How much difference is there between shooters in different classes? (USPSA)

[rhino]

Forget about classification and just go have FUN and be Safe. When I decided to go for GM, I attacked each classifier like a life and death situation. A quick draw and fast reloads on most classifiers at 7-10 yd. will get you a pretty good score. Throw down a few 100% scores and there is your GM card. Then if you go to a State , Area or National match you will find out your classification is a little bogus and you will have to learn the whole game if you want to be REALLY competitive in USPSA. I started USPSA in 1990 and there has been a big change in the past 15 years with the different type classifiers now in use. A lot of the original 99 series classifiers have been deleted that guys made GM on.

Heh! I think most of the good classifier scores (over 60%) I shot years ago were on classifiers that are no longer in use.

I'm newbie compared to you, Max! I didn't start until 1994 and I had some big gaps between then and 2002 when I was unable to shoot.

Like mentioned above, 15-30 minutes of The Correct Dry fire 4-5 times a week will work wonders.

Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.




"I never get any better, but sometimes I suck a little less."

 

[CB45]

Sidebar....

Someone who has earned a high classification doesn't necessarily mean they have class.

Stay classy my friends...

 

[bwframe]

Sidebar....

Someone who has earned a high classification doesn't necessarily mean they have class.

Stay classy my friends...

Quoted for truth!

 

[Craigh]

Like mentioned above, 15-30 minutes of The Correct Dry fire 4-5 times a week will work wonders.

Mongo/Coach/All,

Would you mind sharing your dry fire regiments?

Thanks,

Craig

 

[Coach]

Mongo/Coach/All,

Would you mind sharing your dry fire regiments?

Thanks,



Craig

I would say this topic deserves its own thread.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

RVB mentioned early on in the thread that most Masters can shoot GM type game, just inconsistently. Id give that opinion a lot of weight. I think you will find that the consistency is a significant part of moving up in classification, at every level. If you are a C class shooter and notice you have 1 stage at every match that you bomb, then you are truly an inconsistent B class shooter. Improve your consistency and you will move up quickly. Also, bear in mind that some money (match fees) and time will be nessecary. Unless you go to matches where they actually send in the classifier score, or major matches, or classifier matches, your classification won't develop at all. I also had great luck with dry fire a few years back, and IMO, it wasn't nessecarily which drills you did, or for how long you did them, but the fact of having the gun in your hand at least a little bit, every single day. It breeds a natural fit and feel and IMO that was the most helpful part.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

also, just as a personal note, make sure not to focus on this classification idea too much, or give it more value than its worth. Occasionally you see a guy make Master, then start thinking he is king of the world, and then see him get owned by a B class guy who put it all together on match day.

 

[BillD]

As Coach says, "You can make GM and never leave a 3'X3' box."
However, I still marvel at the speed and precision of those who post GM classifiers.

 

[rvb]

RVB mentioned early on in the thread that most Masters can shoot GM type game, just inconsistently. Id give that opinion a lot of weight. I think you will find that the consistency is a significant part of moving up in classification, at every level. .

Just to be clear, I was talking about earning the GM classification, not necessarily shooting a "GM type game." Eg hitting that draw time or reload time. Because you can't score over 100%, but you can score down to 80%, it requires a great deal of consistency to get 6 classifiers nearly in a row to average over 95%. At the lower classes, you might shoot classifiers that score over a larger window and get a couple really good ones (maybe even above the next class) that pull your average up. IMO, it requires less consistency to move up C->M.

I dont hang w GMs in a match, and that's not just a matter of consistency. That's putting the whole game together in addition to the fact that many GMs can shoot better than the HHFs.

now you are spot on that consistency is critical in a match. Few stages "make" your match, but it's easy to tank a stage and "break" your match. Consistency is a good way to move up in the results without shooting better or moving faster.

-rvb

 

[romack991]

Just to be clear, I was talking about earning the GM classification, not necessarily shooting a "GM type game." Eg hitting that draw time or reload time. Because you can't score over 100%, but you can score down to 80%, it requires a great deal of consistency to get 6 classifiers nearly in a row to average over 95%. At the lower classes, you might shoot classifiers that score over a larger window and get a couple really good ones (maybe even above the next class) that pull your average up. IMO, it requires less consistency to move up C->M.

The limits are 15% above and only 5% below your current classification. So GMs only score down to 90%.

 

[Rob377]

The limits are 15% above and only 5% below your current classification. So GMs only score down to 90%.

GMs don't have to make GM, because they already have.

 

[rvb]

I've busted the upper limit several times. I don't think HQ throws really good ones out unless the whole match trended way above (eg a possible setup issue).

I'm talking about a M going for GM. They can score down to 80%, but only scores in the 95-100 window are going to help.

-rvb

 

[romack991]

GMs don't have to make GM, because they already have.

That makes sense, M class scores down to 80%.

 

[birdo]

Just a related thought: I would suggest moving up by competing in regional matches, as opposed to shooting classifiers to advance. It's much more fun, you get a much better picture of where you truly fit in the larger community, and you can win something along the way (you have a good chance of taking top C/D class shooter at a regional).

 

[romack991]

Just a related thought: I would suggest moving up by competing in regional matches, as opposed to shooting classifiers to advance. It's much more fun, you get a much better picture of where you truly fit in the larger community, and you can win something along the way (you have a good chance of taking top C/D class shooter at a regional).

That doesn't always work if the match doesn't turn them in for classification. I shot SS at Area 5, IN State Match, and IN SS/Prod/Revo and none of those counted. Only SS Nats and Battle in the Bluegrass were submitted for classification.

 

[rvb]

That doesn't always work if the match doesn't turn them in for classification. I shot SS at Area 5, IN State Match, and IN SS/Prod/Revo and none of those counted. Only SS Nats and Battle in the Bluegrass were submitted for classification.

The In section was submitted.
-rvb

 

[birdo]

That doesn't always work if the match doesn't turn them in for classification. I shot SS at Area 5, IN State Match, and IN SS/Prod/Revo and none of those counted. Only SS Nats and Battle in the Bluegrass were submitted for classification.

Good point, I guess I used to look for matches that were part of the old contingency programs from people like STI, at least there you have the possibility of winning something useful along the way.

 

[romack991]

The In section was submitted.
-rvb

Not for SS. I'm not sure what decides if a section or area match gets submitted. I thought you needed 5 GMs in a division for it to count but Bluegrass only had 3 and it counted. Maybe Jake or Coach will chime in. I tried to find it in the rule book but this is the only thing I found:

Your performance in larger matches and tournaments may also be used to help
establish classification. Placement in a major event with a score above your
assigned class percentage may result in your being promoted to a higher class,
even if your current average is lower. Winning first or second in class at an Area
Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class
may result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an
Area Championship may promote you to Grand Master class. In addition, if you
score 95% or higher at a USPSA national championship, you will be immediately
moved to Grand Master class for that division.

 

[Rob377]

Not for SS. I'm not sure what decides if a section or area match gets submitted. I thought you needed 5 GMs in a division for it to count but Bluegrass only had 3 and it counted. Maybe Jake or Coach will chime in. I tried to find it in the rule book but this is the only thing I found:

Your performance in larger matches and tournaments may also be used to help
establish classification. Placement in a major event with a score above your
assigned class percentage may result in your being promoted to a higher class,
even if your current average is lower. Winning first or second in class at an Area
Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class
may result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an
Area Championship may promote you to Grand Master class. In addition, if you
score 95% or higher at a USPSA national championship, you will be immediately
moved to Grand Master class for that division.

The unwritten rule is 3 GMs, as I understand it.

 

[BillD]

Theres allkinds of folks who make m/gm. How much time/$ are you willing to invest? That affects how fast you'll get there.
-rvb

And, how well you can see and if you were born with a quick reaction time.

Vogel told me that he believes the majority of people really working at it and still in the B and below classes, just don't focus as quickly as the upper classes. I've not found Bob to be wrong about anything else shooting wise...