How much difference is there between shooters in different classes? (USPSA)

[Rob377]

And, how well you can see and if you were born with a quick reaction time.

Vogel told me that he believes the majority of people really working at it and still in the B and below classes, just don't focus as quickly as the upper classes. I've not found Bob to be wrong about anything else shooting wise...

So, when are picking one of these up?

 

[Twangbanger]

That doesn't always work if the match doesn't turn them in for classification. I shot SS at Area 5, IN State Match, and IN SS/Prod/Revo and none of those counted. Only SS Nats and Battle in the Bluegrass were submitted for classification.

Could anyone please expand on this, for those of us who are new? It sounds like there is a participation size cutoff, below which classifier scores doesn't get submitted (or maybe I'm reading that wrong). That doesn't make sense to me, because I thought the idea was the setups were standardized, and therefore Hit Factors could be compared apples-to-apples against a database of a bazillion of them shot elsewhere. Is the actual comparison done based on match %, not hit factor? That would seem to really skew things, based on who showed up.

I'm interested in understanding the math angle of these things. I'm getting into USPSA to round out my abilities and don't see myself ever traveling to these faraway matches (I shoot nationals in two other sports, not getting a kitchen pass for a third), so, as someone who's mostly only going to shoot local matches with 20~40 people total for all divisions, is it true the classifier stages of these matches will basically never count for anything? That would be good to know going forward, because it may help decide whether I bother to establish a class in a second gun, or just continue working the one I'm on (sometimes due to component shortages, I'd like to have the option to shoot something different based on what I have "loaded up.")

I know the experienced shooters are all saying, "don't care about classification, and go to larger matches," etc. I don't care about it much, but I'm pretty much flat-out sure I cannot travel to matches more than a couple hours out and am wondering if it's valuable for me to establish classification in a second gun, if I'm never going to a bigger match and the scores will never get sent anyway?

Thanks for being patient guys. This is all very new to some of us. It doesn't mean we're over-valuing the class thing, it's just we don't know and there's nowhere to ask.

 

[rvb]

A classifier stage will always count (so long as the club submits and pays for it) regardless of the size of the match.
Your finish at a major match, as a percentage of the top score, will only count if there are enough GMs in your division and the MD pays to have it count.
the rest of the math is in the rule book.
-rvb

 

[Twangbanger]

A classifier stage will always count (so long as the club submits and pays for it) regardless of the size of the match...

-rvb

Appreciate the response. I gathered from the rules that like most shooting sports, "hot" scores at a big match have a potential for moving you up, outside of the usual classification % table. But I was wondering about the "...as long as the club submits it..." aspect. So from what you're saying, it sounds like it's just a club follow-through issue, not anything to do with the rules. My classifier scores at a small weekend shoot will "count," even if there's only 5 other shooters and 1 in my division - I just need to shoot them at a well-organized club that sends in shoot reports like they're supposed to. (And if I got a wild hair and shot something like Revolver, it wouldn't be a pointless exercise...even if you're the only shooter, you can still establish class against a larger talent pool).

Thanks Ryan.

 

[rvb]

Most clubs are real good about getting the reports and $ in on time. It's not usually an issue. But there is a human element there. Sometimes a classifier will get "tossed" (eg not scored right or set up right) and the report won't get submitted as a classifier. In that case it's still a match stage. If a club is still paying by check, it may cause a month delay in the posting, depending on the timing.

yes, even if you are the only shooter in a division (or even the match!), your classifier score should get submitted.

-rvb

 

[Coach]

Not for SS. I'm not sure what decides if a section or area match gets submitted. I thought you needed 5 GMs in a division for it to count but Bluegrass only had 3 and it counted. Maybe Jake or Coach will chime in. I tried to find it in the rule book but this is the only thing I found:

Your performance in larger matches and tournaments may also be used to help
establish classification. Placement in a major event with a score above your
assigned class percentage may result in your being promoted to a higher class,
even if your current average is lower. Winning first or second in class at an Area
Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class
may result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an
Area Championship may promote you to Grand Master class. In addition, if you
score 95% or higher at a USPSA national championship, you will be immediately
moved to Grand Master class for that division.

3 GM's in a division for it to count, and it has to be paid for and submitted by the match. In the rule quoted above "may" is the key word. It is not automatic. If you win your Class at a major and your percentage meets the next higher class they may move you up. If you wanted to move up and met the previous criteria they would likely do it but it would not happen automatically. I think Mike Thompson went to B class because of his performance at Area 5 one year. I know of a C Class shooter that was bumped directly to A class but he had won C class all over the nation in the same year and they caught on to his sand bagging ways.

 

[Bosshoss]

3 shooters in the hardest division don't count.

FIFY

 

[cedartop]

Stumbled across this thread searching for something on the big web, and read through it a few times. As a relative newbie to competing I found it quite interesting.

 

[cedartop]

So I know everyone is different, but humor me. How old do you think is too old to make it to Master?

 

[SSGSAD]

I have never shot, IDPA, or USPSA, so I would like to know, if anyone out there, would tell us all,

Your age, how many years you have been competeing, what cal., and kind of gun you use .....

Ex.,

SSGSAD, 61 years old, my knee hurts, my back hurts,

I have never shot compettion, and I use a S&W Model 59, 9mm .....

 

[VERT]

So I know everyone is different, but humor me. How old do you think is too old to make it to Master?

You are to old to begin the Training

 

[Rob377]

You are to old to begin the Training

 

[VERT]

Star Wars Rep in bound. Yoda rocks. Reminds me of my GrandMaster

 

[cedartop]

You are to old to begin the Training

You are probably right about that. At this point I just have my eye on A.

 

[VERT]

You are probably right about that. At this point I just have my eye on A.

A?? I'm happy just to shoot a match without my wife getting ticked that I am not home.

 

[Grelber]

A?? I'm happy just to shoot a match without my wife getting ticked that I am not home.

Anytime I can run a stage and not pass gas (or worse) from the effort , I'm calling that a win.

 

[rhino]

Given the nature of the majority of classifiers and how the system works, I think that most people could earn an M card if they are willing to spend the hours doing productive dry practice and enough shooting practice to gain the necessary confidence to consistently apply the skills. However, that doesn't necessarily translate to the same level of success at shooting matches, which encompass a wider variety of skills and require additional physical attributes.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the older I get, the less likely I am to have the desire to practice like that. For me, until I get to where I can't see well enough to shoot, that's the primary effect of aging on whether or not I'm ever getting out of C-class. I don't practice for shooting matches. Shooting in matches is my practice.

 

[Tanfodude]

Yoda should have said "Mmm....Too old, he is."

 

[Rob377]

Given the nature of the majority of classifiers and how the system works, I think that most people could earn an M card if they are willing to spend the hours doing productive dry practice and enough shooting practice to gain the necessary confidence to consistently apply the skills. However, that doesn't necessarily translate to the same level of success at shooting matches, which encompass a wider variety of skills and require additional physical attributes.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the older I get, the less likely I am to have the desire to practice like that. For me, until I get to where I can't see well enough to shoot, that's the primary effect of aging on whether or not I'm ever getting out of C-class. I don't practice for shooting matches. Shooting in matches is my practice.

i think the first paragraph is a fairly accurate assessment. The nature of the classification is such that almost any reasonably able
bodied person can get an M card IF they put in the work on a few basic skills, many of which can be done dry. Assuming average corrected vision, a 60 or even 70 year old could do it. But it most adults have other responsibilities and/or interests in life that take precedence over putting in 5-10 hours a weeks in dry fire to get a consistent sub second draw and sub 1.1-1.2 reload. Add enough live practice to get to roughly .2 (consistent) splits for 2A at <10yds. Do those 3 things, maybe 4 if you include less quantifiable “transitions that don’t suck,” and an M card will come.

 

[sporter]

So I know everyone is different, but humor me. How old do you think is too old to make it to Master?

Just tell yourself you can do it.