If you're in a place being robbed?

[finity]

It isn't worth the possible jail time for me trying to be a hero if me or my family is not in direct danger!

Why would there be any jail time? You are protecting yourself or a third person from imminent threat of Serious Bodily Injury. According to the IC you are GTG.

It is COMPLETELY legal to kill a BG in an armed robbery to protect the clerk.

Keep in mind also, that you have taken the responsibility of altering the situation.

So?

YOU are not responsible for the situation that the robber put you in possibly forcing you to react to HIS initial actions.

Do you really think that you will be charged if the BG (or anybody else for that matter) is killed during HIS commision of a FORCIBLE FELONY because you chose to act?

 

[Pocketman]

It isn't worth the possible jail time for me trying to be a hero if me or my family is not in direct danger!

Why would there be any jail time? You are protecting yourself or a third person from imminent threat of Serious Bodily Injury. According to the IC you are GTG.

It is COMPLETELY legal to kill a BG in an armed robbery to protect the clerk.

These kinds of threads are mostly a lot of "what if" opinions by people who have never been in the situation, and never will be. Most armed robberies are just that - robberies. BG wants to get in and get out. As soon as anyone starts shooting, it gets ugly. If you've got the drop on the guy and decide to go for it, make sure his accomplice is standing behind you. How many rounds will the BG get off before going down? Keep in mind also, that you have taken the responsibility of altering the situation.

So?

YOU are not responsible for the situation that the robber put you in possibly forcing you to react to HIS initial actions.

Do you really think that you will be charged if the BG (or anybody else for that matter) is killed during HIS commision of a FORCIBLE FELONY because you chose to act?

In response to finity:
I am not questioning the right or need to protect yourself and your family, but this goes beyond what's legal and what isn't. Think of the different scenarios in an armed robbery, and if you feel confident all will result as you expect, blast away and accept the consequences.

Like I posted earlier, I have personal knowledge of both types of responses and their results. I stand behind my previous post.

 

[finity]

In response to finity:
I am not questioning the right or need to protect yourself and your family, but this goes beyond what's legal and what isn't. Think of the different scenarios in an armed robbery, and if you feel confident all will result as you expect, blast away and accept the consequences.

Like I posted earlier, I have personal knowledge of both types of responses and their results. I stand behind my previous post.

I don't promote either action or inaction.

You are right in that there is no way you will ever really know what the correct action (or inaction) to take. What if you don't act & someone (you or someone close to you) dies? What if you act & someone dies?

Act in the manner you feel will work out the best for you/others & just hope for the best. that's all you can do.

My only point is that as long as you acted reasonably, you SHOULD have nothing to fear from the law. You can't help or control a rogue prosecutor who has an agenda. You can't make intelligent decisions based on aberrations outside the norm.

Do what you feel is right & deal with the consequences...like you said.

 

[Pocketman]

...
Act in the manner you feel will work out the best for you/others & just hope for the best. that's all you can do. ...

These mental exercises are good though, so one doesn't have to start at square one should they find themselves in such a situation.

 

[CTC B4Z]

For those of you carrying unchambered, this is also what you have to think about. When are you really going to have time to chamber that round?... Are you going to cough really loud and hope the sound doesnt draw attention?

 

[patience0830]

reminds me of somebody

These mental exercises are good though, so one doesn't have to start at square one should they find themselves in such a situation.

Someones signature line about, "the body not being able to go where the mind hasn't been", comes to mind.

 

[thedarkjester]

As of July 1st you can bring your gun to work and leave it locked in your car. Unless you work at a school




House Bill 1065


[SIZE=+1]ARCHIVE (2010)[/SIZE]
Latest Information

DIGEST OF HB 1065 (Updated March 4, 2010 9:28 pm - DI 69)​

Various provisions concerning firearms. Prohibits a person, including an individual, a corporation, and a governmental entity, from adopting or enforcing a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting an employee of the person, including a contract employee, from legally possessing a firearm or ammunition that is locked in the trunk of the employee's vehicle, kept in the glove compartment of the employee's locked vehicle, or stored out of sight in the employee's locked vehicle while the vehicle is in or on the person's property, unless the firearm or ammunition requires a certain federal license to possess. Exempts possession of a firearm or ammunition: (1) on school property, on property used by a school for a school function, or on a school bus; (2) on certain child care and shelter facility property; (3) on penal facility property; (4) in violation of federal law; (5) on property belonging to an approved postsecondary educational institution; (6) on the property of a domestic violence shelter; (7) at a person's residence; (8) on the property of a person that is subject to the United States Department of Homeland Security's Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards and licensed by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission; (9) on property owned by a public utility that generates and transmits electric power or a department of public utilities; and (10) in an employee's personal vehicle if the employee is a direct support professional who uses the employee's personal vehicle while transporting an individual with developmental disabilities. Provides that a court does not have jurisdiction over an action that: (1) is brought against an employer who is in compliance with the prohibition against adoption or enforcement of a policy or rule that prohibits the possession of a firearm in a locked vehicle; and (2) is brought to recover for any injury or damage resulting from the employer's compliance. Authorizes a person harmed by a violation to bring a civil action for damages, costs, attorney's fees, and injunctive relief to remedy a violation. Prohibits the state, a political subdivision, or any other person from prohibiting or restricting the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transportation, storage, display, or use of firearms or ammunition during a declared disaster emergency, energy emergency, or local disaster emergency, subject to exceptions that apply to the prohibition against adoption or enforcement of a policy or rule that prohibits the possession of a firearm in a locked vehicle. Repeals provisions that allow certain political subdivisions to adopt emergency ordinances to regulate firearms if a local disaster emergency has been declared. Deletes an outdated reference.Current Status:

Law EnactedLatest Printing (PDF)

• Action List
• Introduced Bill
• Fiscal Impact Statement(s): 1(PDF), 2(PDF), 3(PDF), 4(PDF), 5(PDF), 6(PDF), 7(PDF), 8(PDF), 9(PDF)
• Roll Call(s): No. 57(PDF), No. 58(PDF), No. 69(PDF), No. 175(PDF), No. 188(PDF), No. 272(PDF), No. 294(PDF), No. 6905(PDF), No. 7015(PDF)
• Indiana Code Citations Affected<LI sizset="1" sizcache="1">House Committee Reports
  • Filed Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF)
  • Passed Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF)
  <LI sizset="2" sizcache="1">House Amendments
  • Filed: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF), 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF), 1065-3, 1065-3(PDF), 1065-4, 1065-4(PDF), 1065-5, 1065-5(PDF), 1065-6, 1065-6(PDF), 1065-7, 1065-7(PDF), 1065-8, 1065-8(PDF), 1065-9, 1065-9(PDF), 1065-D(PDF), 1065-D
  • Passed: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF), 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
• House Bill<LI sizset="3" sizcache="1">Senate Committee Reports
  • Filed Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF)
  • Passed Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF)
  <LI sizset="4" sizcache="1">Senate Amendments
  • Filed: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF), 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF), 1065-3, 1065-3(PDF), 1065-4, 1065-4(PDF), 1065-5, 1065-5(PDF), 1065-6, 1065-6(PDF), 1065-7, 1065-7(PDF), 1065-8, 1065-8(PDF), 1065-9, 1065-9(PDF)
  • Passed: 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
• Engrossed Bill<LI sizset="5" sizcache="1">Conference Committee Reports
  • Filed Senate Conference Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF), 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
  • Passed Senate Conference Committee Reports: 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
  • Filed House Conference Committee Reports: 1065-1, 1065-1(PDF), 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
  • Passed House Conference Committee Reports: 1065-2, 1065-2(PDF)
• Enrolled Act

Such a shame that this new law doesn't apply under my current employer, since they fall under some of the exemptions: having dangerous chemicals stored & used on site along with a daycare for preschool kids (< 5 yrs old). Such a shame, since its inside MY vehicle....and yet, under employment terms, is subjected to search when they feel the need to.....what fun!

 

[Sylvain]

Im not a cop, IMO the safest thing would be to wait until the robber leave the store with the cash he asked.No need to get killed or having the clerk killed by opening fire escpecialy if other custumers are in the store.
The police will catch the guy later, that's not my job to prevent crime.
If the robber is armed with a knife I may just point my gun at him and tell him to drop it and leave or drop it and stay here until the police gets here.
If the robber starts shooting at the clerk, myself or other custumers that's anothe story.
It's just depends on so many things.
And no matter how much you think about different scenarios you may just freeze when that happen.

 

[buckstopshere]

I had a friend who played hero about fifteen years ago. He was in Don's when there was still a location in Greenwood. A BG came in and robbed the place. Steve pulled his gun and didn't realize that the BG's brother was outside with a shot gun. He saw Steve, flung open the door and filled him with buckshot. He died at the scene. I was 15 when that happened so this type of scenario has been in my mind ever since. Situational awareness was a big factor in his life being taken. He clearly never thought about a BG outside and he didn't have cover.

Unless the BG has left me with no option, he's walking out with cash and me and mine's are walking out with our lives.

 

[patton487]

Well, in your scenario I'm in the back of a convenience store. And almost every convenience store has locking restrooms in the back. So I'm grabbing any family members and locking all of us in the bathroom until it's over.

Sorry, not getting shot over someone else money...

 

[Woodrow]

First, I would call the police, then I would ask if the BG's gun was legal. If it wasn't (and it probably wouldn't be), I would perform a citizen's arrest because the BG was using a firearm during the commission of a crime. No brainer.

 

[longbow]

depends................

 

[GunGirl2020]

First thought. Call 911 from cell phone??

 

[RichardR]

First thought. Call 911 from cell phone??

Wouldn't had been my first thought.

After shooting the armed robbers in the back of their head then yea I might get my cell phone out of my pocket, but that'd really be so I could take a few photos of the entry/exit wounds for the guys on AR15 who would undoubtedly say "pic's or it didn't happen!"

After I took some pics as proof it happened & refilled my coffee & microwaved myself a frozen breakfast burrito & maybe after I had called my attorney I might dial 911.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Calling 911 first? No. The last thing I want is one or more BGs holed up with hostages because there was a cop 100 feet away at just the wrong time and who came in lights and sirens blazing.

I'm with Richard. I'm generally pretty aware of who's with whom and who's communiating. First thing I'm going to do is scan for a second possible shooter. Next is one to the back of the BG's head. Everyone else sucks ground until police arrive. No one in, no one out. I'll be on the phone with 911 untill police arrive. Then and only then will I be disarmed, or anyone else armed.

 

[LLDJR]

If my life was in danger yes,

 

[PeterJLH09]

I carry all the time except while at work, and that is about to change due to a job change, and have considered many times what my response would be in this type of situation. I would agree with most on here that my responsiblity is to my family/wife. If some BG wants $300-500, he can have it. It's not worth endangering the lives of those around me with a possible firefight. I would, however, be fully aware of the situation, other shooters, and lines of fire. My hand would probably be close to my gun, and I would do everything I could to get sufficient cover.

Once the first shot is fired, though, the dynamics change. If it were fired into someone, I would drop the BG like a sack of potatos. Gun stays ready till LE arrives.

My goal is to preserve life, not endanger it.

 

[grizman]

Wouldn't had been my first thought.

After shooting the armed robbers in the back of their head then yea I might get my cell phone out of my pocket, but that'd really be so I could take a few photos of the entry/exit wounds for the guys on AR15 who would undoubtedly say "pic's or it didn't happen!"

After I took some pics as proof it happened & refilled my coffee & microwaved myself a frozen breakfast burrito & maybe after I had called my attorney I might dial 911.

Calling 911 first? No. The last thing I want is one or more BGs holed up with hostages because there was a cop 100 feet away at just the wrong time and who came in lights and sirens blazing.

I'm with Richard. I'm generally pretty aware of who's with whom and who's communicating. First thing I'm going to do is scan for a second possible shooter. Next is one to the back of the BG's head. Everyone else sucks ground until police arrive. No one in, no one out. I'll be on the phone with 911 until police arrive. Then and only then will I be disarmed, or anyone else armed.

Here comes my brutally honest opinion!! Fasten your seat belts it could get bumpy!

I am sick and tired of the "roll over and play dead" mentality! If people would grow some balls and show some backbone again crime would drop quickly! All this be a good witness, don't do anything that might make it worse answers all say the same thing. That is as follows, "I am to afraid, poorly trained and lacking the practice to do anything without making a bad situation worse!",typical sheeple response!
This PC crap and the criminal rights pukes have turned this country into a nation of chicken sh*t cowards! I am here to say I do not roll over nor do I play dead!
Yeah I know this is harsh and cuts deep it is supposed to make everyone think! This nation was not made to be great by the police or the government and it will never be cleaned up the them either. Only when the people say enough and do something about it will it get better. Criminals need to fear us not we fear the criminals. We don't have be vigilantes just stop being willing scared little girl victims!

 

[JetGirl]

Here comes my brutally honest opinion!! Fasten your seat belts it could get bumpy!

I am sick and tired of the "roll over and play dead" mentality! If people would grow some balls and show some backbone again crime would drop quickly! All this be a good witness, don't do anything that might make it worse answers all say the same thing. That is as follows, "I am to afraid, poorly trained and lacking the practice to do anything without making a bad situation worse!",typical sheeple response!
This PC crap and the criminal rights pukes have turned this country into a nation of chicken sh*t cowards! I am here to say I do not roll over nor do I play dead!
Yeah I know this is harsh and cuts deep it is supposed to make everyone think! This nation was not made to be great by the police or the government and it will never be cleaned up the them either. Only when the people say enough and do something about it will it get better. Criminals need to fear us not we fear the criminals. We don't have be vigilantes just stop being willing scared little girl victims!

Sorry...but in the scenario that I posted about what happened (or seemed to be happening) at the bank with my kid in tow...it reinforced what's most important to me; and that's going home at the end of the day to my family.
Me and mine ...that's gonna trump sticking my neck out for a "stranger in a store/bank/restaurant/gas station" any day. And twice on Sunday. You want brutal honesty? Well, there's mine.

 

[printcraft]

depends................

I agree, they could come in handy when I crap my pants.