed in Iraq.

how is that even relevant?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Here, I'll rewrite it another way:

Police in Albuquerque, NM received a report of a violent felon who had set up an illegal campsite outside of the city. They responded to the scene (as they often do when their assistance is requested) and attempted to negotiate with the man for over three hours. During negotiations the violent felon made repeated threats toward the officers and displayed knives. Officers were aware of the mans propensity for violence and attempted to calm the man with techniques learned through training they had received in dealing with the mentally disturbed. Unfortunately the man refused to cooperate and when officers felt all possible techniques had been exhausted they were forced to move in on the suspect. A flash bang diversionary device was utilized in hopes of disorienting the man and a police K9 was sent in but the man was undeterred and pulled two knives on the officers. The K9 officer moved in to gain control over his dog and when the other officers felt he was being threatened they were forced to shoot the man. Police would like to remind citizens that simple cooperation from this violent man would have prevented him from being injured.

Okay, maybe I missed something, but since when is turning your back on someone a threatening move? Unless you're a martial artist preparing to deliver a roundhouse kick I suppose... And then, apparently incapacitated, laying face down on the ground saying "please don't hurt me", he was shot 3 more times... in the back? Now we don't have the video of what transpired leading up to this, but the last few minutes don't look good.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Well, I watched the video and I'm sickened.

I've been sitting here thinking back on my LEO career and I came up with maybe a half-dozen situations where I could have used deadly force and gotten away with it.

But I didn't do it. It wasn't my job to GET AWAY with killing people. My job was to kill people only if it was absolutely necessary.

Our downtown area was lousy with unmedicated paranoid schizophrenics that our courts in their wisdom turned out of mental hospitals. Confrontations with them were frequent. Most of us were pretty good at handling them. We UNDERSTOOD that we were dealing with people whose connection with reality was tenuous. Sometimes it required force. I had to pound a guy one day who was chasing a city bus up a downtown street biting its tires because he thought he was a werewolf.

There were many times when I could have manipulated mentally challenged individuals into doing things that would have given me the justification to kill them. I didn't do that. None of us did. Our job was to DE-ESCALATE situations like this, not provoke the people we were trying to talk down.

Why on EARTH any law enforcement professional would throw a f***king flashbang at a known mental AFTER he had been talked down I can't imagine. That tactic GUARANTEED a defensive response from the suspect, which ANY experienced and properly trained LEO KNOWS!!!!!

So the guy pulled a knife. OF COURSE HE PULLED A F***KING KNIFE!! That's what paranoid schizophrenics DO!!!! The goal is to talk to them so that they DON'T do something like that, not guarantee that the poor sick bastard WILL do it!!!

So now they'll get away with a claim of self-defense. The reality is that the poor SOB was set up murdered by a gang of god-damned cowardly bullies hiding behind badges. If there had been any REAL cops on the scene it would have ended very differently.

God-damn it to hell, this makes me SICK!!!!

 

[KLB]

Thank you for the admission that Boyd wanted to fight.

BTW, the notion that Boyd was complying with the police is simply inane. Boyd died with a knife in each hand. He never dropped the deadly weapons that he assaulted the officers with.

Boyd wanted a fight and he found one. Boyd had no right to use force, the officers had every right.

Did you watch the video? He had picked up his stuff and was walking towards the officers peacefully when the flashbang was thrown and the dog attacked. Then he drew the knives and was shot.