I need expert help!

[Hookeye]

Saved a gloss 3-9X (NIB) for a possible Ruger #1B .25-06 purchase but am done w hassle.
Let a bud have the scope. Figure I'll have a #1 built. Ruger and Leupold aint exactly on my list of faves no mo.

 

[Hookeye]

When my brand new VariX 4-12X would not adjust correctly (ran out of windage adj) I verified the rifle/mounting as good by swapping in a known good scope. It zeroed just fine.
Replacing it w the Leupold, the problem persisted.

I have seen many mis-used, mis-machined and mis-assembled scope systems.
Usually it is the operator that mucks it up.

But sometimes it is the scope or rings or base.

Nice to have a cheap but properly working scope around for verifying if another scope is the problem.

 

[patience0830]

No, it won`t be the same thing at all. I`m 64 years old. I`ve sighted in and zeroed MANY rifle/scope combinations, and NEVER had this ongoing problem. I have plenty of heart, but hey, thanks for your condescending and insulting reply. Perhaps you didn`t mean to be so rude, but honestly, I suspect you meant to be exactly that.

I think he might have been trying to be funny. Wish you'd thought so..

 

[Hookeye]

Saying one doesnt want a Remington is fine.

Want a different trigger design that offers more safety? Cool.

Blaming a company because the users were dumbarses? Not cool.

The CNBC show was a bunch of crap, wouldn't even call it bad journalism.
Was rather obvious in its error and spin.....so much as to be insulting.

 

[hunt4fun]

I`d be open to a Savage 110. I was kinda dreaming of a Winchester Model 70. What does a new Savage 110 go for?

Savage AXIS XP Combo .30-06 Bolt-Action Rifle w/ 3-9x40mm Weaver Scope 57264

Savage AXIS XP Combo .30-06 Bolt-Action Rifle w/ 3-9x40mm Weaver Scope 57264

www.rkguns.com

 

[nipprdog]

Savage AXIS XP Combo .30-06 Bolt-Action Rifle w/ 3-9x40mm Weaver Scope 57264

Savage AXIS XP Combo .30-06 Bolt-Action Rifle w/ 3-9x40mm Weaver Scope 57264

www.rkguns.com

the axis line isn't the same as the 110

https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&so=az&pp=24&a=Centerfire

 

[led4thehed2]

In my limited rifle-shooting experience I have found that some sights just do not work for me, and betray the gun's true accuracy. IE, the MBUS set on my M&P15. Horrid, could not dial them in. Red dot solved that. So I'd give credence to the idea that the scope has issues.

Shooting a M1903 showed me that some guns just love certain loads. I tested groups using IMR 4064 and 4895. About the two most popular powders for old CMP guns. It's very accurate with 4064, and totally unpredictable with 4895.

These guns are not very similar to what you are shooting, wish I had a more apples to apples comparison, but you might have a less than perfect optic exacerbated by a load preference issue. I wish I had a great answer or something new to add to this conversation, but that's all I got. Sounds incredibly frustrating, good luck!

 

[TJ Kackowski]

I think he might have been trying to be funny. Wish you'd thought so..

Not funny ... more like earnest ... rosejm got it correct in post #17.

I've learned my lesson though ... gregr doesn't really want any help or advice ... he's got this all figured out ... he's the pro from Dover ... so I'm bowing out and will never darken his threads again.

Why he started this thread is still a mystery to me since he just disputes everything anybody posts ... oh well, I'll get over this in about 3 seconds.

 

[MrSmitty]

I have had an incredibly difficult time trying to get this Ruger M77 Mark II .30-06 rifle zeroed.

Just a quick bit of history, I bought the rile as an impulse purchase at the Indy 1500 YEARS ago. Didn`t know anything about centerfire rifles, but just thought it would be “cool” to have a .30-06 in the gun-safe. It`s the beautiful blonde laminate stock, with the Stainless Steel barrel. I put a Leupold Vari-X II 3x9 on top of it, and indeed, tucked it away into the gun safe. Over time as it just sat there, it ended up selling it to my Nephew for next to nothing. MUCH less than I had invested in it. As Indiana finally opened up white-tail deer hunting to centerfire rifles, I bought it back from him, and began my quest to zero it with a suitable .30-06 bullet.

My first trip to the range, I shot the Federal 165 grain Trophy Bonded Tip round, and it was an adventure. The rifle didn`t seem to group well at all. My targets looked more like they`d been hit with buckshot at 100 yards, and worse yet, when I tried to adjust the scope, it seemed to over correct, and I was shooting a LOT of very expensive premium ammo, and getting nowhere. On the drive home from the shooting range, I called Leupold and told the tech what I was experiencing, and he recommended sending the scope to them. I did that, and from the report they sent back with the scope, it seemed that they had replaced everything inside the scope except the lenses. I had the scope mounted again and sighted in off a bench, and the best I could do was about a 2 and ½ inch group at 100 yards. I was so frustrated. Someone I talked to said to check the action screws. I took the rifle to my gunsmith and he said the action screws were loose. So loose that they could easily be turned. I got the factory specs from Ruger and he attempted to torque them to factory specifications. He was unable to get the front action screw to the Ruger spec of 90 Inch pounds, so, I sent the freaking rifle to Ruger. They were gracious enough to allow me to send the rifle to them with my scope attached. The tech polished the crown, installed new action screws and did a few other things too, as well as shooting the rifle. He said he got approximately an inch group at 50 yards shooting a 180 grain bullet, and got approximately a ½ group at 50 yards shooting a 150 grain bullet. They shipped it back to me, and my hope and expectations were high.

I took the rifle to Deer Creek Shooting Range near Putnamville this morning. Invested a vacation day and another significant amount of premium and EXPENSIVE .30.06 ammo trying to zero this scope. I had finally gotten some Winchester Deer Season .30-06 ammo and was also shooting the Federal 165 grain ammo. I shot the Federal ammo first at 100 yards, and actually had a fairly respectable group just to the right of the bullseye at 100 yards. The 5-shot group was maybe an inch and a ¼, or inch and ½. I was happy and expectant. I then loaded the Winchester 150 grain rounds into the rifle and slowly squeezed off a 5-shot group and my heart sank. The target looked again like it had been hit with buckshot. I talked with the range officer, and he felt the barrel of the rifle, and said the barrel was HOT, and I needed to let the barrel cool down in-between shots. SO, I changed out my target, shot a 3-shot group allowing about 10 minutes between shots, and the shots were STILL all over the target, and whenever I tried to adjust the point of impact, the scope seemed to over adjust like before. The range office, who says he is a gunsmith, oscillated between placing the blame on the hot barrel, the scope, and then, the rifle itself when he tried to slide a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock and could not, saying the barrel needed to be “free-floated”. I called and talked with MY gunsmith on the drive home, and he said neither hot barrel NOR the barrel not being free-floated should be causing the problems I`m seeing.

I`ve contacted Leupold and they said sent the scope back and they`ll install it on a rifle and shoot it to see if the recoil causes an issue. (Still waiting on the shipper label they promised si I`m not paying for shipping back to them). I`ve contacted Ruger, and still waiting to hear back from them, but I`m really thinking this is a scope problem and that Leupold should have just warrantied the scope and given me a new one.


What the thoughts of the rifle/long range shooting experts here? Why am I having this ongoing, continual problem? In all honesty, I`ve lost ALLL confidence in this scope and rifle combination. No matter what resolution comes to this, (IF one ever does), I really don`t even want this rifle and scope anymore. I likely don`t have any choice but to figure this out and hunt with it, IF I can ever figure out the issue, but I don`t want it anymore. I don`t have the time or patience to deal with this. And with what ammo costs today, I don`t know HOW many HUNDREDS of dollars I`ve spent already, trying to zero this rifle. I`ve never in my life had so much trouble trying to get a freaking rifle zeroed.


I don`t believe for a second that this is an option, but just on the VERY, VERY OFF chance that it would be an option to buy a NEW rifle, what rifle in .30-06 would you experts recommend if I could just start over and get a new rifle? Neither Remington nor Browning are rifles I`d consider and Winchester would be my dream rifle, a Winchester Model 70. But besides the Winchester Model 70, what would your suggestions be for a good bolt-action rifle?


More than likely, I`ve just got to get this problem figured out, and I`m guessing the scope is the problem, I think Leupold should have just sent me a new scope the last time, but time will tell I suppose.


I`m just so mentally and emotionally exhausted by this seemingly endless problem with this stupid rifle and scope. And I can`t in good conscience even try to sell it to someone with the issues it has, yet, I have too much money wrapped up in it to lose it. What do you all think?

Sounds like the rifle prefers the 165 gr bullets, maybe try heavier weights, you said the 150's open up like a shotgun, so maybe try that, good luck, I'd love to have a Mark II in 30.06.......lol

 

[gregr]

Sounds like the rifle prefers the 165 gr bullets, maybe try heavier weights, you said the 150's open up like a shotgun, so maybe try that, good luck, I'd love to have a Mark II in 30.06.......lol

What I guess I`m not explaining well is that I shot one 5-shot group of the Federal 165 grain loads that wasn`t too bad of a group, but after that, whether I shot the 150 grain or the 165 grain rounds, they were all over the paper. There`s something else happening here. I`m thinking it`s the scope again, so it`s off to Leupold once again.

 

[DocIndy]

What I guess I`m not explaining well is that I shot one 5-shot group of the Federal 165 grain loads that wasn`t too bad of a group, but after that, whether I shot the 150 grain or the 165 grain rounds, they were all over the paper. There`s something else happening here. I`m thinking it`s the scope again, so it`s off to Leupold once again.

With all the talk of the scope, action screws etc…. Has your gunsmith looked at the barrel? Has it been throughly cleaned and is it free from copper fouling? I ask for one reason…. I had a coworker buy a 300 Win Mag and it wouldn’t group to save its life. He was ready to pull his hair out when a gunsmith looked at it and he found out the barrel was trashed. He thought about a new barrel for a half second, but ended up selling it off and bought a new rig that shot lights out with little effort.

 

[gregr]

With all the talk of the scope, action screws etc…. Has your gunsmith looked at the barrel? Has it been throughly cleaned and is it free from copper fouling? I ask for one reason…. I had a coworker buy a 300 Win Mag and it wouldn’t group to save its life. He was ready to pull his hair out when a gunsmith looked at it and he found out the barrel was trashed. He thought about a new barrel for a half second, but ended up selling it off and bought a new rig that shot lights out with little effort.

Yup, gunsmith scoped the barrel, said there`s no lead build up and no issues.

 

[Riflemen14]

Has anyone one else fired the rifle? Do they get same results? The hot barrel is a thing. Do try the 3 shots, with cool down time between each shot. Maybe even swabbing the barrel after each shot.

 

[sloughfoot]

Has anyone one else fired the rifle? Do they get same results? The hot barrel is a thing. Do try the 3 shots, with cool down time between each shot. Maybe even swabbing the barrel after each shot.

I dig what you are saying, but a rifle that won't hold one MOA for 10 shots fired every 4 seconds loses my interest pretty fast. In my experience group location changes with different bullet weights. but group size is acceptable for all. Or none.

 

[two70]

I`d be open to a Savage 110. I was kinda dreaming of a Winchester Model 70. What does a new Savage 110 go for?

Savage 110s run the gamut from around $500 to approaching a $1,000 depending on features. There are lots of used ones out there so you can probably find a decent deal if you look. As mentioned the barrels are easily changed too. However, if you really want a Model 70 then you can probably find a used one for not much more than what you can get out of the Ruger, especially in .30-06. There's also the XPR and the Model 670 (basically a cheaper Model 70) from Winchester which are both a bit cheaper.

Also, it should be noted that while everyone likes to talk and brag about group size, the internet is about the only place a 2 or even 3 MOA rifle won't easily kill a deer at 100 yards. Where the first shot from a cold barrel lands is far more important for a hunting rifle than where the next 1-4 land in relation to it.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

stop shooting 5 shot groups. its a hunting rifle with a standard contour barrell, not a bench rest competition bull barrell.
the heat build up is probably what's opening up your groups. I went through the same thing years ago when I started rifle shooting. my 30-06 would put first 3 shots under 2 inches. shots 4 and 5 would open group to 4-5 inches. switched scopes, but same results. then a couple experienced shooters told me about barrel heat changing POI. after that, I only shot 3 shot groups, and all was well. just my

Some Remington hunting rifles are notorious for this.

 

[gregr]

Savage 110s run the gamut from around $500 to approaching a $1,000 depending on features. There are lots of used ones out there so you can probably find a decent deal if you look. As mentioned the barrels are easily changed too. However, if you really want a Model 70 then you can probably find a used one for not much more than what you can get out of the Ruger, especially in .30-06. There's also the XPR and the Model 670 (basically a cheaper Model 70) from Winchester which are both a bit cheaper.

Also, it should be noted that while everyone likes to talk and brag about group size, the internet is about the only place a 2 or even 3 MOA rifle won't easily kill a deer at 100 yards. Where the first shot from a cold barrel lands is far more important for a hunting rifle than where the next 1-4 land in relation to it.

I`ve just shipped the scope back to Leupold this evening. If they say the scope isn`t the issue, then I`m really confused, because everything happened just like it did before I sent the scope to them the first time. The throwing the shots all over the target and not adjusting properly when I adjusted the scope. Even if it is the scope, I don`t know if I can ever have any confidence in this rifle and any scope on top of it now. Do you really think I might find a Winchester Model 70, (used), for a decent price? If I bought one used, how would I know the rifle is alright, and not shot out?

We`ll see how this goes with Leupold. The thing is, after I realized the barrel was hot, I let the rifle sit for 40 minutes until the barrel was cold, then shot slowly, waiting 5/6/7 minutes between shots until the barrel was cool again, and it continued to throw shots all over the target.

I`ll wait until I hear from Leupold, but After that, I may start checking with some gun shops about a Winchester 70 in .30-06.

 

[Ggreen]

Do you really think I might find a Winchester Model 70, (used), for a decent price? If I bought one used, how would I know the rifle is alright, and not shot out?

We`ll see how this goes with Leupold. The thing is, after I realized the barrel was hot, I let the rifle sit for 40 minutes until the barrel was cold, then shot slowly, waiting 5/6/7 minutes between shots until the barrel was cool again, and it continued to throw shots all over the target.

With all the options for a quality bolt gun you choose notoriously shoddy win 70... 500 will get you a brand new Mauser in 3006. Similar money puts you in a cz a bit more gets you a bergara. The handful of prebuyout model 70s that are worth more than scrap price are way over priced. With all the options in this golden age of bolt guns Winchester is bottom 10%

 

[gregr]

... 500 will get you a brand new Mauser in 3006.

I`ve read about Mauser as I`ve researched recently...$500 new????

But c`mon man, Winchester 70`s aren`t shoddy.

 

[two70]

I`ve just shipped the scope back to Leupold this evening. If they say the scope isn`t the issue, then I`m really confused, because everything happened just like it did before I sent the scope to them the first time. The throwing the shots all over the target and not adjusting properly when I adjusted the scope. Even if it is the scope, I don`t know if I can ever have any confidence in this rifle and any scope on top of it now. Do you really think I might find a Winchester Model 70, (used), for a decent price? If I bought one used, how would I know the rifle is alright, and not shot out?

We`ll see how this goes with Leupold. The thing is, after I realized the barrel was hot, I let the rifle sit for 40 minutes until the barrel was cold, then shot slowly, waiting 5/6/7 minutes between shots until the barrel was cool again, and it continued to throw shots all over the target.

I`ll wait until I hear from Leupold, but After that, I may start checking with some gun shops about a Winchester 70 in .30-06.

It depends on what exactly you're looking for in a Model 70. You won't find a collectible Pre 64' 70 for that price nor will you find a current controlled round feed Model 70 for that price. You can find push feed or what they call controlled round push feed Model 70s for under $600 and they are nice rifles, they just don't have the original Mauser style action that purists love. There are currently a couple Model 70's in .30-06 on Gunbroker for less than $500 though they both have plastic stocks(the Winchester plastic stocks are better than many). I've found the best times to shop for bolt guns are after hunting season and before elections when everyone is selling them off cheap to buy defensive firearms.

It takes more rounds of .30-06 than many will shoot in their lifetimes to shoot out a barrel and .30-06 is not a popular competition or frequent plinking round. Your chance of buying one with a shot out barrel is very small. Your chance of buying one that needs a good and thorough cleaning are pretty high though.

The bergara's are nice 700 clones but you are not likely to find one under $600, the only new Mausers that I've seen under $600 had cheap, plastic stocks that wouldn't be my first choice for a .30-06, and you likely won't touch a real CZ (a 550 as opposed to the cheapened 557) for less than $900. If you're married to a Mauser style action then a used, sporterized Mauser is your best bet in that price range.